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What to do about my daughter.

W

Wasatch Rebel

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My daughter has been officially diagnosed as having sever Generalized Anxiety Disorder and severe Social Anxiety Disorder. However, after I posted about her symptoms in the Anxiety Forum, a person there said that some of these behaviors were not anxiety behaviors. In particular, I'm talking about disassociative behaviors. I'm sure I spelled that wrong...anyway, she has not been cooperative in getting to therapy and she has another condition, a medical condition that could potentially be severely harming her. She has severe Vitamin D deficiency. About a year ago she went to a regular doctor and he prescribed that she take three times the normal dosage of Vitamin D for three months and then come back. She has neither taken the Vitamins, nor gone back. Vitamin D deficiency can cause early onset Alzheimer's and a variety of other conditions.
She is an adult, married, with four kids, all living in our home. I think that not taking the Vitamin D is causing imminent danger to herself, and thus could mandate treatment in a psychiatric hospital, but I'm getting that death threats to herself or others are the only things that qualify as threats severe enough to warrant treatment against her will. Your thoughts would be much appreciated as I am desperate to get her help.
 
Mayflower7

Mayflower7

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My daughter has been officially diagnosed as having sever Generalized Anxiety Disorder and severe Social Anxiety Disorder. However, after I posted about her symptoms in the Anxiety Forum, a person there said that some of these behaviors were not anxiety behaviors. In particular, I'm talking about disassociative behaviors. I'm sure I spelled that wrong...anyway, she has not been cooperative in getting to therapy and she has another condition, a medical condition that could potentially be severely harming her. She has severe Vitamin D deficiency. About a year ago she went to a regular doctor and he prescribed that she take three times the normal dosage of Vitamin D for three months and then come back. She has neither taken the Vitamins, nor gone back. Vitamin D deficiency can cause early onset Alzheimer's and a variety of other conditions.
She is an adult, married, with four kids, all living in our home. I think that not taking the Vitamin D is causing imminent danger to herself, and thus could mandate treatment in a psychiatric hospital, but I'm getting that death threats to herself or others are the only things that qualify as threats severe enough to warrant treatment against her will. Your thoughts would be much appreciated as I am desperate to get her help.
Hi,
Why won't she take the vitamin D? The taste of the drops is horrible. The tablets are better.
Does she often refuse all meds? You can feel very poorly with low vit D, I did.
Here to listen.
Take care
 
Mayflower7

Mayflower7

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Also nobody can diagnose your daughter on a forum, I would listen to the Drs.
 
W

Wasatch Rebel

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I will post the letter I sent to her therapist, but I have to head out the door right now. She's refusing to take much of anything and is very uncaring about life in general though. Posting the letter describing the symptoms soon.
 
W

Wasatch Rebel

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Utah
Also nobody can diagnose your daughter on a forum, I would listen to the Drs.
I agree. However, the therapist who works in the same office as the one who did the psychological assessment seemed like there might be something more there too when I visited. My daughter has been twice and I was invited in the second time.
 
Mayflower7

Mayflower7

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I agree. However, the therapist who works in the same office as the one who did the psychological assessment seemed like there might be something more there too when I visited. My daughter has been twice and I was invited in the second time.
She needs an urgent re-assessment of her needs.
She is probably feeling very low from the vit D problem, and suicidal.
The Drs need to give her injections that will treat her many problems.
Hope she feels better soon.
Take care
 
W

Wasatch Rebel

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Here's my letter describing her symptoms with the names changed.

I am providing you the facts as I see them, so that you can review them prior or during her next appointment.

First of all, I would say that Rebecca can appear very cogent and articulate in these types of situations—that is, when questioned by a professional such as yourself. However, around the house, she rarely articulates anything anymore—and she used to be quite vocal in expressing her opinions and talking in general. Her appointment was at 10:30, and I wanted to make sure she made it because she's had trouble with that, and so I asked Justin to get her up the stairs and dressed by the time he left for work as I had no confidence that I would be able to do it. We left the house for the 10:30 appointment at 7:45. We stopped and picked up some breakfast at McDonald's, and I then drove her up Big Cottonwood Canyon, all the way up to the top of Guardsmen's Pass, if you know where that is. If not, it's nearly up at the top. I tried to engage her in conversation several times and she would not respond with more than a few words. This has been status quo for at least the past year, with very rare glimpses of the Rebecca we used to know.

It might also help you to know that Rebecca was in the top five of her high school graduating class. One of my friends in the mental health field said that it's common for high achievers in high school once they get put in the position of stay at home moms basically fall into depression quite frequently. Of course you would know more about this than I would.

Rebecca's diagnosis wasn't depression, but rather severe General Anxiety Disorder and severe Social Anxiety Disorder. This was from a psychological assessment done by Julie here at Comprehensive Psychological.

Secondly, I think my wife Ann was basically thrown under the bus, so I'd like to try to give a more balanced picture of what she's like as I have been on both ends—the good and the bad—of her behavior. Yes, Ann has always been opinionated, stubborn, and a “my way or the highway” kind of person. She and Rebecca have never had a stellar relationship. After they moved into our house though, it deteriorated substantially. It is true that Ann wasn't satisfied all the time with what Rebecca wanted to prepare for dinner in those first months, but Rebecca thought it was perfectly fine to serve it at 8-9 o'clock, which just didn't cut it. Ann can be a very ungrateful person at times, but her negativity was increased because not only were the meals being prepared so late, there was no help with any kind of cleanup after their children. We had instituted a rental agreement with them that included expectations for cleaning and helping along with a small amount of rent, but they weren't following through. Instead of making them leave at that time though, I continued trying to modify their behavior. Ann was getting more and more negative and my own thoughts toward Rebecca and Justin were pretty negative too. By the fall of 2014, between dealing with Ann's out of control anger, and Rebecca and Justin's dysfunctionality, I was ready to call it quits myself. I wanted out of everything.

I ended up getting the help I needed and leaving the LDS church at about the same time. I don't know, but I'm thinking that both of those may have had a heavy negative impact on Rebecca as I'm pretty sure I was kind of a rock in her eyes, maybe someone who didn't make those kinds of mistakes. If you put your dad on a pedestal and he fails you...I guess there can be consequences.

We didn't know she was starting a downhill slide into mental illness at that time though. One of my Facebook friends who was in management, suggested that I have accountability meetings with Rebecca and Justin and ask them to begin meeting expectations. I thought it a good idea, so I began doing it. It was ineffective though. I made them sign another contract that they would be out by June of 2015, but when that date came for some reason I didn't make them go.
The first clue I had that something might be a bit off with Rebecca was her buying sprees. She was buying things constantly from Amazon, including many duplicates. I think she ended up with six crock pots, for example. We had to order an extra recycle can from the garbage department just to keep up with all the boxes. I was furious. Why would she be buying all that stuff, instead of saving money so they could pay off their student loans and get out on their own? I brought this up in one of our accountability meetings. Justin eventually got that stopped.

Her behavior began to really deteriorate in 2016. She would forget to pick up the kids from school, which was actually worse because they were at a further away school because the oldest, Gillian, was in the gifted program and they didn't have that program at the local elementary. The school would call for her to come pick them up and she would blow them off and not go. Ann was left scrambling around to find someone to go get them.

Right around then the stealing food began to happen. Ann would be eating something in the living room and Rebecca would go right in and take part of it off her plate without asking. And Ann was pretty defenseless because of her illness. I told you about Rebecca taking off with the KFC box not five seconds after I told her it was Ann's and not to take it. There was another time when she grabbed Ann's sandwich and had it in her mouth taking a bite when I ripped it out of her hands. I am, after all, supposed to be protecting my wife first and foremost.

She started not coming out to even talk to her brother's at family gatherings. She did show up and ate with us at Thanksgiving in 2016, but didn't stick around after she ate, and didn't come to the larger family Christmas party that year. She forgot every child's birthday, and didn't do anything for them for Christmas. Justin, Ann and I were left scrambling on Christmas Eve to come up with something for the kids for Christmas. She wasn't attending any functions at the school for the kids, Parent Teacher Conferences, or anything. Her brother Ben would call to set up a time for his and Rebecca's kids to play together and he would be left waiting at the park or wherever and she wouldn't show up. Her high school friends set up a get-together and she told them she'd come and then not show up. Her responses to both Ben and the friends when they called to ask where she was, was to hang up on them. We tried getting her into a doctor to be checked out—or to get her to make an appointment and she would pretend to call, but she was actually talking to a dial tone.

I was still really the only one who knew Rebecca was mentally ill at this point and both Ann and Justin seemed to think that she was willfully choosing to be like this.

I had called and explained the situation to one of her friends, Debbie, whom she had stood up and the friend started coming over to try and help. Rebecca had helped Debbie through her own mental illness several years before. Debbie did a lot of help with cleaning up and she eventually got Rebecca into the doctor who found out that she had serious vitamin D deficiency and told her to take three pills a day. But she was out of it and wouldn't take them. Debbie was able to get her into a clinical social worker/counselor that Justin had set up. She went twice.

In the meantime, in the middle of 2017, Justin, still somehow believing that Rebecca had control over her actions lost it and hit her with a broom handle. That was down in our basement and I knew nothing about it until she came up and said “keep Justin away from me”. He must've heard, because he stayed downstairs for a while, but then a few minutes later, he came up, the broomstick still in his hands. “You're not going to hit her with that,” I said. He was very belligerent and told me that he was going to and I ended up calling the police, mostly because he was too heated and I didn't think I could deal with the situation. He ended up getting arrested and out of the home under a restraining order for a month, and DCFS became involved.
DCFS after a while called a meeting for all of Rebecca's support people in which Matt, the social worker, was on the speaker phone. He said that she needed a full psychological evaluation and that the second appointment she came to, she acted like she'd never met him before.

Justin began taking anger management classes, which he has since completed.

It took a while for us to get Rebecca in for the assessment. Her response to Debbie coming over to try and help became more and more angry. Debbie had her in the car heading to the assessment when Rebecca jumped out of the car when it was moving to keep from going. Debbie was very upset and ended up not being able to continue helping after that. She had been a huge emotional boost to the rest of us with her huge amount of help with laundry, and organizing their important papers, and general cleaning and support. It was a huge loss.

We had our family Christmas party of 2017. By then Rebecca was beginning to show up nude into the kitchen and she did so in front of her nieces and nephews. I caught her in the kitchen eating with the serving spoons directly out of the serving bowls. Again, Justin, Ann and I had to do Christmas for the kids, but at least this time we were prepared.

The nakedness has continued, almost daily, sometimes running into the living room and down the hallway. Going outside a few times. Ann was at first shrill about it and has since become more kind.

Back at the beginning of 2017 though, when Ann really got sick, Rebecca would come into the kitchen at midnight or 1 am and start banging things around and using the microwave etc., and Ann would scream at her “I hate you!” and really very hurtful, irrational things. Ann eventually overcame those tendencies and apologized. She has tried to be very kind to Rebecca for the past several months. However, I experienced a lot of belittling from Ann when I left the LDS church that went on for about a year, beginning in December 2014. I'm pretty sure that Ann needed some therapy too.
That being said, for the past several weeks, Ann has not talked to Rebecca using any unkind words, and has tried to include her in things, but it hasn't been working. The things Rebecca used to love, like watching tennis, or even tv in general, have no interest to her anymore. The Rebecca we all knew is gone. We want her back.

One night, a couple of weeks ago, Rebecca came upstairs in the middle of the night. Ann heard her acting very frightened, like something was chasing her. I was in my bedroom which is right next to the bathroom and I heard her making noises that sounded like a chimpanzee. Very freaky. I asked her to please be quiet so I could sleep, and she said, “sorry” and stopped the noises.

One more thing. We had set rules, as I previously stated for them as renters, but as time went on and I let them break them they have stayed at our house longer than Ann or I wanted. Rebecca may have been fine if they would have moved out, but now, with her illness and Justin's record of domestic abuse, and his work's not being willing to work with him much on getting time off to take her to counseling...I can't see it working for them if they move out right now. Justin would quickly run out of vacation/sick leave days to take her and she doesn't seem motivated to take herself. My pastor, my counselor, my attorney brother in law, and others, all have said that they need to get out of our house. But right now, while I can, I'm going to do my best to help Rebecca, so when they do move out, things will be somewhat stable.
 
Last edited:
Cazcat

Cazcat

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Hi,

It sounds like the last few years have been very difficult for all of you. I think that the information that you have included in the letter should be useful to the Dr/therapist. Some of her behaviour does sound quite unusual.

I have had vitamin D deficiency and it can definately play a part in anxiety and depression (which I'm told are very closely linked and often come together) and I have read that it can also be linked to psychosis. Sunlight also provides vitamin D so if she doesn't want to take the tablets encouraging her to spend time outdoors may be helpful. Very low vitamin D can cause bone pain and fractures too which is obviously concerning. I think your action of writing the letter is probably the best thing you can do at this point.
 
W

Wasatch Rebel

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Utah
Hi,
Sunlight also provides vitamin D so if she doesn't want to take the tablets encouraging her to spend time outdoors may be helpful. Very low vitamin D can cause bone pain and fractures too which is obviously concerning.
The biggest challenge is that she is very difficult to get to come out of the basement wearing clothes. Although that doesn't seem to bother her in the least. Last night, she came upstairs carrying a bag of garbage and walked right outside, stark naked, and deposited it in the trash container. It is impossible to reason with her--such as when we say "you need to be wearing clothes" she will answer "okay" or like last night I said, "you need to wear clothes when you go outside" and her answer was "I suppose I should". But nothing ever changes. I had hoped with all my heart that one of our neighbors would have seen her nude outside and called the police, just so she could get some kind of evaluation or even forced detainment in a mental health facility, but apparently none were outside or if they were, they chose not to call.
And then a week or so ago our microwave stopped working. It's the kind that's above the stove with the built-in fan and those are a bit pricier than the counter top kind, so I didn't want to rush right out and rashly buy an expensive one until I had done some research. I bought the cheapest counter top one I could find for the meantime. Anyway, she can't seem to figure out that the old one isn't working and keeps putting food in it and pushing the buttons (the timer still works). We find the food in the morning because she does this in the middle of the night. I have even posted signs taped over the controls saying that this one doesn't work and to use the other one, but the sign gets ripped off and she still tries to use it. She's a good reader, so her comprehension must be way down. Yesterday I specifically made it a point to go over the fact that it no longer worked and showed her the new one and asked "do you understand what I just told you?" She responded "yes". I had my doubts though, of course, and this morning, again there was food in the broken one. It's just a lot of frustration and she really needs to go consistently to therapy. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and support.
 
Cazcat

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It does sound like she's not very well at all. I think the more examples like this you can give the Drs the better. I'm not sure of the laws where you are (I'm in the UK) but here if someone's mental capacity is in question the professionals can intervene without there needing to be risk to her or others.
 
W

Wasatch Rebel

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I am in the U.S. where each state has slightly different laws. In Utah where I live I think doctors might have the authority to order some kind of intervention, but I believe the patient can still say "no" unless they pose imminent danger to themselves or others.
 
P

Perseida

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The issue is that you even support this downspiral by simply enduring your daughters misbehviour without any consequences. Even your wife sounds like a rather difficult person to get along with, even though I can't really judge wheter it's pathological or not.

It's absolutely necessary to get your grandchildren out of this dysfunctional environment as soon as possible.
 
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W

Wasatch Rebel

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Utah
The issue is that you even support this downspiral by simply enduring your daughters misbehviour without any consequences. Even your wife sounds like a rather difficult person to get along with, even though I can't really judge wheter it's pathological or not.

It's absolutely necessary to get your grandchildren out of this dysfunctional environment as soon as possible.
What consequences would you suggest?
 
Mayflower7

Mayflower7

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Hi,
Your daughters ill she's not simply misbehaving, anyway you can't really punish an adult.
I hope the Drs can see she is a risk to herself.
Please do keep us updated.
Take care
 
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W

Wasatch Rebel

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Joined
Jun 13, 2018
Messages
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Location
Utah
The issue is that you even support this downspiral by simply enduring your daughters misbehviour without any consequences. Even your wife sounds like a rather difficult person to get along with, even though I can't really judge wheter it's pathological or not.

It's absolutely necessary to get your grandchildren out of this dysfunctional environment as soon as possible.
My wife is disabled and was going through a many month bout of extreme difficulty at the time. She has largely become much easier to deal with--but she does have her issues. As for the children, we had the Division of Child and Family Protective Services in our home because of my son-in-law's violence and they were in the home for months on a weekly basis to observe. Their conclusion was that because of my wife and I being stable the children didn't need to be taken from the home, but that if my daughter and her husband moved out, the children would then likely be removed and placed in some sort of foster care. In our area, they usually put the children with the grandparents, which meant us, in such situations.
 
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