Voice of God verses voice of schizophrenia

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sikatriz

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#41
Well even in ancient times there were people who understood the working of the mind better than the ancient Jews. If you were to undertake a brief study of Buddhist and other ancient Indian philosophy it might surprise you how current and relevant it still is today.
I sense an antagonism towards Abrahamic religions. I'm curious to know your opinions on Islam and the prophet Mohamed as well as on Mormonism and their prophets.

Anything that displays the hallmarks of paranoia, personal fears or desires, conspiracies, or is related to the popular media such as sci-fi is pretty certain to be delusional.
Anything that displays antagonism towards a certain religious tradition or people is also pretty certain to be delusional. You acknowledge that even before the advent of modern psychology there were religious traditions that understood quite well how the mind works but you don't include the ancient Jews. I submit that you are displaying such an antagonism.

Why did God give Hitler the impulse to gas 6 million Jews? God does not seem to concern himself very much with even the large scale events on earth, much less what happens to individual people.
That is sort of the point I was trying to make. God lets bad things happen. He doesn't want to intervene against physical laws of nature or even emotional laws of human desire. But I don't believe that God gave Hitler the impulse to slaughter so many Jews. You are definitely not an anti-Semitist. I hope my previous comments don't lead you to believe that I am claiming such. Some people might think I'm anti-Semitist though because I believe that Jews who were slaughtered by Hitler with cruel and unusual methods may have sinned in previous lives. In the Old Testament, God always warns his people that if they sin they will be delivered to the buffetings of Babylon, Satan, etc. I don't think there's any danger in believing this, though. I pity the Jews who had to die under Nazi oppression. And I donate to Jewish charities. Please don't think I'm an anti-Semitist.
 
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#42
God lets bad things happen.
There are so many different conceptions of God / the Divine - so many religions, sects, denominations, so many mythologies, cosmologies, systems etc.

i don't think that any of them are right - None of them are any better than badly drawn sketches, & yet we have the Age Old arguments about who / what is right / wrong. It's silly.

All of them are human created - all of them are fingers pointing to the moon. We are all on an individual journey.

At least science - Quantum / Astrophysics etc is based on actual observation & evidence, & has a potential for a clearer picture.
 
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sikatriz

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#43
There are so many different conceptions of God / the Divine - so many religions, sects, denominations, so many mythologies, cosmologies, systems etc.

i don't think that any of them are right - None of them are any better than badly drawn sketches, & yet we have the Age Old arguments about who / what is right / wrong. It's silly.

All of them are human created - all of them are fingers pointing to the moon. We are all on an individual journey.

At least science - Quantum / Astrophysics etc is based on actual observation & evidence, & has a potential for a clearer picture.
I believe ALL religions are right. Even the religions of schizophrenics with only one follower. But anything with over a million followers is definitely true.

While we are all on an individual journey by ourselves, we are also travelling as a group when we bond with people with similar beliefs. Ecumenical movements further progress the unity of our journey. There is only one truth.

Eventually, science will reveal the nature of spirits. But we still don't know what neutrinos are! So that's far in the future.
 
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#44
I believe ALL religions are right. Even the religions of schizophrenics with only one follower. But anything with over a million followers is definitely true.

While we are all on an individual journey by ourselves, we are also travelling as a group when we bond with people with similar beliefs. Ecumenical movements further progress the unity of our journey. There is only one truth.

Eventually, science will reveal the nature of spirits. But we still don't know what neutrinos are! So that's far in the future.
i do respect your opinion but i don't really agree. i think that the full nature / extent of reality is largely beyond the conception of the human condition.

In a very general / loose sense of comparative religion / the perennial philosophy, the wisdom of Masters, possibly there is some very rough sketch of things, But that's it imo.
 
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#45
I sense an antagonism towards Abrahamic religions. I'm curious to know your opinions on Islam and the prophet Mohamed as well as on Mormonism and their prophets.
My grandparents were quite strict Christians, but I have to say my own inclinations are not in that direction. I find relatively little actual personal truth in the holy books of the Abrahamic religions, and the fact that they are faith-based and run off obedience to priesthoods also does not inspire me. I view them as largely damaging to people's clarity of mind. However, that does not mean they hold no value at all for other people, it is still an outlet for people's religious impulse.

Anything that displays antagonism towards a certain religious tradition or people is also pretty certain to be delusional.
Not so, in my opinion! There are many valid criticisms of the world's religious traditions, one at a time or all at once. It's an essential component of free speech to be able to discuss the pros and cons of religion in an open forum. It's also important to test religion's claims against rational, logical thought.

That is sort of the point I was trying to make. God lets bad things happen. He doesn't want to intervene against physical laws of nature or even emotional laws of human desire.
So, let's take the case where voices are generated by internal trauma and our own minds, so in a way by our emotions and the laws that govern them. Perhaps god chooses to do nothing against the voices because of that - they are a component of a free-willed being?

I don't think you are an anti-semitist :)
 
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sikatriz

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#46
i do respect your opinion but i don't really agree. i think that the full nature / extent of reality is largely beyond the conception of the human condition.

In a very general / loose sense of comparative religion / the perennial philosophy, the wisdom of Masters, possibly there is some very rough sketch of things, But that's it imo.
Wow! I couldn't disagree more. I believe that God himself would appear human to us. The Supreme Intelligence must have a brain similar to a human's but exponentially more intelligent. I believe that human sentience is a miracle. We were created in the image of God. Thus, while humans can't know everything like God, they are capable of understanding spirits and the essence of existence. They can have spiritual experiences.

I agree though that all we have right now is some very rough sketches. There's so much we don't know.
 
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#47
Wow! I couldn't disagree more. I believe that God himself would appear human to us. The Supreme Intelligence must have a brain similar to a human's but exponentially more intelligent. I believe that human sentience is a miracle. We were created in the image of God. Thus, while humans can't know everything like God, they are capable of understanding spirits and the essence of existence. They can have spiritual experiences.

I agree though that all we have right now is some very rough sketches. There's so much we don't know.
We are all Human - every single religious figure has been fully human.

The Soul / Spirit / Monad etc is from Source, that is what is within the image of God, it's analogy / allegory.
 
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Eigau

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Hi Immortality,

As some people on here know, I'm a JW. As you may know, we don't believe that the holy spirit is a person, but a force or influence that emanates from God. I have had friends in the past who belonged to the Elim Church here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the person I knew believed strongly that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God. JWs call the Father, Jehovah; The Son we call Jesus; But what I was wondering, what name do you call the holy spirit, if any?

Just a little background, I had a major psychotic break at the start of 2011. I've been hearing and talking to voices since then, and at times they have been people of different religions, and sometimes they have been deities. Most times they had names. So, that's why I ask whether the spirit you speak with has a name too.

Take care.
 
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plautus

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#49
I wish I could hear voices. Like a voice of god that talks to me. Unfortunately nothing happenes
 
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Kelly2017

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#50
In my experience voices like to masquerade as god in order to use our beliefs against us, and it's not good to place much trust in them.

I agree
:doh: Sorry, I tried to do this as a quote, but obviously I don't know how lol. You get the idea.
 
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Kerome

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#52
Totally agree the voices seem to be from the dark side
I'm not saying they all are, or always. But the ones that try to act on your strong emotions, that seem to want to provoke a response by talking as if they are God, or you are Jesus, they definitely seem up to no good. There are others, gentle voices that try to protect you or heal you, and those can be all right.
 
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#53
Hi Kerome,

If I may kindly add my wisdom, so to speak, of what I have learned... If you hear both "good" and "bad" voices then it is a game. A game that keeps you where you are meaning hearing voices. That is a ploy used by them to keep you roped in. "Good" spirits would not do this to you because they know the truth and they would not want you to keep listening to them because in turn you would be listening to the "bad" ones. I think we all may wish we could hear just "good" spirits, but I am not really sure this truly happens all that often. I hope this makes sense to you. Thanks Kerome, for allowing me to share :)
 
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#54
I don't think the voices act as a concerted group... it's not like a good cop-bad cop routine. My experience nowadays is more that I'm sitting there and different voices or fragments stop by. They're often all slightly different in tone of voice and personality, and it's unusual for one to come by that I remember from before. And I had quite a few occasions that good voices tried to stop me from hearing voices altogether.

But Kelly2017, your voices may be different. I went through several different stages of voice hearing, and you may well match up somewhere on that spectrum or outside it.
 
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whosebob

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#56
It is very sad to see how many have fallen to the voices. All I can do is give you the following explanation why God is One. Their is hope. Those that are sick won't be held accountable on the Day of Judgement. I hope I have help someone.


The Answer to heaven is God's oneness. But if you are still skeptical here’s an argument for you amongst many but to me it’s the one that makes the most sense. When you about to die will you turn to one God or many. God would’nt make it so complicated and confusing. It is also a very difficult time and one can hardly think. God had made it easier to hold onto one thought and this is the name of God.

What is unity? Unity is one, right? A supreme intelligence like God knows this. Why would God want to ruin his unity? It is impossible because God isn't created, to be created, means that you are not a God. That’s why God is One.
 
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whosebob

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#57
I have been discussing this with my psychiatrist for 14 years and his question to me every time is what is the Holy Spirit been talking to you about.
Your psychiatrist is wrong to reinforce something that it is'nt compatible with your religion. I think he does'nt understand your religion and is making things worst by telling you,"What is the Holy Spirit been talking to you about" Please think logically. God speaks to all of us in His own way. The voices are just trying to confuse you about your religion. Don't label anyone close to God. His attributes is great and belong to Him alone. So please be careful Godwilling.
 
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Kelly2017

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#58
Thank you for sharing Kerome. I am very I interested learning more about the voices that tried to stop you from hearing voices. Are you willing to elaborate?
 
Kerome

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#59
Thank you for sharing Kerome. I am very I interested learning more about the voices that tried to stop you from hearing voices. Are you willing to elaborate?
Sure, you are very welcome. One instance of this was that one of my voices, a very energetic being that seemed to glow in the picture that I had of him in my minds eye, once revealed to me that the others had all taken a vow, that when asked they had to tell the "whole story" of their existence. Later on, a different voice encouraged me to ask them all this question, "tell me your story, and begin at the beginning." So I did that, and I found that the beginning of each voices existence was a form of emotional pain. For example, three of them were made to feel jealous by me.

After each voice had told me its origin, it dissolved and went away, and since then rather than complete voices I have only heard occasional very short fragments. This was around the end of June last year, it was one of the more recent attempts.

There have been other cases where a voice has tried to help me by reducing my sensitivity or tried to fix my ears. Most of it is detailed in my Sticky Voices thread.
 
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Kelly2017

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#60
Very interesting Kerome. Thank you for sharing this. I will try to make some time to read through your threads to learn more about your experiences. :)