Would you take it? (Given a choice)

[Apotheosis]

[I posted this on another forum; interested to know what others think?]

This is a question I was asked by a researcher; at the end of an hour & a half interview about my "illness" & the ways I coped with it, as part of a research project into different ways people recover.

Question - "If a perfect drug was developed which had no side effects & totally removed all the "symptoms" of mental illness. That when you took it you were as "normal" as anyone else - would you take it?"

I would add - If science & medicine advanced to such a stage - that it could be known that you had the potential to be "ill" & such a drug administered, so that you would experience nothing of what you would have otherwise; there would be no effects of "mental illness" - then would you take it? Would that be a good thing?

 

[ms_P]

But it wouldn't change my destiny, it wouldn't change my "luck". I would end up as perfectly well-adjusted road kill (?).

"I" am everything that lead up to this moment. Would I lose myself?

I suppose I might try that medicine...if only to see what I've been missing. I may stop taking it realizing I wasn't so "mad" after all.

To take this medicine now at age 47? The hardest pill to swallow, is knowing one's dreams have slipped away and it's too late baby now, it's too late...or is it?

I can't answer this question, Apo.

 

[jokker]

Yea a drug without a addiction ?

What about a food is a drug ?

Do you know what a drug is after all ?
Somehow there is no in this nature ... a drug without a addiction element .. a drug as u mean.


Do you know that you body is all about a control ... Pretty much all is about control and balance. Machines ... processes ...

And if u ll change the process the yea you will feel difference and you will want more difference if this is difference is good for ya.


If there were drug like this. Drug with "hie" element .. Then yea ill take it.
Something like LSD with out addiction will be welcome for me.
Btw ? what about weed ... what about addiction ? how it shown up.

 

[Twylight]

Yes, I definitly would take it - it would be great not to fall asleep in the daytime and get back to work

 

[blackdog]

Immediately I'm tempted to say yes I would take it. But on reflection I would be taking it to stop my suffering affecting my family mainly, but as Mrs P says who I am is the sum of my experiences.

On the same sort of theme my CPN asked me a while ago how I would feel about recovering totaly from depression and I had to admit to her and myself that the idea scared me because I didn't know who I would become. Sad but true.


Good question apotheosis.

 

[ramboghettouk]

Or to put it another way, if they found a gene for schitsoprenia then the next day developed a way of altering my genetic make up in order to corect that gene, say a retrovirus so i went to bed with the flu for a day and next day my genetic make up had altered, i like science fiction

At 50 you can't just put a past like that behind you, the benefit system is getting bad as it is without me been called cured

I think even with the perfect meds, my neurons have hardwired a certain way, i don't know if i'd include that in illness, were does personality start and illness take over, this is a personality illness after all

 

[ramboghettouk]

The whole question asumes that schitsoprenia is a chemical imbalance and therefore can be corrected chemiically, i believe there may be some chemical side but it's not the only thing.

The idea is nasty because it allows people like psychiatrists to ignore social issues

It's also dangerous when people are asssumed by psychiatrists to be well enough to work on meds when in fact the meds make them tired etc, a psychiatrist just isn't likely to give a supportive benefit reference to someone they beleive is stabilised on meds and in my time that argument has been used, when i've worked it's another story from those i work with

 

[spiritual_emergency]

This is like that question, "Would you go back to a certain age (i.e. 16 or 21) if you could?" I wouldn't want to do so unless I could retain the knowledge I have as a result of having lived beyond those ages.

If, by some fantastic stroke of magic, I actually could return to that age and retain all the knowledge I have now, I'd be no fun to hang out with. Instead, I'd be the one constantly cautioning my peers to not do the sorts of things people do at those ages and giving them lectures for doing so as if I was old enough to be their mother. They'd dump me quick in favor of someone who didn't mind letting their hair down. As a result, I wouldn't have any friends and I wouldn't have the opportunity to re-do any of the things that made that age so enjoyable to me I'd want to re-experience those things. Except I wouldn't get that. What I'd get instead would be a completely different life with aspects I didn't see coming anymore than before. I imagine I'd find that new life would have its own challenges, struggles, heartbreaks, disappointments and also those moments that take your breath away -- when you're glad to be human.

Still, for the sake of indulgence... I'd probably take half the pill because there's at least half that I'd like to have never happened. But I'd want final say in regard to which half would go away! There are some parts I'd certainly want to keep.

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[spiritual_emergency]

ramboghettouk: It's also dangerous when people are asssumed by psychiatrists to be well enough to work on meds when in fact the meds make them tired etc, a psychiatrist just isn't likely to give a supportive benefit reference to someone they beleive is stabilised on meds and in my time that argument has been used...

I've noticed that often, when people are given meds for the first time, other people in the room are equally distressed and could probably benefit from some meds too. What's more, I'm a generous person so I think we should implement a new "One For Me and One For You" medication policy. If you take a pill, your doc and nurses take a pill. It's that simple. I see no reason why this gesture of good will and generosity couldn't be shared with select government officials as well.

If, after playing "One For Me and One For You" for any sustained period of time, the doctors, nurses and government officials are finding they can't keep up with their regular duties or they can't tolerate the side effects of the medication... I guess they might realize that "schizophrenics" aren't the only ones lacking insight. Everyone wins!

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[ramboghettouk]

In my time i've beeen assumed to be stabilised on the perfect med, turned out when i worked it was crap

Rethink were trying to get me to take ability i said i remember when depixol was the latest drug and we were alll going to lead normal lifes on it

I don't know much about epilepsy and diabetes the other illnesses i've had compared, i think there is a box to tick on the benefit form for insulin dependent diabetes

 

[Roger Waldram]

"If a perfect drug was developed which had no side effects & totally removed all the "symptoms" of mental illness. That when you took it you were as "normal" as anyone else - would you take it?"
My short answer is 'No' since that would take away part of who I am today & I am 'OK' with all my lack of 'normal' whatever that is! I take the view from a research participant that 'Mental illness is 'rowlocks' it's life that screws you up!'. (I'm just in the process of completing my thesis comparing 'Madness' & 'Spirituality' & the implications for psychotherapy practice. Or, more accurately avoiding the process!).
SE, I like the idea of doctors trying medication first. When 20 I had to have Largactil & ECT that I hated, & would have loved to have seen any medic volunteer for ECT! My experience as an insulin-dependant diabetic who thought he was manic-depressive when 20 BUT the diagnosis was actually schizophrenia, is there are NO similarities! That is all part of medical model mythology.
As a PS, neural templates, patterns or whatever we call them are not 'set in stone' the brain has the quality of plasticity-it's changing all the time. Mine as I write this & yours as you read it & the good news is that through good, healthy relationship, support & choosing a 'meta-narrative' or story that suits us better we can become who we want to be.
One story is you're depressed, psychotic, schizophrenic, bipolar etc & need to take medication to be 'normal'. Another story (from Jung) is that our soul daemon (guide) speaks to us through our symptoms, perhaps voices are about vocation & with a good companion we can choose a healthier path. Another story from neuroscience (Cozolino) is that through healthy 'synapses' (relationship with people, dogs, cats, group, football team, ritual, etc., etc..) we can 'kindle' a healthy developmental crucible & choose to change, if we wish.
However, I think my 'deflection' (avoidance) of completion must be genetic!
All the best,
Roger

 

[Apotheosis]

My short answer is 'No' since that would take away part of who I am today & I am 'OK' with all my lack of 'normal' whatever that is! I take the view from a research participant that 'Mental illness is 'rowlocks' it's life that screws you up!'. (I'm just in the process of completing my thesis comparing 'Madness' & 'Spirituality' & the implications for psychotherapy practice. Or, more accurately avoiding the process!).

I answered No too, in the interview, for the same reasons.

 

[bigpharma]

I always knew that all those drugs I was prescribed where dangerous. Picture your average 17yr old lad, confused, angry AND frustrated, depressed probably. A could kick up the preverbial, maybe get laid? No son, here is a magic drug. You won't feel depressed. it's been proven! by clinical trials! what clinical trials? by scientists! who pays for the clinical trials? the pharmaceiutical industry! yeah, but in the 50's they gave people LSD. "we've made a lot of advancements since then!

Take an antidepressant drug and mask the problem, get rid of the symptoms. Now you think there isnt a problem. Your body being 3 billion years / mother nature, whatever, in the making as it is, builds a resistance to the poisin / drug. You need more to achieve the same effect. In the mean time the cause of ther problem has not been addressed, and that gets worse too. This will go on until the point whereby you would not be achieving your natural state even when the drug is in full swing, not that you would realise because the process is so slow. Stop taking the drug, and now you will feel the oposite effect the drug had, maybe not even consciously. That coulpled with the worsened problem you started with and you'll be a right mess. So, they'll try different drugs. Very hit and miss it seemed to me at the time. Years later and I realise that I have done some terrible things, things I would not have normally done, things I can not talk about with many people.

I am now very successful socially and professionally, and before I say what I'm going to say, Id like to point out that I try to take responsibility for my own mistakes, avoiding pointing the finger of blame where possible.

The pharmacautical industry is very powerful, it virtually runs the NHS, and has insideious tenticles streaching through the media and everywhere it seems. It makes humungous amounts of money. I am not saying some drugs do not save lives, I am saying they justify and sell drugs. Justified by so called 'clinical trials', paid for by the pharmacuetical industry itself. A massive 90% of turnover is spent on marketing! On top of this, there is a culture where we treat symptoms rather than the cause of the problem. If we cough, the cough itself is not the problem. It may be uncomfortable, but it is a symptom, and natures way of dispelling stuff from our lungs. Remove the cough, and the stuff stays put. Pain itself is a mechanism, a warning. Dont walk on that leg for example. Imagine taping over the oil warning light in your car! Im not saying its not kind to use it in some cases. It's also a trigger for who knows how many chemical mechanisms for recovery. Ever wonder how all the so called 'experts' on child birth are male? We are far to arrogant for our own good. We put rabbits in australia, and they er.. bred, so we introduced foxes, strangely they did really well.. it should be made into a nursey ryhme!

 

[Pipa]

No, I would not take it. As someone who experienced MH difficulties for the majority of her adult life (so far!), I'm glad that I got help from a fabulous counsellor who helped me deal with my issues that led to me being depressed. It might sound strange, but I wish I had the contentment and insight that I now have without having to go through all the crap that I did, but I truly believe that I am only where I am BECAUSE of it. Sometimes we need to go through the bad times to experience the good times, and while that may sound like a cliche, I don't say it lightly. I've had some really dark times and I know I will not go back there. Would I feel the same satisfaction if I'd taken a pill? - prob not, as its the journey, not the destination that holds the biggest reward

 

[skitzware]

Its a bit like the film, The Matrix.
Take the blue or red pill...

I dunno what I'd do

 

[bigpharma]

No, I would not take it. As someone who experienced MH difficulties for the majority of her adult life (so far!), I'm glad that I got help from a fabulous counsellor who helped me deal with my issues that led to me being depressed. It might sound strange, but I wish I had the contentment and insight that I now have without having to go through all the crap that I did, but I truly believe that I am only where I am BECAUSE of it. Sometimes we need to go through the bad times to experience the good times, and while that may sound like a cliche, I don't say it lightly. I've had some really dark times and I know I will not go back there. Would I feel the same satisfaction if I'd taken a pill? - prob not, as its the journey, not the destination that holds the biggest reward

all the more stonger for it, I love to hear of other people who are all the more stronger for their life expereiences, there is nothing more satisfying. the couselors i spke to where the most possitive aspect to anything offered, they where human, and i love them for it

 

[ramboghettouk]

Some people like me don't have the resources for anything but drugs given the choice, i haven't been given that choice

I also feel annoyed when people lecture me on the evils of drugs, when unlike me they have the resources for alternatives, one mind guy was on about ideal worlds well he unlike me has the money to live in such an ideal world

By the way i even managed to be chucked out of socialist worker, they said i was sexist for chatting up the women

 

[Achlys]

red or blue pill

Its a bit like the film, The Matrix.
Take the blue or red pill...

I dunno what I'd do

Give me the red pill and let Kansas go bye-bye! In a heartbeat.

Perhaps alot of who I am is because of what ive experienced. But I wouldnt need time to weigh any of that up to know my decision.

 

[Bluemoon]

I think I would take it, at 30 I just want this illness to be over so I can get on and live my life to the full. I want the best chance of finding my soul mate as well and even having children - which, because of my current state of mind and circumstances, doesn't seem likely to happen. Not in this village where I live anyway. Also, because I know my situation is hurting my parents and my brother and taking such a pill would end that too.

However. . .

It's a bit like that scene in Total Recall where that doctor gives Arnold Swartzathingy's character a pill to give him an escape from his "situation". If I see a bead of sweat rolling down the doc's face as he gives me such a pill, I'll make sure to spit it back out - but unlike Arnie - I won't try to put a hole in his head for his trouble .

 

[Apotheosis]

It's a bit like that scene in Total Recall where that doctor gives Arnold Swartzathingy's character a pill to give him an escape from his "situation". If I see a bead of sweat rolling down the doc's face as he gives me such a pill, I'll make sure to spit it back out - but unlike Arnie - I won't try to put a hole in his head for his trouble .

Cool film, has to be a favourite - & one of the best scenes - "The Walls of Reality shall come crashing down"