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Trance Logic

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breaksandflows

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I think I'm suffering from a trance logic or something similar. Does anyone know if this is singularly a symptom of schizophrenia as I've read it might be related to PTSD also? Any solutions will be much appreciated.
 
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rasselas

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hello

Hello there. I've had a gander on the internet to try and get a handle on what you mean by 'trance logic'; it would seem to be a descriptor of the hypnotic state, wherein a person's imagination is fully opened up, and consequently they are open to suggestion. And, as the imagination is boundless in this state, much like in a dreamstate, the usual logical rules and expectation of waking reality can be turned on their head.

Is this what you mean?

(I suspect there is a significant, uncharted link between the dreamstate and psychosis...)
 
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breaksandflows

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Thanks for the quick reply.
Your comments on dreamstate have openned a new perspecive for me. When I contextualise my thought processes in this way they
seem very much like a chase dream except I'm not forever running away from someone but trying to catch a conclusion without
ever reaching the goal. Maybe I'm finding a double impasse or ending the deciphering back where I started, like a vicious circle.
A similar idea I've read about is the hypothesis of Zeno's arrow.
Intuitively I feel there is a truth to be found in all this but is it a meaningful one? The frustration is that I'm always a
step away from any meaning.
 
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rasselas

Guest
aha!

With infinite possibilities, infinite choices, and infinite causes multiplied by 6 billion people and an unquantifiable number of individual atoms what are we left with?

I'd say, probablity. The search for meaning subsequently becomes the meaning.

I hope you don't mind me coming over all zen!
 
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Apotheosis

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A similar idea I've read about is the hypothesis of Zeno's arrow.
Intuitively I feel there is a truth to be found in all this but is it a meaningful one? The frustration is that I'm always a
step away from any meaning.
In many ways, & on many levels; I think that we create our own meaning.

I used to be very obsessed with Duality - The breaking down of all things into opposites - Simply - Light/Dark, Sun/Moon, Good/bad, God/Devil etc etc etc.

What happened was that I got to a stage where I no longer think in those terms - things are blended into each other a lot more, & based not on separate, ultimate; differences, opposites or dualities - but more on subjective meaning, perspectives & individual interpretations. Does that make any sense to you? It is hard to put into words.

In the 'West' I think that there is this tendency to think in very compartmentalised ways. Things are thought about by being compared, dissected, measured against other things, reduced & broken down into smaller & smaller parts ~ things become very much based on dualistic subjective value judgements. That type of thinking is not wrong per say, but there is also far more wholistic ways & methods of understanding things, & apprehending reality.
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
I think I'm suffering from a trance logic or something similar. Does anyone know if this is singularly a symptom of schizophrenia as I've read it might be related to PTSD also? Any solutions will be much appreciated.
From the perspective of depth psychology - or more trans-personal ideas - then a psychosis is an entering into the realms of the dream state/world, the arena of the purely symbolic; of directly accessing the unconscious/supra conscious or archetypes of the collective unconscious.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/200903/are-people-schizophrenia-living-dream

"Dreams are brief madness and madness a long dream"
-Arthur Schopenhauer
 
schiz01

schiz01

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Interesting post
I feel the same way ....its almost like a malfunction...like something is on the tip of your tongue but you cant seem to remember it
I have been thinking of it in terms of the conscious mind vs the unconscious mind and trying to find a harmonious balance between the two.
Weather i will be ever able to do this.....i don't know......some times i think i have hit the jackpot and everything makes sense .....then i drop the ball of string and i have to wind it all up again.....its like one step forward 10 steps back.
 
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breaksandflows

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In the 'West' I think that there is this tendency to think in very compartmentalised ways. Things are thought about by being compared, dissected, measured against other things, reduced & broken down into smaller & smaller parts ~ things become very much based on dualistic subjective value judgements. That type of thinking is not wrong per say, but there is also far more wholistic ways & methods of understanding things, & apprehending reality.
Thats the truth that has meaning too, my dreamstate expresses the nature of my paradox by utilising paradox.
By critisising myself in an apparently universal and unconditional (loving) way, I get the excuse for it in contraband style.
This relationship to the law is what I've been grasping at and am now turned off by.
I thank you for your kind insight.
Thanks for also pointing me in the right direction to discover more wholistic ways of understanding reality.:hug:
 
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dlzoidberg

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I think I probably suffer from this. It would explain that even though I know the voices are not real, just every now and again I do. I really does feel like going into a trance.
 
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breaksandflows

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The thing that confuses me is not any disonance in the voice, the voice is actually comforting because as I said in my last post,
it speaks in a universal and unconditional way giving me an impression of grounding which for me is represented by law,
subliminal or otherwise. The disabling seduction of being irrationally rational is thinking I'm moving forward when I'm chasing
my tail.
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
some times i think i have hit the jackpot and everything makes sense .....then i drop the ball of string and i have to wind it all up again.....its like one step forward 10 steps back.
Yes, like chasing our own tails.
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
Thats the truth that has meaning too, my dreamstate expresses the nature of my paradox by utilising paradox.
By critisising myself in an apparently universal and unconditional (loving) way, I get the excuse for it in contraband style.
This relationship to the law is what I've been grasping at and am now turned off by.
I thank you for your kind insight.
Thanks for also pointing me in the right direction to discover more wholistic ways of understanding reality.:hug:
Hi - I replied to schiz01 without seeing that you had already replied the same thing! :)

The jury is still out on what the nature of reality actually is. But I do think that from a certain perspective - consensus & 'normal' reality; is no more normal, & quite probably far less normal than the experiences of some mad peoples.

Insanity or Enlightenment ~

http://www.oneinahundred.co.uk/pages/articles/insanity-or-enlightenment.php
 
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breaksandflows

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I guess what you're saying is that to rebalance the scales I need
to read more books by the mystics instead of valuing myself by traditional Western standards
 
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Apotheosis

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I guess what you're saying is that to rebalance the scales I need
to read more books by the mystics instead of valuing myself by traditional Western standards
I don't know what I am saying exactly - & I try not to give too much advice; we are all different & individual ~ it's horses for courses.

I personally see things as being loosely three-fold; physical (biological), mental (or psychological), & Spiritual (or mystical). & I try to address each area in relation to my MH condition & my life. Each area appears intertwined within each other; & symbiotic with each, & not as wholly separate areas at all.

I have certainly, personally found it helpful to explore some mystical writing, & to look at things from a more spiritual & holistic perspective. I have found some solace in the ideas of Jungian depth psychology, symbolism, & other more esoteric stuff.

Some people appear to find not thinking about all that; but juggling around with the best combination of meds; the best help. Many people appear to not want to think about very much at all - & I suppose that is right for them.

The past year I have been trying to simply focus on doing things that I enjoy doing, & trying to relax as much as possible, & to let go of as much as possible. I experienced trauma at a very young age; & I took to drink/drugs that combined with other things sent me mad. I am now just trying to recover & lead a simple life.

It is very hard I think; for people, when they experience non-ordinary states - as our society & cultures are no longer interested in such things, do not cater to such experiences, provide no genuine support for people going through such things, & seek to invalidate, & suppress such experiences, & ostracise, exclude, & isolate those that do experience such things ~

Whereas in certain cultures & times; such people & experiences would have been revered & embraced - now they are shunned & pathologised.

I don't have the answers - I am just willing to discus & view my experiences for perspectives which are not the norm, & which do not adhere to conformity; the mainstream orthodox views, & the materialistic, scientific reductionist value system entrenched in our Western paradigm.

I prefer other ways of viewing & experiencing the World. ;)
 
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breaksandflows

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Thats the beauty of a forum like this, its an expression of humanity and here we don't have to feel the things you mention that "ordinary" society seems to want us to feel. Just to add that I did spot that you're voice is infinitely more universal and unconditional than mine so thanks for letting me find this out:)
 
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