The NHS simply make people worse

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Chrisw321990

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#41
Improving access to psychological therapies


I want to have some councelling first and try to find out how to progress along. The thing is I have a lot of congetive and social defects which don't help me at all. It's gonna be a long recovery but hopefully I be recovered soon
 
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JasonR28

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#42
The thing though is how does underfunding make staff liars?

I would like to think NHS staff work there because they genuinely want to make a difference. Wages are an incentive but when you work with vulnerable people, making a difference should be a big reason why they got into that work.

What is seen though many times over are NHS staff who are willing to sacrifice patients health and wellbeing just to save their own skin. Like CBT therapists.... Many times people are forced to take CBT weather it's a suitable treatment for them or not.

If it doesn't work, then what should happen is it's noted on record, the patient is discharged back to their GP and they can try some other treatment. What actually happens in a lot of cases though is the therapist knows doing this will result in their boss having words with them in the office.

This is because unsuccessful treatments are not good for statistics and can affect their funding, and rightfully so. If a mental health trust isn't doing well enough to help patients then they should be faced with having to improve their service or face funding cuts.

To avoid this, therapists will lie on reports by making out progress has been made even if it hasn't. Which then makes it even harder for a patient to get the right help because when they go back to their GP, the GP is under the impression they are better because CBT worked.
 
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doogie

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#44
The thing though is how does underfunding make staff liars?

I would like to think NHS staff work there because they genuinely want to make a difference. Wages are an incentive but when you work with vulnerable people, making a difference should be a big reason why they got into that work.

What is seen though many times over are NHS staff who are willing to sacrifice patients health and wellbeing just to save their own skin. Like CBT therapists.... Many times people are forced to take CBT weather it's a suitable treatment for them or not.

If it doesn't work, then what should happen is it's noted on record, the patient is discharged back to their GP and they can try some other treatment. What actually happens in a lot of cases though is the therapist knows doing this will result in their boss having words with them in the office.

This is because unsuccessful treatments are not good for statistics and can affect their funding, and rightfully so. If a mental health trust isn't doing well enough to help patients then they should be faced with having to improve their service or face funding cuts.

To avoid this, therapists will lie on reports by making out progress has been made even if it hasn't. Which then makes it even harder for a patient to get the right help because when they go back to their GP, the GP is under the impression they are better because CBT worked.
I agree... if you pay attention to the mental health staffs behaviours all the time you will notice that it is almost always about their own needs. You will often see things like:
- cpns smoozing up to their superiors,
-cpns using passive aggression to strategically cover themselves against any complaint they think you might put in against them
- ignorance of feedback and stating your own needs
*and many unethical behaviours

When you really look and notice, to a large degree it is corrupt and often the staff have just found themselves a comfortable job/place to spend their working life where they can dominate the people around them (patients) and be easily in control while playing the hero to the vulnerable to feed their ego.

This is my experience anyway.

I have often felt like I have been in more of a legal battle or competitive colleague (employment) relationship with my CPN instead of a carer patient one.

Probably my favourite example is when my cpn blatantly took the piss out of me basically calling me dumb and then when I mentioned it, once by text (ignored - management technique, never write anything down which may provide evidence) and once in person when she responded that I wont be able to understand what she was doing because it is sophisticated training that she has received so there is no way that I would understand.

I have loads more examples than this where she has shown an abominable level of snobbery and looking down on me.
 
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JasonR28

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#45
That is shocking doogie but yeah it really doesn't surprise me at all.

I can relate entirely to that. Once I was accused of "attention seeking", yes they actually used that exact phrase. I complained about things and surprise surprise they didn't write down that they said that to me. Actually I think that was the time when a colleague investigating phoned me up and repeatedly called me a liar because it wasn't noted. Well, the person wouldn't have noted it because they know they could get in trouble.

This sort of behaviour can screw up people's heads massively.

Imagine someone where there anxiety makes them blame everything on themselves. They believe they are a failure, useless and it's all their fault. Then they see someone for help and are told they are making excuses, attention seeking, being silly and not trying hard enough.

That could really f**k someone up big time because they will go home thinking "see, I knew it was all me, even the NHS agree, I'm useless and might as well just end my life now".
 
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Chrisw321990

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#46
Another thing I find is that you tell them everything and they seem to downplay it. For example you tell them about your past they don't acknowledge it and just say his got complex difficulties.

Then says to you I can't tell IAPT as they get anxious to meet you so basicly telling yo my face yes you got problems but I down play it so you can get help which will be the wrong kind of help if that makes sence
 
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doogie

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#47
That is shocking doogie but yeah it really doesn't surprise me at all.

I can relate entirely to that. Once I was accused of "attention seeking", yes they actually used that exact phrase. I complained about things and surprise surprise they didn't write down that they said that to me. Actually I think that was the time when a colleague investigating phoned me up and repeatedly called me a liar because it wasn't noted. Well, the person wouldn't have noted it because they know they could get in trouble.

This sort of behaviour can screw up people's heads massively.

Imagine someone where there anxiety makes them blame everything on themselves. They believe they are a failure, useless and it's all their fault. Then they see someone for help and are told they are making excuses, attention seeking, being silly and not trying hard enough.

That could really f**k someone up big time because they will go home thinking "see, I knew it was all me, even the NHS agree, I'm useless and might as well just end my life now".

this is exactly right. they are treating vulnerable people with self esteem issues whose main problems are only seeing their own faults. It makes it a black comedy that they make you feel even more vulnerable cus they can get away with murder if they want to.

I progressed to only communicating with them in writing (if they cant write it down then they shouldn't be saying it- is the truth in a patient carer relationship) and guess what they deem it paranoia. It is just my preference eh. Are you getting a picture of how vulnerable mental patients really are......Mental health staffs behaviour have often led me to believe that they have at times been trying to induce worsening mental health/ psychosis in me. They often try and induce vulnerability.
 
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doogie

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#48
Another thing I find is that you tell them everything and they seem to downplay it. For example you tell them about your past they don't acknowledge it and just say his got complex difficulties.

Then says to you I can't tell IAPT as they get anxious to meet you so basicly telling yo my face yes you got problems but I down play it so you can get help which will be the wrong kind of help if that makes sence
It makes total sense. They are basically employed to not recognise your needs and to try and maneuver you away from your nature. Which is wrong.
 
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doogie

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#49
Improving access to psychological therapies


I want to have some councelling first and try to find out how to progress along. The thing is I have a lot of congetive and social defects which don't help me at all. It's gonna be a long recovery but hopefully I be recovered soon
Just be carefull that the are giving you quality and valid info rather than just brain washing you with oversimplified bullshit.

I once had a psychologist sitting there repeating me 'dont think its proven not to be good for us, while she said it louder and louder and intensified it. I complained that it was poor quality of information ( like reading the daily mail or summut). Not qualified, not quantified, not validified... clearly oversimplified level of infiormation.

Disgusting. Brain washing.
 
daffy

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#50
I have very little time for NHS psychologists I think most of them are useless. And have no real empathy with the problems your going thru. I’ve only ever had one really good one that helped me. Most of them just sit there chewing on a pencil, head on one side saying ‘hmmmm and how did that make you feel’
Like throwing you thru the bloody window mate

When I complained to my pdoc about how bad he was he then sent a letter to her saying I should never have been referred and was not ready or willing for help.
My pdoc was furious with him.
 
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doogie

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#51
Im now waiting for them to attempt to medicate just for the purposes of them being able to treat me...…. in these circumstances, what the fuck do they believe that they are achieving.

Obviously they will not be able to say it out right that that is what they are doing but it is clear to me that that is what the are manoevring towards. They will manipulate things in that direction if they want to......and there is very little that you can do.

What they never acknowledge is that it is only them that is spiking a reaction from u. I think they beleiv that if you are reacting to them then you are definitely going to come un stuck in the general population.

I know them as bold liers to say the least
 
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Chrisw321990

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#52
I
Just be carefull that the are giving you quality and valid info rather than just brain washing you with oversimplified bullshit.

I once had a psychologist sitting there repeating me 'dont think its proven not to be good for us, while she said it louder and louder and intensified it. I complained that it was poor quality of information ( like reading the daily mail or summut). Not qualified, not quantified, not validified... clearly oversimplified level of infiormation.

Disgusting. Brain washing.

I have been trying to go via other channels mind are over strenched and keep telling me to call to check for next slot after a while it gets to much

The others keep saying you to complex to meet the needs of our service

I can't afford £60 to £100 a hour. It probley cost me £1200 plus to get the councelling them it's gonna be more treatment to atleast be somewhat function all
 
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ramboghettouk

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#53
when i had nhs psychotherapy they said his ambivalemce about recovery makes it impossible to find a focus for therapy he makes comments like "what will they (those who administer the benefit system) make of it if i get better

My issue is the nhs on drug recovery it isn't a fit for work recovery so your still required to claim benefits for which you have to argue illlness, i have incidentally worked on drugs, the comment was the drugs control the worse excesses of the illness but they aren't cure, those were social workers in a social work office so presumably they're right
 
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ramboghettouk

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#54
incidentally the above is not what they tell lunatics to their face when they're encouraging them to get well enough they can close the case, they;ll say they can get bettter and work, closing cases thats the main aim of social services
 
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JasonR28

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#55
Another thing I find is that you tell them everything and they seem to downplay it.
That means a lot to me with not being alone. I have experienced that.

For 1 example of many.... I am known to be suicidal. Due to circumstances, having meds in my possession is a huge risk in my circumstances.

They ignored all of that, saying I'm being silly, making excuses, and so on. They wrote in the report that I had agreed to go back on meds (they lied and ignored what I was saying to them). Went back on meds and within 2 weeks I was in hospital.

Yet that again is me being silly and I got that whole patronising speech from NHS staff "There's lots of help out there, don't do this again"
 
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ramboghettouk

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#56
to be fair nhs bashing is all very well, but is the american system better if your in poverty? i suspect even with no nhs they'd still drug people up, it's cheaper than locking them up
 
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#57
I



I have been trying to go via other channels mind are over strenched and keep telling me to call to check for next slot after a while it gets to much

The others keep saying you to complex to meet the needs of our service

I can't afford £60 to £100 a hour. It probley cost me £1200 plus to get the councelling them it's gonna be more treatment to atleast be somewhat function all
Perhaps you could request a personal health budget. Take a read of this web page: NHS England » Personal health budgets for mental health
 
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JasonR28

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#58
to be fair nhs bashing is all very well, but is the american system better if your in poverty? i suspect even with no nhs they'd still drug people up, it's cheaper than locking them up

Well, that can depend. The NHS for many with MH problems is an irrelevant service because they don't use it. It might as well be that they can't afford it.

MIND hit the nail on the head with something they said a while back. It was along the lines of if someone with MH problems is misdiagnosed, not given the right help or forced to take a type of help which isn't suitable for them, it makes people lose trust in the NHS and can cause serious harm to that patient because they will be very reluctant to seek help again in the future.

Loads of people like myself had that experience and so have completely disengaged with them altogether, even for non MH related stuff, because after all, MH problems can be the most painful thing to experience and with them untreated, people find it hard to go to a GP, sit there and not mention one word about MH as they talk about other issues.
 
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jonjon

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#59
Not as bad in Scotland,but no doubt cuts are coming.

For MH issues, best contact one of many support charities.

They did how ever mess up after my accident.

Sprained ankle told at A&E, back work.

Felt stupid, month later, something not right. Moon boot.

Brilliant a year in it. Sent to other hospital, year later.

Foot crushed, nerve damage, ligaments not healed. In for op. Oh too late, just removed bones.

Then 6 months later, read in report, my brain injury never cleared up, as is getting worse.oh thanks for telling,me.

And as I have chronic pain because off mess up, all the MH issues now go along with it.

Accident bad enough, but serious pain thinking all in my head. Cheers
 
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ramboghettouk

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#60
Well, that can depend. The NHS for many with MH problems is an irrelevant service because they don't use it. It might as well be that they can't afford it.

MIND hit the nail on the head with something they said a while back. It was along the lines of if someone with MH problems is misdiagnosed, not given the right help or forced to take a type of help which isn't suitable for them, it makes people lose trust in the NHS and can cause serious harm to that patient because they will be very reluctant to seek help again in the future.

Loads of people like myself had that experience and so have completely disengaged with them altogether, even for non MH related stuff, because after all, MH problems can be the most painful thing to experience and with them untreated, people find it hard to go to a GP, sit there and not mention one word about MH as they talk about other issues.
Well, that can depend. The NHS for many with MH problems is an irrelevant service because they don't use it. It might as well be that they can't afford it.

but the rich can still afford alternatives and hold them in front of poor sods like me as the panacea to all evils, same as america
 
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