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Why is neuroticism associated with narcissism?

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LogicOverEmotion140

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I don't understand why neuroticism is associated with narcissism. There's this mental disorder called Covert Narcissism that I don't even how possibly it can exist given its contradictory symptoms.

Symptoms of Neuroticism include shyness, depression, pessimism, sadness, and lack of resilience while symptoms of Narcissism include grandiose sense of pride and a lack of empathy.

Seriously, this is like saying that those socially awkward misfits who were bullied in school are narcissistic persons themselves.

This article on the internet say that shy socially awkward misfits are narcissistic and aren't true introverts. This article also says that real introverts are only those who aren't totally hermits(full blown introverts) and are actually social butterflies themselves.


Seriously, this article supposed created by scientists is just one big pile of contradictions.

So what do you think?
 
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ManDss

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Maybe is because says "covert narcicists" are " hurt easily by the slightest remark of others", thats a very neurotic trait, and the "seek of social attention" is a very narcicist trait.

So its a person who gets hurt by other people opinions and social interaction (neurotic), and seek attention focused on itself (narcissist).
 
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ManDss

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Just found an article from the same site u posted, "23 Signs You're Secretly a Narcissist Masquerading as a Sensitive Introvert", gonna read it later but I guess there is the answer.
 
jajingna

jajingna

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Surely a narcissist is often neurotic. Emotionally needy, vain or self-important. Many people are neurotic of course, not just narcissists. They're just one type out of many types of neurotic people.
 
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LogicOverEmotion140

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Surely a narcissist is often neurotic. Emotionally needy, vain or self-important. Many people are neurotic of course, not just narcissists. They're just one type out of many types of neurotic people.
Neurotic peoples are socially awkward shy loners with low self esteem while narcissists are hypersocial excessively prideful individuals.

Now explain to me how can a narcissists be neurotic. To me, examples of narcissists are arrogant athletes, bully business managers, and abusive callous domineering business CEOs. How the hell are those type of people shy and socially awkward? You're telling me that the socially awkward shy loner kid who was bullied throughout school is narcissistic? Can you explain
 
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jajingna

jajingna

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I believe all sorts of people are neurotic. What is neurotic anyway? Prone to worry a lot? Nervous or anxious? What about concerned with what others think? The narcissist and the socially anxious person have that in common. They both seek approval. The socially anxious type wants to be reassured that things are OK, that he is accepted by others. And the narcissist would like others to have a high opinion of him, but he might claim to not care what others think. Just about everybody cares what others think. We are social creatures and survival means depending on others. They are different types, but I think both types are neurotic and dysfunctional.
 
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ManDss

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Neurotic peoples are socially awkward shy loners with low self esteem while narcissists are hypersocial excessively prideful individuals.

Now explain to me how can a narcissists be neurotic. To me, examples of narcissists are arrogant athletes, bully business managers, and abusive callous domineering business CEOs. How the hell are those type of people shy and socially awkward? You're telling me that the socially awkward shy loner kid who was bullied throughout school is narcissistic? Can you explain
Narcicism not only means that kind of narcicist, in a general way narcicism just means when a person focussed on itself. So if a person is constantly seeking attention, thinking only on his problems, thats a narcicist traits, and if get hurts by other people opinions, thinks everyone is against him, feels infirior, thats a neurotic trait.

In psychoanalisis a psychotic paranoic is a narcisit, because is focusing his attention on himself, all is being focused to him, and all the things happening are refering to him, "they are looking at me, they are chasing me", the attention goes towards him, thats narcicism.
 
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LogicOverEmotion140

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I believe all sorts of people are neurotic. What is neurotic anyway? Prone to worry a lot? Nervous or anxious? What about concerned with what others think? The narcissist and the socially anxious person have that in common. They both seek approval. The socially anxious type wants to be reassured that things are OK, that he is accepted by others. And the narcissist would like others to have a high opinion of him, but he might claim to not care what others think. Just about everybody cares what others think. We are social creatures and survival means depending on others. They are different types, but I think both types are neurotic and dysfunctional.
What? You're telling me that social anxiety aka being worried about what others think of you is the same as narcissism aka always wanting others to have a high opinion of you and thinking you're better than others?

The neurotic has low self esteem while the narcissists has excessive self esteem. Now explain how they're the same again.
 
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LogicOverEmotion140

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Narcicism not only means that kind of narcicist, in a general way narcicism just means when a person focussed on itself. So if a person is constantly seeking attention, thinking only on his problems, thats a narcicist traits, and if get hurts by other people opinions, thinks everyone is against him, feels infirior, thats a neurotic trait.

In psychoanalisis a psychotic paranoic is a narcisit, because is focusing his attention on himself, all is being focused to him, and all the things happening are refering to him, "they are looking at me, they are chasing me", the attention goes towards him, thats narcicism.
A plain neurotic person does not aim to look like a star in front of others because a neurotic just wants to be seen as normal by others so he won't be bullied. All normal social people want to be seen as normal by others. I mean who doesn't wanna? Who wants to be bullied and ostracized by looking different and eccentric?

Narcissists on the other hand want to stand out by looking like awesome celebrity stars in front of others and not just plain ordinary.

Narcissists want to stand out as legendary individuals while neurotics just want to fit in for fear of being ostracized and bullied. Narcissists want glory while neurotics fear bullying. That's the difference.

Also, neurotics have low self esteem while narcissists have excessive self esteem.

An example of neurotics would be socially awkward shy loners. A socially awkward loner does not want to be seen as awesome in front of others. He is shy because he is worried about what others think of him while he tries to communicate with others which is why he avoids social interaction but that doesn't mean he wants to be seen as awesome. He just wants to fit in so he won't be bullied. Him being socially awkward also means that he is unaware and does not care how he looks like in front of others which to be honest is not a narcissistic trait.

All normal social people except socially awkward introverts are always self aware of how they look in front of others. This is why social normal people compared to hermits/introverts are not socially awkward like loners cause they are self aware of themselves on how they look like in front of others and work hard on their social skills while introverts are awkward.

By your own logic, we can pretty much say that every single normal non-socially awkward person in the whole world is neurotic(cause you said, a neurotic are self aware on how he looks like in front of others).

Now explain that.
 
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ManDss

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Narcissists on the other hand want to stand out by looking like awesome celebrity stars in front of others and not just plain ordinary.

Narcissists want to stand out as legendary individuals

Also, neurotics have low self esteem while narcissists have excessive self esteem.
Have high self steem or want to be seen as a star is not whats necesary for a person to be considered a narcissit.

You are taking 1 kind of narcissits personality and applying it to all types of narcissits.

Narcissits is like citrus fruits, there is more than only oranges. Citrus are citrud because because contain citric acid, narcisists are narcissits because focouse their attention (libido in psychoanalisis).

So if you have a person who have self steem thats a neurotic treat, and if that person is constantly trying to get the attention of other people thats a narcissistic treat.

Read the article "23 Signs You're Secretly a Narcissist Masquerading as a Sensitive Introvert". Dont kill the messanger.
 
jajingna

jajingna

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What? You're telling me that social anxiety aka being worried about what others think of you is the same as narcissism aka always wanting others to have a high opinion of you and thinking you're better than others?

The neurotic has low self esteem while the narcissists has excessive self esteem. Now explain how they're the same again.
No, a socially anxious anxious person is not the same as a narcissist. I just think both types of people can be neurotic. I don't think narcissists have high self-esteem though. Some might. But a person who has high self-esteem is confident and doesn't need to be narcissistic. Unless it's a disorder I guess. I looked up a little about it, and there are apparently different types of narcissists. So, maybe some are more neurotic than others. The main thing is that none of them are really healthy, with a good self-image or good quality relationships. They are often disliked. And I doubt there is much high self-esteem or confidence to be found in them. Arrogance is not confidence. It's a compensatory show for feelings of inferiority. And feeling that you're better than others is basically delusional.
 
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LogicOverEmotion140

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Have high self steem or want to be seen as a star is not whats necesary for a person to be considered a narcissit.

You are taking 1 kind of narcissits personality and applying it to all types of narcissits.

Narcissits is like citrus fruits, there is more than only oranges. Citrus are citrud because because contain citric acid, narcisists are narcissits because focouse their attention (libido in psychoanalisis).

So if you have a person who have self steem thats a neurotic treat, and if that person is constantly trying to get the attention of other people thats a narcissistic treat.

Read the article "23 Signs You're Secretly a Narcissist Masquerading as a Sensitive Introvert". Dont kill the messanger.
Neurotics do not want to get attention. They just don't wanna stand out like most normal social people for fear of being bullied and ostracized! Enough said.
 
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LogicOverEmotion140

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No, a socially anxious anxious person is not the same as a narcissist. I just think both types of people can be neurotic. I don't think narcissists have high self-esteem though. Some might. But a person who has high self-esteem is confident and doesn't need to be narcissistic. Unless it's a disorder I guess. I looked up a little about it, and there are apparently different types of narcissists. So, maybe some are more neurotic than others. The main thing is that none of them are really healthy, with a good self-image or good quality relationships. They are often disliked. And I doubt there is much high self-esteem or confidence to be found in them. Arrogance is not confidence. It's a compensatory show for feelings of inferiority. And feeling that you're better than others is basically delusional.
So you're saying to me that that bullied socially awkward shy loner (neurotic) wants to stand out and be praised by others and is arrogant? What the hell are you talking about?

And who then hell told you that most narcissists have low self esteem and are disliked? What planet are you living in? The most famous definition of narcissism is having a grandiose sense of pride. So again, what makes you think that most narcissists have low self esteem? Nonsense! The fact is that most of them are excessively prideful. There's a reason why the most famous definition of narcissism is having a grandiose sense of pride. People disliking narcissists also doesn't deter the narcissists from having a grandiose sense of pride cause again, he's a narcissists! He may want others to admire him but others disliking him still doesn't stop his excessive pride cause real narcissists blame others due to their excessive pride.

And who also told you that most arrogant narcissistic people are disliked? You're making a huge baseless assumption. You want me to give you an example of narcissistic arrogant people who are still well liked? That would be popular highschool bully star athletes. These immature arrogant bullies look down on and bully misfits in school due to their excessive arrogance and pride. Their excessive arrogance and pride stem from them being star athletes. Are they disliked? Of course not! The whole school especially the girls love them. The teachers think of them as highschool heroes. These arrogant peoples chose to be athletes because they know that athleticism will gain them popularity in the same way that narcissists participate in activities that they think will make them stand out as amazing exceptional people. And yes, these arrogant highschool bully athletes obviously exist.

So again, how can you say that most narcissists are disliked?

You seem to be saying that the bullied socially awkward shy introverted loner misfit(neurotic) is actually more of a narcissist compared to the arrogant popular highschool star athlete bully. Like what the hell?
 
jajingna

jajingna

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All right, you win. Look, I'm not really interested in all this. You're like in attack mode here, and I'm not sure what that is about.

"What the hell are you talking about?" and "What planet are you living on?" are just aggressive putdowns. You don't like an opinion, so you get upset and put the other person down.

I wonder a bit about your reading comprehension skills actually. (That's me being aggressive and putting you down. )

I say something like, "I think (an opinion) that both socially awkward people and narcissists can be neurotic."

You reply, "So you are saying socially awkward people have a high opinion of themselves? What the hell? That is obviously not true."

It seems that you are getting worked up over a discussion involving opinions. Take it easy. I don't know much about narcissism.

If you're interested in being right, fine. I don't mind, believe what you want.
 
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