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The police are coming to get me on Thursday (CTO recall)

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nightmare57

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Mar 12, 2016
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I refused my depot last week and going to refuse it tomorrow (my last opportunity to have it) This has happened before. The last time my care coordinator came to my house and issued the CTO recall and some time later the police came. I willingly went with them last time to the hospital and after some arguing reluctantly had the depot and they released me and the police took me home.

This time again I'm going to be cooperative with the police and let them take me to hospital, i don't want any drama outside my house.

I'm going to refuse the hospital staff to administer the injection. It's a small specialist learning disability hospital so it's likely they will not have the paliperidone within the building.

Will they keep me or forcible inject me against my will then release me if they have the paliperidone available.
Obviously I'm going to be incredible mad if they do that but their isn't anything in my risk assessments that say I'm a risk to other people. They might treat me with more respect if there was.

Will they keep me overnight if I refuse?
 
Mayflower7

Mayflower7

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Hi,
In my opinion they will put you under a section three and then they can forcibly give you injections.
Please reconsider having the injection, at least you will be able to stay at home.
Take care
 
C

Coast2

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I think Mayflower is right. It would be awful to have someone forcing an injection upon you NM.

The only way you're going to get off the drugs is by being cooperative with them. So accept the injection then, at a later date, work with your psychiatrist to wean you off the drugs when you both feel it is appropriate.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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I refused my depot last week and going to refuse it tomorrow (my last opportunity to have it) This has happened before. The last time my care coordinator came to my house and issued the CTO recall and some time later the police came. I willingly went with them last time to the hospital and after some arguing reluctantly had the depot and they released me and the police took me home.

This time again I'm going to be cooperative with the police and let them take me to hospital, i don't want any drama outside my house.

I'm going to refuse the hospital staff to administer the injection. It's a small specialist learning disability hospital so it's likely they will not have the paliperidone within the building.

Will they keep me or forcible inject me against my will then release me if they have the paliperidone available.
Obviously I'm going to be incredible mad if they do that but their isn't anything in my risk assessments that say I'm a risk to other people. They might treat me with more respect if there was.

Will they keep me overnight if I refuse?

short answer: Yes, probably.

It sounds as though you are already under some sort of court order for the treatment so that means they use whatever means necessary.

A lot depends on a lot though, for all I know you may be quite well and the physician who comes along with the needle thinks to themselves, hmmm, maybe its time for review.

The long answer is; they treat every case as individually and its often a Team that makes these decisions, and Teams tend to have things like Annual Leave and Booked Appointments so if you want a review under Refusal Circumstances you may be in for a long wait before they can all coordinate themselves.

What does your GP say or have you made this decision against advice? No judgement just curious, I find it oddly polite they've said, Oh By The Way Well Be Round To Forcibly Drag You In On Thursday :(
 
N

nightmare57

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Last time I was issued the recall the day after I missed the second appointment and the police was called after they left. So I'm going on personal experience what happened last time

My psychiatrist, community nurse, social worker and supported living manager all think I should take it. I disagree because I know I havent got anything wrong with me they just like to keep me within their control.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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Last time I was issued the recall the day after I missed the second appointment and the police was called after they left. So I'm going on personal experience what happened last time

My psychiatrist, community nurse, social worker and supported living manager all think I should take it. I disagree because I know I havent got anything wrong with me they just like to keep me within their control.
ah I see.

In that case, I would just be cooperative and ask politely for a Review. I know sometimes this can be super hard but it is a really good way to prove that you actually NEED a Review.

Good luck. Could you turn up to the clinic in the meantime to avoid all the Forcible hoopla, if your police are anything like mine they will kick you on your way into the police car.
 
Hwy2Well

Hwy2Well

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Can you get legal help? Is an atty provided for you if you are non-compliant?
Do you really want to go to jail? Isn't there someone who can work with you towards a solution: social worker, Atty.?

It seems no-win for you, plus the hassle of being incarcerated. Can't you do the very least to comply and in the meantime get help in getting this court ordered Med adjusted/eliminated?
 
N

nightmare57

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I lost my appeal November just gone.
 
F

fidget

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What are you hoping will happen by refusing the depot nightmare57? It sounds like you think it is just putting off the inevitable as you are asking about paliperidone and being kept overnight. The CTO is there so they can force you so unfortunately it means that if you refuse they will force you. I'm so sorry, it's torturous being "treated" against your will but sadly, seeing as you lost your appeal, the quickest way to make it stop is to quietly and calmly comply with them. If you tell them you agree you are ill and need the medication they are much more likely to take you off the CTO sooner. It is a matter of playing mind games with them because really they have all the control. Best of luck to you, it sounds like you are stuck in a horrible trap, i really feel for you
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

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What are you hoping will happen by refusing the depot nightmare57? It sounds like you think it is just putting off the inevitable as you are asking about paliperidone and being kept overnight. The CTO is there so they can force you so unfortunately it means that if you refuse they will force you. I'm so sorry, it's torturous being "treated" against your will but sadly, seeing as you lost your appeal, the quickest way to make it stop is to quietly and calmly comply with them. If you tell them you agree you are ill and need the medication they are much more likely to take you off the CTO sooner. It is a matter of playing mind games with them because really they have all the control. Best of luck to you, it sounds like you are stuck in a horrible trap, i really feel for you
It is True, the Whole thing is a Game, But some people don't see it. i've walked out of locked wards / secure units & off a 6 month section 3 by playing the Game. It didn't take that long to work out the basics of how it all operates. No one is going to beat the system.

Read some Charles Bronson (The Prisoner) for an example of a pathetic & wasted life spent aimlessly fighting the system.

cant beat the system go with the flow - YouTube
 
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BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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Edmund Kemper killed his parents, got sent to a psychiatric institution, learnt to Play The Game so well he became an Inmate Orderly which enabled him to read everyones notes and figure out What To Say, Did So, got released, then became one of the worst serial killers of the last century.

All because he fooled some psychs.

However, OP, back to your topic - I agree, at this stage probably getting Legal Help would be the logical next step.

If I were you I'd present for my jab this time, and work another Review, just because one was refused doesn't mean you aren't entitled to another, and another and so on.
 
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M

mrspoon

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I would do what they say, they will just force you if you don't. As others say,play the game. I would also add, perhaps pretend you like their company, pretend to get dependent on them. Say you see them as friends.Do whatever they say,the moment they say it. Act really submissive. I only say that because they think I might have a personality disorder, they know I have PTSD and anxiety disorder. And for a while they kept on going on about 'dependency' on services and how I should not get attached to any of them.It did grate on me a bit as my first ever appointment with my new care coordinator ,she even said don't get dependent. I would understand if I had been on her books for a while,but first appointment?

But for some reason they have stopped doing that now,no talk about me having a 'choice' in feeling upset or whatever.It's weird how they move the goal posts.

They might drop you like a hot potato if you act like you have fallen in love with them. My old psychiatrist told me I would be on anti psychotics the rest of my life, when I dared question whether I needed to be on them.A year later he took me off everything cold turkey. In my case, I didn't try mind games really, I just get such bad side effects, he had to refer me to a plastic surgeon at one point, because I grew breast tissue thanks to the drugs.He started to get letters from the plastic surgeon saying, unless he takes me off the drug she can't operate.

He tried another I was getting panic attacks and ending up in A and E. I became a gigantic pain in his arrse,and one day he just said 'I think we have both had enough of you and medication'. He made out it was me 'intolerant' to the meds. But I just kept my mouth shut.
 
N

nightmare57

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Mar 12, 2016
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My care coordinator came around today and has issued my CTO recall papers and expecting the police to arrive at any moment.

When I arrive at the hospital can they force the injection straight away or do they have to wait for the AMHP to put me back on the section 3 before they can inject me?

I can still access my mobile phone so can read messages from people while in hospital, Any advice I would be most grateful.
 
Shadow-one

Shadow-one

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I'm so sorry nightmare but I haven't a clue..
I just wanted to text you to offer a bit of support..
Let us know what happens and try and get through it as quickly and safely as possible..
 
Nikita

Nikita

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They may have to section you before giving you the injection nightmare.Just let them give it to you is my advice,if you resist they can force you by law to have it,that won't be pleasant if you resist.
Just play the game and cooperate and do what you can to agree with them is my advice.I am sorry!Keep your spirits up,you have time to get off this CTO and that is what you will do in the end.
 
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