• Welcome! It’s great to see you. Our forum members are people, maybe like yourself, who experience mental health difficulties or who have had them at some point in their life.

    If you'd like to talk with people who know what it's like

Vocatus atque non vocatus deus aderit

A

Apotheosis

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I am going out on a bit of a limb here. I wanted to share on this site my experiences of "psychosis" or the content of ASC's (Altered states of Consciousness). I totally disagree with orthodox psychiatry that it is unhealthy to discuss this stuff; in fact I think it is about the most healthy thing you can do, in relation to working through such things, & gaining insight, perspective, & recovery. It is through discussing such things with other people within an environment of trust, that I have been able to get some kind of framework of understanding. I have described the experiences from the perspective of when I was in them, & I haven't gone into a lot of detail, just a basic outline really. Below is what I have posted on another site. It is personal, but if it can help someone get some identification, that they are not alone, & help them get some insight into their own experience, then that is a good thing.

Interestingly, the people I have found to be of most therapeutic help by far, has been other sufferers; initially when I started discussing such things with other "patients" in the hospital, & found two other people who had experienced things very similar, & later on when I have been lucky enough to find survivors within the community & with on-line interactions.

Of course all this could be described in terms of the delusional & as meaningless nonsense with no intrinsic value; there are other ways of seeing such things, & as a method of recovery I have formed a kind of map or framework for the “psychotic” experiences I have gone through. I have found a personal meaning & way of integrating & processing such things. The last time I was severely ill was over 4 years ago, & I feel like I have only now gained some closure or integration on what went on. There are aspects to these experiences that I will never resolve in this lifetime & recovery is an ongoing & continuing thing. I have not been able to relegate such things only to the past & move on in the same way as I once tried. It is almost like two realities or lives; that of the “other” – the one in which I am in ASC’s & my “normal” or sane life. Each life has had its own progression.

I will start at around the beginning; however, to truly try to impart some of these experiences would take a book or a series of them. I started writing a book last year about these things, but it is shelved for the time being.

17 – After a period of time of reading a practising the occult & taking a lot of different drugs this happened. One evening I became very euphoric, I had smoked a joint but I was not out of it. I was convinced that I was on the verge of discovering the meaning of life & we were all going to Heaven. I sat late at night with some books I had been reading & turned my conscious mind inward to the perfect power within. I heard as clear as spoken a disappearing scream inside of me & was convinced that was my soul leaving me for Hell & I had lost it to the Devil. It was like being transported into another World, like I had been turned inside out, my body vibrated, the room vibrated, the moon through the window danced around. I was in a state many, many more times more powerful than any hallucinogen that I had previously taken. I knew the future – the World had been taken over by highly technologically advanced Aliens who had turned most of the population of the planet into Zombies, if I slept I would become one too, now I knew the truth. By all means I had to not sleep. This whole scenario was being run by the Devil, I had to find the true Christian underground. Over a week later with still having not slept, numerous arrests, & much of the same I was sectioned.

Despite how the above sounds, it is difficult to impart just how believable all that was at the time. There was no question that any of it wasn’t true. I wasn’t mad in any way shape or form, the thought that I was never entered my mind. The state I was in, was to me; utterly horrific & so terrifying that I could not imagine at the time anything being worse.

21 – I had died & was in the afterlife, it was much the same as here, we carry on the same. There was detailed content connected to this experience, mainly concerning very serious crime; there was no distinction between what was part of the subjective experience & objective “reality”. I was in the state of believing I was dead & in the afterlife for around 4 months after which time I became convinced of some very paranoid ideas, including believing I was the devil, which ended in a suicide attempt & another admission in a psych hospital. There was also around the time of the admission the realisation that I was God – literally the creator of the Universe incarnate, & I had a Holy family on Earth; we were part of a grand scheme to initiate an all out nuclear detonation, in which I would press the button to bring into existence, or reveal the spiritual reality behind material existence; which was an illusion anyway. (Be thankful I wasn’t working for NORAD at the time. LOL)

25 – There was a definite progression with the content of the ideas, & the complexity of the experiences, although they followed from the previous two episodes. My environment was filled with very high & hidden advanced technology. I had been around since the creation of the Earth, & my life which I was aware, my physical form, was the projection of another life in which I was an immortal, living in multiple forms on the earth, which would come alive when all the pieces of that existence would come together. This involved things like tombs with relics & the like.

The last three episodes have involved similar themes but were progressively more complex. I think you get the idea. Themes which developed were “Light” & “dark” Alien races battling in secret on the Earth & throughout Space. Religious themes, themes centring around immortality & parallel Worlds, dimensions & realities existing alongside our own, often in which they coincided or I was jumping between, they were mixed up & usually involved one which was real & one illusionary, like there was two of everyone & everything.

There also developed over these experiences, the ideas of underground cities, high speed underground roadways, & complex underground passageways systems; which were interconnected into many houses.

The last time I was ill I saw a vision that stayed with me for many days & was so tangible it was more real than anything else. It was terrifying to me at the time.

Throughout all these states I have found that I have entered into these ASC’s quickly, & come out of them quickly (a period of usually 3 months, sometimes shorter, & sometimes longer). After I have come out of them; I have good insight into them, I can challenge, question & rationalise what has happened, & see many angles, including the orthodox, although that bores me. But I can view these things as entirely subjective experiences which happened “inside my head” & do not necessarily relate to anything “objective”. In a way these things are real at the time; they are to all intents & purposes happening to me. I do of course entertain many ideas & different theories & angles to what may be “True” about such things in an objective sense, but more importantly from the point of view of a psychological mechanism.

When I have been “well” I have lived a productive life, & reasonable full considering. As I said; it is like the “other” life is not real in the same way as it is when I am ill; then that other life becomes the one which is real.

I hope you find that as interesting as I did writing it. I find it therapeutic, almost cathartic to put this stuff down in words & to discuss it.

Foot note; After the first "psychotic" break, I took a literal interpretation from what I had experienced; & spent around 4 years practising a personnel Christianity, & looking for answers by obsessively reading & re reading the Bible. After which time I started to gain other perspectives & to view the whole experience differently. I no longer see such things from the point of view of a Christian paradigm. Although I do think the original "break" was connected to the influence of a "Dark Spirit" - what resonates with me as more of an explanation is from a Jungian sense - that my ego self, or conscious mind was overwhelmed by my Unconsciousness, "ego death" or the dissolution of the ego occurred. This raises different questions & viewpoints. There are other explanations & angles I have to these things now too.
 
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staples

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thanks for sharing that very interesting


have you completely gave up on chrisitianity now?
 
A

Apotheosis

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thanks for sharing that very interesting
Thank you, I am glad you found it interesting.

have you completely gave up on Christianity now?
It would depend on what you consider "Christianity" to be? I certainly don't follow any kind of Evangelical perspective. The Mythology behind the story & the History of religion I find interesting, as I do comparative religion. If I had to be pinned down to one of the abrahamic religions, then I would go with Islam as holding most truth, although I don't specifically follow any one particular doctrine. I do not find literal interpretations helpful. Sufi mysticism as well as mysticism in general is of more interest, along with Gnosticism. Zen has had an influence on me in the past & I still dip into Buddhism. On reflection I suppose anything which has a bearing on things of a "spiritual" nature I find of interest; the study of "belief" itself, or the mechanisms of consciousness, which includes the belief systems of indigenous peoples & Shamanic practise.

There is of course the perspective & argument that Christianity is based directly on the Pagan traditions of the Worship of the Sun.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/Mithraism.html

I have found a lot of interest in the heliopolitan religion, which was a monotheistic religion; quite probably the first one, if not the first religion. We can link it's existence to inscriptions from as far back as 4200BC; there is suggestion it's roots could well go back as far as 6000BC or further.

"The Cosmogony of Heliopolis was situated near nowadays Cairo and here the first god was Atum. At the time of the Old Kingdom his cult and some of his characteristics was taken over by Re but he lived on in the combined forms of the names Re-Atum and Re-Horakhte.

Re-Horakhte is the sun rising in the morning as a falcon soaring towards the sky and depicted in human form with the head of a falcon. Re-Atum is the sun when it sets in the evening. The name Re describes the physical presence of the sundisc in the sky and also the sungod 'shining in his disk'.

Although many myths were associated with the sun, the Heliopolitan cosmogony was the most influential of the creation myths. Its main source are the Pyramid Texts. The belief was that the earth was flat and personified as the god Geb, over whom the sky, personified as the goddess Nut was arched while below the earth lay the Netherworld. The sun was thought to travel in his sunboat across the sky in the daytime, and at sundown he stepped over into the nightboat to cross through the night and the underworld, meeting and striking back all kinds of dangers until he emerged at the eastern horizon, climbing back into his dayboat.

The Heliopolitan Creation Myth deals with a grouping of nine gods - the Great Ennead (the Pesdjet): Atum, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Nephtys and Seth.

Creating the World;

In short the myth tells how Atum either created himself, or as a child of Nun, rose out of these chaotic Primeval waters, from where a mound rose for him to stand on. Then he proceeded to separate light and darkness, and introduce order and structure in chaos so that the world with all its content could come into being. This is in essence the principle of Ma´at. He also assumed the form of the mythical Bennu bird, which means to rise in brilliance, and which became the symbol of the birth of the sungod. The mound upon which he stood, the Benben, was a pyramid shaped stone considered to be the first place that was reached by the sun's rays. At Heliopolis in the Hewet-Benben (the mansion of the Benben) a pyramid shaped stone was kept, which was believed to be the actual Benben, the place of creation where Atum had alighted. Such a stone existed in every 5th Dynasty temples to the sun god and it became the prototype for all obelisks that later were erected in front of temples.

Atum was believed to possess both male and female potentialities within, according to the myth he copulated with his hand, which was here associated with the female principle within him, swallowed his seed and spat out Shu, the god of air, and sneezed out Tefnut, the goddess of moisture. These two begot Geb, the earth-god and Nut, the sky goddess and so the cosmic part of the Ennead was complete. Their children; Osiris, Isis, Nephtys and Seth were not considered cosmic and belong to other myths."

To answer your question - "have you completely gave up on Christianity now?" I would say no, I consider there to be a thread of truth which runs through all religion. On the level that there can be taken from the Bible something which is uplifting, "positive", & to a degree "spiritual", then there is in mainly a mythological way; something to be gained from it. I am however aware of the other side to the Book, in which there is much which is deeply "wrong" about it, & I despair at the way religion has been used, & continues to be used for means which have nothing to do with the truth or God. IMAO I would honestly say that Christian fundamentalism, the Christian far right, Creationism, Born Again, Evangelical, & 7th day adventists, constitute as a whole one of the Evils in the World today, & having a potential for catastrophe. I am sorry if that offends anyone; but it's the way I see it.
 
A

Apotheosis

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I found this site of the "white Eagle lodge"

http://www.whiteagle.org/

I used to read some of their publications, & I have read a number of their books.

In relation to the idea of Jesus as a spiritual state like the Christos mind; then this is a form of "Christian" thought or system that I would go with.
 
gingerbear

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I wouldnt know how to cope if i was expereincing such things i must admit i think your a extremely strong person to still be here with us today.

Im not a big fan of reading but wow you kept my interest! really "enjoyed" reading that but then you stop and realise its some poor person whos been through this. Thanks for sharing that with us
 
lucid scream

lucid scream

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much of what you have said here i have felt myself. i also consider myselg Gnostic, though not as much a Christian Gnostic as i once did. nowadays i am Gnostic in the stripped down sense of a seeker of knowlege, but i no longer claim to believe in any God-im an agnostic gnostic. but i identify mostly in the Christian sense as a Sethian. this world was created by an evil being, the world being our prison, a place from which escaping is our highest goal. though Valentinianism makes a lot of sense too, that Yahweh is merely confused, the world was created simply because he had gotten so far from the true God, the all and the one, which i suppose is supported by Sophia's words, "you are mistaken, Sameal" when he declared that he was the one true God. but still, this world is one to escape from, because Yahweh is not the true God. but eh, who knows?
anywho, i also had a fairly significant break about aged 16 or 17, i dont remember exactly, but i started smoking pot at 16 and it was after that. i had come home late and smoked some weed and laid down to sleep. i felt myself raise up off the bed, and realised i was no longer insode my own body, and i drifted out the window. having read a lot about out-of-body experiences and lucid dreaming, i realized i could control my movements, and began flying around the city, which was absolutely incredible. i could swoop near the ground and fly as high as i wanted to. of course i wanted to fly as high as possible, and soon decided i wanted to leave the atmosphere, and see space, the moon, possibly other planets. i went out to the moon, farther and farther, until i suddenly realized somehow the laws of gravity, or maybe the connection to the earth, still applied to me, and i had gone too far, i suddenly had no more control over my flight, and began to drift aimlessly into space, farther and farther away from the earth. i was terrified. i managed to force myself out of the experience, and came to in my bed so violently i fell onto the floor. i believed, and sometimes still wonder if, i had lost my 'soul' in that experience, that my soul and body no longer existed together, that my consiousness in this body no longer had a spirit, that part of me had died somehow.
i have come back to that often in the years since. i still wonder sometimes if my mental problems are somehow tied to that experience. like i went too far and my soul is dead. but sometimes i think if its true then maybe its a good thing, as the goal in Christian Gnosticism is to pass through the spheres of these planes to escape Yahwehs prison and return to be absorbed back into the One, the true God, and so in that sense maybe much of the work was done that night, and im just waiting for my body to die, when it does i will be reunited with my Self.
 
A

Apotheosis

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i have come back to that often in the years since. i still wonder sometimes if my mental problems are somehow tied to that experience. like i went too far and my soul is dead. but sometimes i think if its true then maybe its a good thing, as the goal in Christian Gnosticism is to pass through the spheres of these planes to escape Yahwehs prison and return to be absorbed back into the One, the true God, and so in that sense maybe much of the work was done that night, and im just waiting for my body to die, when it does i will be reunited with my Self.
Your account was very moving to me, & it bought tears to my eyes, it is very rare anything does. Maybe as there are such parallels with my own story. Thank you for sharing such personal things. There is much I wanted to reply to, but it is late here, & I am tired. I will reply more fully when time permits.
 
lucid scream

lucid scream

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thank you for being 'into' this, i believe it is important to me, and lord knows the therapist who gets cash to work with me doesnt have time to delve into anything deeper that whats happening 'today'.
i look forward to this and these sorts of conversations. they are important pieces of the puzzle. there is much significance in painful experiences.
sleep as well as you need to. :)
 
A

Apotheosis

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thank you for being 'into' this, i believe it is important to me, and lord knows the therapist who gets cash to work with me doesnt have time to delve into anything deeper that whats happening 'today'.
i look forward to this and these sorts of conversations. they are important pieces of the puzzle. there is much significance in painful experiences.
sleep as well as you need to. :)
Thank you also for your interest & perspectives.

I have with great effort over the past 7 years, obtained 2 courses of very limited counselling; on both occasions the therapists refused to talk about anything connected to my experiences around this stuff. I also saw a support worker with a local drug support charity, the last time I tried stopping meds, they also would talk about nothing beyond the mundane. I am presently having limited sessions with a psychologist at the LMHT (Local Mental Health Team); who also refuse to talk about anything other than a CBT type session, looking at what I am doing in my life as regards to exercise & filling my time.

I am grateful to have chatted to an alternative healer around this stuff to get a very good perspective from him, & he was willing to discus such things. I also have a very good friend, who experienced something very similar in his teens, as to what we have; & he has helped me enormously over the past 7 years as well. It is so much more healthy, & therapeutically beneficial to explore this stuff. Some 10 years ago when I was last in hospital under section,I opened up with the other inmates, & 2 other people had been through very similar things. I take great solace in knowing I am not alone.

There is much in the way of meaning within these experiences, & I also look forward to finding pieces of the puzzle when discussing such things. I will go over what you have written above & reply to it.
 
A

Apotheosis

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much of what you have said here i have felt myself. i also consider myselg Gnostic, though not as much a Christian Gnostic as i once did. nowadays i am Gnostic in the stripped down sense of a seeker of knowlege, but i no longer claim to believe in any God-im an agnostic gnostic. but i identify mostly in the Christian sense as a Sethian.
I am not as knowledgeable or as well read on Gnosticism; but I am aware of a bit. I have been discussing the same subject with a friend on another forum. Sethianism certainly makes a huge amount of sense to me; & sheds light on what is actually going on in the Abrahamic religions. Such ideas concerning the Demiurge (Yaldabaoth) make so much more sense to me as to what may in fact be going on, than an orthodox perspective.

Sophia as 'knowledge of god through self knowledge'. To "Know thyself", to "thine own self be true". The inner journey. Gnosis. Insight. Intuition. All makes perfect sense.

this world was created by an evil being, the world being our prison, a place from which escaping is our highest goal. though Valentinianism makes a lot of sense too, that Yahweh is merely confused, the world was created simply because he had gotten so far from the true God, the all and the one, which i suppose is supported by Sophia's words, "you are mistaken, Sameal" when he declared that he was the one true God. but still, this world is one to escape from, because Yahweh is not the true God. but eh, who knows?
It is very interesting & makes a lot of sense too, I see that you have explored these things. Gnosis rather than faith is the catalyst to return to the "true" God. I will have to read the Nag Hammadi; the Apocrypha; the Gnostic Gospels. I have long been very interested in such things. Valentinianism does sound most interesting, & an influential group at the time.

anywho, i also had a fairly significant break about aged 16 or 17, i dont remember exactly, but i started smoking pot at 16 and it was after that. i had come home late and smoked some weed and laid down to sleep. i felt myself raise up off the bed, and realised i was no longer insode my own body, and i drifted out the window. having read a lot about out-of-body experiences and lucid dreaming, i realized i could control my movements, and began flying around the city, which was absolutely incredible. i could swoop near the ground and fly as high as i wanted to. of course i wanted to fly as high as possible, and soon decided i wanted to leave the atmosphere, and see space, the moon, possibly other planets. i went out to the moon, farther and farther, until i suddenly realized somehow the laws of gravity, or maybe the connection to the earth, still applied to me, and i had gone too far, i suddenly had no more control over my flight, and began to drift aimlessly into space, farther and farther away from the earth. i was terrified. i managed to force myself out of the experience, and came to in my bed so violently i fell onto the floor. i believed, and sometimes still wonder if, i had lost my 'soul' in that experience, that my soul and body no longer existed together, that my consiousness in this body no longer had a spirit, that part of me had died somehow.
Thank you for sharing that; it's all very interesting, with parallels of what I have experienced too. At the time I was convinced that my Soul was Lost; but I think now it is impossible for the body to live without a Soul. I more or less concluded that there is no Devil in the archetypal orthodox Christian sense. That there are Dark Spirits however who try to trick us; but it is debatable as to what these "Dark Spirits" are. Maybe the Gnostic Archon's? I think I was tricked into believing things that were not true.

Soul retrieval is a practise of Shamanism, & I would consider that bits of us can get fragmented or lost for a time, but eventually; whether in this life or in other realms, such pieces are all finally returned to the Higher Self? (in reference to the drawing I did on my Journal)- The Higher Self has many thousands? of projections, or manifestations of individual "Souls", some of which may travel to many different realms & states, possibly for long periods of time, (Aeons), but finally the path of the Soul returns to the Higher Self, or is gathered back within it, & the whole Higher Self in turn when it is again complete, itself returns to a Higher plane of existence. or "emanation" in the Gnostic sense.

In a slightly more orthodox sense, mental illness, or any condition can be seen as not being whole, or complete; that recovery or wellness is synonymous with completeness/wholeness.

In the case of people who are severely mentally damaged, or suffering with severe alzheimer's etc. I think their Spirits travel off from the body & do other things.

There is also the parallel with Jungian psychology & "ego death" which resonates with me on another level. That quite literally - To loose one's mind, or psyche, is to loose ones Soul.

i have come back to that often in the years since. i still wonder sometimes if my mental problems are somehow tied to that experience. like i went too far and my soul is dead. but sometimes i think if its true then maybe its a good thing, as the goal in Christian Gnosticism is to pass through the spheres of these planes to escape Yahwehs prison and return to be absorbed back into the One, the true God, and so in that sense maybe much of the work was done that night, and im just waiting for my body to die, when it does i will be reunited with my Self.
I also return to the experiences I have had. There are some things that will always remain a mystery, & in relation to discovering & understand what the nature of God & Reality is - well I will always be asking questions. No one knows. Before the "Break" at 17 I would consider my "Problems" as being normal for a teenager; yes I had alcohol & drug issues, issues with depression, life issues & such, but after that first experience my World was turned completely inside out & upside down, & I no longer inhabited the same World with the same concerns. Initially I was battling for my own salvation in the most real way imaginable, & then I was, in a way on a quite fantastical journey, in a World most others don't see, let alone think exists.

I think on another level there was some serious miss wiring went on through that first experience, & I doubt the wiring in my head will ever be the same.

Genuinely; I don't think the Soul can either die or be lost, & that Ultimately all things return to Wholeness, & so I would agree with your conclusion that Ultimately such an experience could be seen as "Good", or that all things of God return to God.

It's very interesting & helpful for me to chat with you about it all anyway. Thanks.
 
A

Apotheosis

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I wouldnt know how to cope if i was expereincing such things i must admit i think your a extremely strong person to still be here with us today.

Im not a big fan of reading but wow you kept my interest! really "enjoyed" reading that but then you stop and realise its some poor person whos been through this. Thanks for sharing that with us
Hi GingerBear, thank you for reading what I wrote. I am glad that you found it interesting.

Am I strong person to have got through it? Or was it going through such things which made me stronger in ways? You also have gone through many things, & you have difficulties to cope with, which have made you stronger. We can grow through pain & such experiences in ways we first don't realise.

From the perspective of others; things can appear differently, they can appear worse or better. We cannot compare pain, or my "stuff" is worse than yours. From personal perspective things cannot be compared in such ways. With family & friends, some things which they have got upset over & worried for me about; I sometimes haven't been as bothered about. While other things that have bothered me more, they don't see. So I think it's a case of perspective again.

Anyone who has experienced mental illness & touched on this other side to life, has experienced things other than the norm, & all deserve a medal of some kind in my book. :)
 
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Danage

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I am going out on a bit of a limb here. I wanted to share on this site my experiences of "psychosis" or the content of ASC's (Altered states of Consciousness). I totally disagree with orthodox psychiatry that it is unhealthy to discuss this stuff; in fact I think it is about the most healthy thing you can do, in relation to working through such things, & gaining insight, perspective, & recovery.
I have to agree. Talking about it aids in recovery.
 
lucid scream

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I am not as knowledgeable or as well read on Gnosticism; but I am aware of a bit. I have been discussing the same subject with a friend on another forum. Sethianism certainly makes a huge amount of sense to me; & sheds light on what is actually going on in the Abrahamic religions. Such ideas concerning the Demiurge (Yaldabaoth) make so much more sense to me as to what may in fact be going on, than an orthodox perspective.

Sophia as 'knowledge of god through self knowledge'. To "Know thyself", to "thine own self be true". The inner journey. Gnosis. Insight. Intuition. All makes perfect sense.



It is very interesting & makes a lot of sense too, I see that you have explored these things. Gnosis rather than faith is the catalyst to return to the "true" God. I will have to read the Nag Hammadi; the Apocrypha; the Gnostic Gospels. I have long been very interested in such things. Valentinianism does sound most interesting, & an influential group at the time.
the Nag Hammadi i would recommend highly, much of the Apocrypha, if you mean those books such as Esdras which were once part of the accepted canon but were removed (or rather just not included anymore) in the early 19th century support the Nag Hammadi and they reference the same things. if memory serves the Gospel of Mark is the gospel that is the most Gnostic. in any case once the printig press became widely used and literacy raised to the point that most of the 'laypeople' could read the bible for themselves, the Apocrypha suddenly ceased to be included in the accepted canon.



Thank you for sharing that; it's all very interesting, with parallels of what I have experienced too. At the time I was convinced that my Soul was Lost; but I think now it is impossible for the body to live without a Soul. I more or less concluded that there is no Devil in the archetypal orthodox Christian sense. That there are Dark Spirits however who try to trick us; but it is debatable as to what these "Dark Spirits" are. Maybe the Gnostic Archon's? I think I was tricked into believing things that were not true.

Soul retrieval is a practise of Shamanism, & I would consider that bits of us can get fragmented or lost for a time, but eventually; whether in this life or in other realms, such pieces are all finally returned to the Higher Self? (in reference to the drawing I did on my Journal)- The Higher Self has many thousands? of projections, or manifestations of individual "Souls", some of which may travel to many different realms & states, possibly for long periods of time, (Aeons), but finally the path of the Soul returns to the Higher Self, or is gathered back within it, & the whole Higher Self in turn when it is again complete, itself returns to a Higher plane of existence. or "emanation" in the Gnostic sense.

In a slightly more orthodox sense, mental illness, or any condition can be seen as not being whole, or complete; that recovery or wellness is synonymous with completeness/wholeness.

In the case of people who are severely mentally damaged, or suffering with severe alzheimer's etc. I think their Spirits travel off from the body & do other things.

There is also the parallel with Jungian psychology & "ego death" which resonates with me on another level. That quite literally - To loose one's mind, or psyche, is to loose ones Soul.



I also return to the experiences I have had. There are some things that will always remain a mystery, & in relation to discovering & understand what the nature of God & Reality is - well I will always be asking questions. No one knows. Before the "Break" at 17 I would consider my "Problems" as being normal for a teenager; yes I had alcohol & drug issues, issues with depression, life issues & such, but after that first experience my World was turned completely inside out & upside down, & I no longer inhabited the same World with the same concerns. Initially I was battling for my own salvation in the most real way imaginable, & then I was, in a way on a quite fantastical journey, in a World most others don't see, let alone think exists.

I think on another level there was some serious miss wiring went on through that first experience, & I doubt the wiring in my head will ever be the same.

Genuinely; I don't think the Soul can either die or be lost, & that Ultimately all things return to Wholeness, & so I would agree with your conclusion that Ultimately such an experience could be seen as "Good", or that all things of God return to God.

It's very interesting & helpful for me to chat with you about it all anyway. Thanks.
but returning to wholeness is possibly the reason i became fractured in my Self. our 'inner light', or our soul, was placed inside us by Sophia, when Yahweh created man. these fragments were literally pieces of the One true Gd, and they want very badly to return to it. the Gnostic God is similar to the Buddhist idea of God, it is a natural being not necessarily interested in what happens to us, it just is, and when we pass through the planes made by Yahweh and return to it, we lose our Self and are absorbed back into the One. so in that respect what happened to me may be my Soul trying to return to God, as my out of body experience took me past the planes and as soon as that happened, my Soul made a beeline for the One. or possibly it didnt make it through all the planes and is stuck in another. the drawing you showed me is actually a fair representation of the planes, i was surprised to hear that it didnt come straight from this idea.
anyway i have to go see my psych, but i will be back and make a more proper post if i have missed anything i wanted to say.
 
A

Apotheosis

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the Nag Hammadi i would recommend highly, much of the Apocrypha, if you mean those books such as Esdras which were once part of the accepted canon but were removed (or rather just not included anymore) in the early 19th century support the Nag Hammadi and they reference the same things. if memory serves the Gospel of Mark is the gospel that is the most Gnostic. in any case once the printig press became widely used and literacy raised to the point that most of the 'laypeople' could read the bible for themselves, the Apocrypha suddenly ceased to be included in the accepted canon.
I will do some research into it & then buy some books, I will get the Nag Hammadi as you recommend it.

but returning to wholeness is possibly the reason i became fractured in my Self. our 'inner light', or our soul, was placed inside us by Sophia, when Yahweh created man. these fragments were literally pieces of the One true Gd, and they want very badly to return to it. the Gnostic God is similar to the Buddhist idea of God, it is a natural being not necessarily interested in what happens to us, it just is, and when we pass through the planes made by Yahweh and return to it, we lose our Self and are absorbed back into the One. so in that respect what happened to me may be my Soul trying to return to God, as my out of body experience took me past the planes and as soon as that happened, my Soul made a beeline for the One. or possibly it didnt make it through all the planes and is stuck in another. the drawing you showed me is actually a fair representation of the planes, i was surprised to hear that it didnt come straight from this idea.
anyway i have to go see my psych, but i will be back and make a more proper post if i have missed anything i wanted to say.
Thanks for the reply - That explains things well. I suppose that if such things are in a sense true, then other systems & people will have picked up on it. That we have these "fragments" would give us the intuition of the truth.

My Mum always used to say to me & my Bro as children that we have a little piece of God inside of us. She has said quite a few things over the years which correlate to what we are talking about.

I hope it goes well with the psych.
 
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Danage

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Gnostics Biblical Unitarians?

From what I can tell Gnostics were Biblical Unitarians, which the theology of God I keep to.

As an aside, in the church I am a part of, we regard all religious books, including the Apocrypha, Nag Hammadi, New Testament Apocrypha and other controversial writings, as having some use to us. We also view the Bible with much caution though. We do not subscribe to sola scriptura, and Biblical infallibility, but we regard any religious text, the Bible included, as being of much value to us.
 
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