The Cognitive Self Abuse Thread

Roscoe

Roscoe

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#1
So I took the - heal thyself - approach to dealing with my shit. I'm of the impression that some other posters here have gone the same route. The first hurdle I found myself presented with was coming up with some kind of semantic interface to my mind/consciousness in order to observe and explore the jumbled up bullshit that goes on in there.

Over the course of more than a decade and a half I've examined a whole plethora of bizarre and esoteric shit, looking for little glimmers of anything that looked useful and adopting this or that facet to suit my model, to the point where nowadays you'd need to be versed in dozens of different fringe-systems plus a fair few "scientific" disciplines, just in order for me to explain to you exactly how I'm feeling right now.

The answer would almosy certainly be a jumbled up mixture of freudian, jungian, ancient egytian, cabbalistic and tantric terminology, with a side order of new-age mumbo jumbo and some other shit that probably doesn't make sense to anyone except me.

Since the internet happened I've come across articles, videos, bizarre religions and far fetched conspiracy theory and I'm still only scratching the surface, coming up with my own unified mind theory from chunks of this, that and the next thing.

This thread is for anyone who does it like I do, to post descriptions of, or links to, anything we might find interesting. And discussions thereof.

Any fellow reality tunnel builders want to join in?
 
Roscoe

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#3
Okay so here's something I've been wondering about. I'm smart. Wicked smart. I've always wondered if this is related to bipolar. I'm a particular kind of smart. Ideas generation. I make connections where, logically speaking, there aren't any. Crowley talks about cultivating genius as a faculty of mind, rather than (I dunno) divinely inspired or whatever the traditional explanation is. Einstein, Van Gogh, Spike Milligan ... many more ... all had a screw loose. Side effect or catalyst? Thoughts?
 
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#4
Okay so here's something I've been wondering about. I'm smart. Wicked smart. I've always wondered if this is related to bipolar. I'm a particular kind of smart. Ideas generation. I make connections where, logically speaking, there aren't any. Crowley talks about cultivating genius as a faculty of mind, rather than (I dunno) divinely inspired or whatever the traditional explanation is. Einstein, Van Gogh, Spike Milligan ... many more ... all had a screw loose. Side effect or catalyst? Thoughts?
Leaving aside psychiatric nosology - I do feel that certain experiences of madness/non-ordinary states can potentially lead to increased awareness, insight, different perspectives, creative thinking etc. I don't think it's confined to any specific 'diagnosis'. Certain experiences of madness, extreme emotional/mental states, psychosis/depression etc I feel does cross over into mystical, esoteric, spiritual etc areas; especially in the way such states are responded to/addressed. I do feel that there is an enormous potential in certain of these states/experiences. The current mainstream approaches - to suppress it all, pathologise it all & load up on mind numbing chemicals - I don't think does people much favours. There is a place for all that - but things also should be comprehensive enough in approach to allow people to go into & work through stuff, to explore their experiences safely, & to help people through things; & in doing so there is the potential for a lot of growth. In part also it is what the individual does with it all too. Despite, or maybe because of the pain, suffering & these states - people can learn & grow.

I'm not Einstein, very far from it - But I do what I can to exercise the mind, to learn, to read, to practise stuff, to try & better myself from where/who I have been. I try to go into & work through stuff, to process stuff, to resolve stuff, to learn about stuff. I don't suppose that there is really a right or a wrong with it all? Whatever people are drawn to - I see so much of interest & so many areas to look into & explore.

That's my take anyway - I've always been fascinated with madness.

Iron Maiden - Can I Play With Madness - YouTube
 
Roscoe

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#5
Ha, I love that tune. I tend toward a holistic approach, too. "Madness". Indeed, but this is considered primitive. Nowadays we compartmentalise symptoms and give them names. "Bipolar", they said to me. Fair enough, that described what was happening to me in a generalised way but this was a symptom. As Melvin Udall says in As Good as it Gets, "I'm drowning here and you're describing the water"

Bipolar was a symptom, caused by the busted bits. Understanding what was busted and how best to repair or patch up the busted bits, the madness? No one I met was interested in that. They were too busy trying to make the symptoms stop by fucking with the chemistry of an already fucked consciousness.

I got the distinct impression that they had, at best, a rudimentary understanding of some of the more obvious psychological mechanisms at play but were completely ignorant of much of what was going on. Stuff that I could see quite clearly but had no language to communicate.
 
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#6
Exactly - why do so few see & acknowledge it all? It is things that should be revered/held sacred. 'Modern 'man'' are the real primitives.
 
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#7
This make any sense?

I have my subconscious life of feelings, the physical feeling emotional response to life. Then there is my conscious reactions to them, the first voice responder of my mind.

I've tried to insert another level that observes them. Taking a step back and observing from above sounds like something outside myself, but it's not, it feels deeper within. Like a retreat deep into my chest or the top of my mind, like when you breathe in through you nose deeply and feel the air inhale not just into your lungs but into the top and rear of your head too.

I find it very difficult to explain, but there is a new part of me I've created or gotten in touch with that knows what's happening when the chaos kicks off and can't be touched by it. When I can access it it just watches me, but is me. Probably more me than the rest of me it's watching.

Think it's most defined when I have prolonged experiences of persecutory voices. Everything looks and feels the same, but there's a small pocket of knowing calmness observing it. I'd like to find a way to expand it over time, to engulf what it watches.
 
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#9
I don't know what I call that part. I think I got there out of necessity, I think it's what people talk about when they speak about observing their thoughts come and go during meditation. It sounds like that space, but in part not all of me. I think hearing voices meant I worked my way there during the opposite circumstances I tend to read of though. I had hours and hours every day of them for years. I had to find something or create it, but didn't have access to any frameworks at the time.

It's like there was a dual dialogue in the conscious mind when it was happening, one reacting to what I was hearing and one saying "it's not real". It's like the "it's not real" stopped fighting, and then that or something else elevated to watching. It's quite surreal. Everything else still feels the exactly the same when it happens.

It's not till relatively recently I made the link to the meditation experiences of others. It just felt like I'd gained experience of the situation. But I don't think it's that now. It sounds too similar, but because those concepts are relatively new to me and the different route I took it's taken a long time to make the link. To think in the spirituality thread I was saying I didn't want to meditate because of the noise I might find has brought a little chuckle now :)

I think maybe I think of it most as mindfulness out of what I've come across, but I've come across a very limited amount of that material. Just observing and letting things happen rather than reacting and fighting them seems the best way to put what happens.
 
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#10
Just observing and letting things happen rather than reacting and fighting them seems the best way to put what happens.
Yea, As Is, allowance, acceptance, in the moment, it's a calmness, a serenity (regardless of what else is going on), a dropping into the space kind of thing, something beyond the mind. It doesn't matter trying to define it, it doesn't really matter what explanations are on it, just that it is something that helps us function & live with things. There are a myriad of ways I think it can be pointed to, or described - but nothing really explains it in the sense of experiencing it. Being, Reality, Truth, Higher Self, Authentic Self, Tao, Awareness, Spirituality, Soul, Spirit - I'm not sure; it's beyond words. I've touched on it all many times in my life, during all kinds of experiences. The more I focus on it, with various practises, it does appear to help.

God is the space between atoms.
 
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#11
Did you get there via the distressed route or via a more calm accessing, or over both during the years? If both have you found it to be the same it. I'm wondering if I've been meditating or something closely related for years but not known it because the guys I've watched talk about it took a pretty different route. I wasn't/am not exactly pulling out a matt and chilling out.

When people like Matthieu Ricard, Eckhart Tolle and Jon Kabat-Zinn do their Youtube talks it wasn't really that easy to immediately relate the two things lol
 
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#13
Did you get there via the distressed route or via a more calm accessing, or over both during the years? If both have you found it to be the same it. I'm wondering if I've been meditating or something closely related for years but not known it because the guys I've watched talk about it took a pretty different route. I wasn't/am not exactly pulling out a matt and chilling out.
With all kinds of stuff. As a kid, when I was very young, around nature, moments during total psychosis, I remember one night in hospital when I was first sectioned, a moment of very deep peace, there were a few occasions of that during those experiences. It's not been sustained, it's been moments & glimpses of it all, but am starting to see it all again.

People can & do spontaneously experience such states - not just seasoned meditators.

When people like Matthieu Ricard, Eckhart Tolle and Jon Kabat-Zinn do their Youtube talks it wasn't really that easy to immediately relate the two things lol
Yea - it's the language. Finger pointing at the moon (don't confuse the finger for the moon!).
 
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OMG. I've tried to read this thread, I have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds very enlightening!

Note to self...... Must buy more books....

:)
 
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#15
Did you get there via the distressed route or via a more calm accessing, or over both during the years? If both have you found it to be the same it. I'm wondering if I've been meditating or something closely related for years but not known it because the guys I've watched talk about it took a pretty different route. I wasn't/am not exactly pulling out a matt and chilling out.

When people like Matthieu Ricard, Eckhart Tolle and Jon Kabat-Zinn do their Youtube talks it wasn't really that easy to immediately relate the two things lol
This is very curious.
I DO think you are talkinga bout the same as a meditative state.
That state of watchfulness doesn't just happen while sitting down cross-legged, it can be applied to any activity (if you are some kind of guru or tirthankar:rolleyes:)
I tried meditation for years and never really managed it (once or twice in 5 years did I reach any kind of calm)/

But since I went schizo-affective I find it much easier to reach a state of not thinking and just watching.

I think some of us have minds that are simply too engaged to meditate properly. Some lucky people just need to sit down for a bit and chill out, but others...
we need a shock to get us out of our heads.
 
Roscoe

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#16
The way I see it I have, at my core, an infinitesimal point of observance. Around this core is a whole bunch of complex thoughts and emotions which serve to filter my reality to the observer. Everything but the observer is false. It's made up but it's so complex and interdependent that it's almost managed to convince itself it's real. This is what I commonly refer to as "Me" my personality, my hopes and dreams and ambitions. It's all make believe but the observer enjoys it anyway.

What my complex and bizarre personality wants now (maybe it always did) is to be closer to the observer, more pure, less of a filter and more like a lense. So, realising that my whole personality was doing a shit job of this and knowing also that my whole personality is false, I set about changing it for something that worked better.

Changing is the easy part. Convincing the mind that this is possible, let alone desirable is the tricky bit. The mind finds comfort in habits. Even bad ones.
 
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