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There is another way

cpuusage

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"Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don't have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing's Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry's Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-'Weller than well'- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

_____________________________________________

"What really took Jung's colleagues by surprise, however, was his declaration that the so-called acute schizophrenic break phenomenon is actually no disease, but rather a natural (and temporary!) healing process – which automatically activates itself in response to the underlying blockage which I have just described. Jung maintained that the spontaneous onset of the visionary state of consciousness is nature's self-organising way for the alienated psyche to become whole again. In his view, when the Ego has become cut off from the rest of the psyche to a point of real distress, the Self "comes to the rescue" through a temporary, but complete overpowering of the conscious personality by means of a vivid upwelling of hallucinatory voices and visions from the deeper levels of the unconscious. The conscious Ego, that is, falls apart and comes back together again, renewed. If one understands the essentially life-affirming nature of the visions which occurs during this metamorphosis, appreciates their symbolic relevance to the problems at hand, and integrates their deeper meaning, the result is a healing of the alienated condition which prevailed before the onset of the so-called illness itself – and a rebirth of the personality as a more integrated, invigorated whole."

__________________________________________________


“I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses - quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses - which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

- Carl Jung

Jung & Schizophrenia

Eighty-odd years ago, Jung voiced his deep concern that the powerful, often vivid, chaotic and disturbing psychology of schizophrenia, which he had so painstakingly chartered and honoured throughout the many years he treated and healed schizophrenia sufferers, had not been given the respect and serious attention it deserved. He likewise lamented the appalling lack of knowledge of the psychology of schizophrenia among those of his own profession, a situation which has changed precious little today.

Sadly, however, Jung's vast body of invaluable work has fallen for the most on hostile ground and deaf ears, ironically in psychiatric circles, largely because Jung's respect for 'the reality of the psyche' and its religious, mythic and spiritual needs, dimensions and instincts poses a threat to the materialist bias that underscores drug-based, or biologic psychiatry, but also because his personally demanding and soul-centred approach to psychiatry is radically at odds with the detached 'illusion of expertise' on which biologic psychiatry's mask of authority, presumed sanity, and stagnant wasteland of 'brain chemistry' dogma are shakily grounded.

In place of dry textbook knowledge learned by rote, Jung gives precedence to living primary experience, hence his assertion that we understand nothing psychologically unless we've experienced it. In this sense, the people who know most about schizophrenia are the sufferers themselves, followed closely by those who have 'been there' and have pulled themselves out of a psychosis and so 'know the road'. Such folk, as invaluable 'wounded healers', can therefore often guide others groping along similar roads, or pull people out of the quagmires and tricky labyrinths of psychosis.

Equal Therapeutic Dialogue

In place of the practitioner's mask of fatherly authority, Jung puts the mutual vulnerability, openness, imaginal richness, honesty and trust of the therapeutic dialogue, in which patient and therapist confront one another on equal terms and through which both stand to learn and grow. In place of forced treatment, hasty consultations and toxic psychiatric drugs, Jung puts a trust in nature, unconscious wisdom and the healing which, residing in the 'patient patient', is catalysed and midwifed by the caring therapist. No wonder he poses a threat to those who esteem power, professional detachment, diplomas, diagnostic manuals and drug company profits over the empowerment, equality, freedom, healing and dignity of the patient.

Needless to say, there are other closely related and equally grave moral issues at stake here. For instance, imagine, if you will, that a reputable medical practitioner had come forward with evidence of a safe, natural cure for cancer, but that the medical establishment had ignored the evidence and, worse still, had kept the findings from cancer sufferers for fear of losing income and power through their monopoly over the provision of existing anti-cancer 'treatments', which do not heal. By the same token, Jung - and others who have followed in his wake - cured his schizophrenic patients with psychotherapy alone. The tragedy of the 'mental health crisis' is not only, then, that so many already fragile and wounded people have been damaged and driven to suicide; what is equally tragic is that all along, there have existed natural, re-empowering, healing alternatives to psychiatric drugs; alternatives which biologic psychiatry, the Government, Schizophrenia Fellowships and drug companies have in a morally disgraceful way ignored, or deliberately kept from sufferers and the public."
 
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ettiene.dyer

Guest
yes genesis .... here is the long told worth of it before band broke ......


Yeah ...something in me, dark and sticky, the way it feels, this feel, can't go on
this time you have gone to far
echo
this time you have come to far
dont' talk back, take your drugs and shut your mouth,
don't say nothing, dont turn around
this is "For Real"
digging in the dirt, find the places I got hurt, open up the places I got hurt
DING DONG DITCH
the more I look the more I find, the clothes I am in, I get so blind
I feel it in my head and toes, I feel it it in my sex, thats to far
this time you cum to far
don't talk back just drive the car, just shut your mouth, don't say nothing, dont turn around, this is for
digging in the dirt, stay with me and eat some more
open up
I am digging in the dirt, find the places we got hurt
digging in the dirt, find the places we got hurt
digging the dirt....
 
E

ettiene.dyer

Guest
the sea turtles begin in the egg to take on a vast ocean of experience, the only thing that stands in the way is their fear
 
E

ettiene.dyer

Guest
come talk to me... in search of you , I feel my way through the slowest heaving night

I reach out to the hardest defense

 
R

ramboghettouk

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i have no idea whether alternatives would work, in some cases yes in some cases no, i know it's not something i'm going to be able to afford, me it's either take the meds or high probablity i get locked up, maybe it shouldn't be that way but it is

Said to gp if i came off the drugs i might be fit for work and if i get sectioned it'd help with the benefits he said i don't think so you'd come out worse than when you went in
 

cpuusage

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"Man is hypnotized. His entire life is one great nightmare, which
he takes for reality. One of his handy sleeping pills is his blithe
assumption that he is not asleep, that he is a perfectly conscious
human being.

In spite of the repeated disasters occurring in his nightmare, he
still insists he is awake. He goes through life like a sleepwalker,
bumping into one painful object after another, but never letting
the shock wake him up.

This is what the mystics have been trying to get over to humanity
for centuries."

The Mystic Path to Cosmic Power, Chap. 2, p. 28
 

cpuusage

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i have no idea whether alternatives would work, in some cases yes in some cases no, i know it's not something i'm going to be able to afford, me it's either take the meds or high probablity i get locked up, maybe it shouldn't be that way but it is

Said to gp if i came off the drugs i might be fit for work and if i get sectioned it'd help with the benefits he said i don't think so you'd come out worse than when you went in
Thanks Rambo - I'm in a similar position. & I agree with you. I do feel though that there are far more humane, caring & effective approaches that could have been used for us (& still could be) - but as you say; we're not in an ideal World - it is as it is.
 
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ramboghettouk

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When my girlfriend cpn came round i said have you tried psychotherapy, he said psychotherapy wouldn't work with her, i said have you tried it he said people have to blame someone so they blame us

It was me who called them, someone could have got hurt, i don't know if she knows i sectioned her, we haven't talked about it, i tell her she needs to take her meds like i need to take mine
 

cpuusage

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When my girlfriend cpn came round i said have you tried psychotherapy, he said psychotherapy wouldn't work with her, i said have you tried it he said people have to blame someone so they blame us

It was me who called them, someone could have got hurt, i don't know if she knows i sectioned her, we haven't talked about it, i tell her she needs to take her meds like i need to take mine
I feel it's a barbaric & uncaring society where the options & approaches are so limited. I personally strongly disagree with the way these experiences are generally understood & treated.

In regards to your own life, circumstances & experiences rambo - I can no longer comment - & after all, it's not my life or choices. I do however appreciate a lot of the difficulties in all these areas.
 
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ramboghettouk

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as my gp said "sometimes the system makes things worse" but without acess to private money it's either the system or nothing, nothing been a cardboard box on the street
 
|||ME|||

|||ME|||

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Relates to this, a lot can be achieved by viewing things as experiences to be worked with rather than illness and trying to lobotomise them. I think it takes more support in the short term, and support of a particular kind, but can leave people able to support themselves in the long term. I honestly think if I'd had that kind of support I'd be doing what Eleanor and Rufus May are doing now.
 
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ramboghettouk

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We can't all do what eleaner and rufus may are doing as there would be no one to do it to
 
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|||ME|||

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I don't think many of us do get that kind of support, it's heartbreaking when you realise just how bad it is and what you've been robbed of through actively harmful interventions. Sometimes I wish I'd never worked it out or seen any of all this stuff, it can be so hard to deal with. I think her psychiatrist was Pat Bracken who sounds like one of few good ones from what I've read. The rest destroy far more lives than they help, sometimes even for people who swear by them. I still have immense respect for Eleanor and Rufus though, they do some incredible work and show just what can be done ... the more of them there are the better, in a world like the one we live in I don't think the conveyor belt of the newly traumatised or diagnosed will ever stop, they'd just all earn a lot less.
 
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