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Struggling to see the good in people...

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AppletreeConfusion

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When you read the responses in this thread, do you see people confronting you or being empathic?
Well to be 100% honest, girlinterupted saying "I'm really sorry you are going through this." I would describe as empathic, also your words seem to be an expression of concern and empathy.

Also when she said this:
You can’t force people into being what they are not. That’s half the reason for human conflict, trying to get others to behave how you think they should.
I don't know what you think I'm forcing people to be, all it is is a dislike of selfish people. I just expect what would be considered common decency.

Is it not clear that half the reason there isn't more conflict is due to empathy for others? If there is one thing we should expect from others its to care about one another, it's not anything terrible to expect. Once this goes out the window, where shojld we draw the line? I mean the US has a vastly superior firepower, should they use it on mexico to get jem to pay the border wall? Should they have used napalm in veitnam? It's probably good to feel disgust for that, and to expect order, because it's actually what prevents conflict.
 
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Almost always in love

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I think you need a place to express all the thoughts you have.

You need somebody to talk to or write to, maybe the same person, whom you can write and talk to. Preferably a professional, who will be able to understand when you react to things he or she says.

The way I read you, I see a deep fear and I dont know if you might not feel this fear at all.
Saying that in the context, that I have experienced thoughts very similar to the ones you have now.

You really really need somebody.

It is peril that you get this help. It can change everything for you. It takes a very long time to talk your way through all these thoughts and emotions - but you will come out on the other side and will look at yourself and other people differently from what you do now. And the world will start feeling like a much more fun place to be in, when that happens.

One thing, that is not much I can offer because I am not professional and do not want to accidentally step into a role like that - is to tell you that.. peoples brains are wired differently from person to person.

Some people cant do what you wish they could do or feel the things you wish they would.
It is simply not biologically possible for them.

This does not make them worse people, it is just the way it is.

If you ever feel like some people must be another species than yourself - its actually not all that dumb to think so.
Not because they are, they are still humans, but the way our brains work.. it can be so so different from person to person.

And what I want to say is much much to early to deal with, I know.

But forgiveness is the only way.
You will find that the day you forgive people for not always being everything you wish they could be - you will gain a sense of freedom - when you are around them.

Also because.. you will know, that day, you will know, that it is also okay that you are the way you are. That you can not always be, what the world want you to be.

We all share that same boat.

We are all full of flaws. We just sometimes manage to stumble into people where our flaws is not such a big deal.
 
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Nukelavee

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Is it not clear that half the reason there isn't more conflict is due to empathy for others?
Maybe. Likely. But - empathy isn't always good, simply being able to relate to another doesn't mean you can't be unkind or unfair. And very empathetic people can be manipulative or cruel, too.
 
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AppletreeConfusion

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Yes, we can all be unkind and unfair, or insensitive idiots, but all I know is it isn't necessarily a strong trait, and It can definitely work both ways, sooner or later someone is going to get into a position of power, and they will tear all of the rules down. Don't start thinking empathy is bad, or arguing the opposite, because there are countless more reasons it isn't and the vast majority of people suffer in one way or another because of it, even though we all like to pretend we are not selfish.

Thankfully, there are reasonable people in the world also, and there are people with feelings for others (even if they don't relate to them), so there are ways that the risk of total annihilation can be mitigated. An alien race might come down and compliment us and our progress, but despite their vastly superior technology, they may have lost the need for conflict due to evolution and perhaps a complete dominance of their world, but they would warn us of the same things I am here. We need to get rid of the nukes and stop global warming, if we don't do this, given enough time we will simply fry ourselves like mindless idiots. Empathy has evolved, and is more developed in humans than many other species, and it does seem related to intelligence - yes there are cases where an entire elephant family dies trying to save a loved one - but I think for it to have evolved is a good thing because it can be used to have feelings for generations not yet born, or even those different from ourselves; it can even shield us from retaliatory action. Try to see it as perhaps a good trait that can be nurtured in our cultures, selfishness could die out in the species as we become an integrated unit, where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts - like is already the case with human beings.

There is a lot of social tension in society that is a bit mindless also, our natural selfish tendency, even in economically free countries has lead to severe wealth inequalities which trigger other human emotions such as envy and a sense of unfairness at the inequity, historically this has even led to rebellion, and perhaps holds some societies back if they feel that success isn't fair and not being shared adequately. I think envy is bad, but so is selfishness, and there are reasons for this - nothing in society was built or provided entirely by you, you have relied on others to do their part and the division of labor leads to greater power overall. We want each other to be productive and happy, particularly if they serve us, or do the menial work we don't want to do, and we want things to be efficient and diverse, obviously. Likewise we also want our boss to continue to want to employ us, and to have the capacity to.

To become desensitized or to see it as a bad thing is wrong, if someone dies in a fire saving a baby or drowns attempting to save a dog or a stranger from a river, in a sense this is also admirable, but this is what we also what to nurture within culture, rather than the insensitivity - because that is what leads to real conflict. I don't think too much empathy is the problem. I think we are kind of rationalizing our selfishness more often, rather than the other way around - getting the right balance is key. We can all take a step back to ask ourselves, is the kneejerk selfish way the correct one? Do people like selfish behavior? the answer is that they generally don't but the majority are also hypocrites.
 
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Almost always in love

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I can imagine people have asked you to loosen up a little towards others. I know people in my past used to do that, when Id make a nice speech about the unreasonable nature of humans and how everything was going to shit in this world, because.. stupid humans.

But thing is humans are humans. For better or worse, including all the paradoxes that our mental psyke and biology cause and therefore inevitably shows in our behavior and different ways of thinking.
And we can forgive them and ourselves on different levels, depending on how far or close they are to us.

Which is easier said than done.

I dont like strangers either, to tell you the truth. I hate new people. They scare the shit out of me for the most part. Unless of course they look attractive, have a nice hygiene and is just generally nice, respectful and considerate..

Not everybody are those things.. that is just the way it is.

And believe it or not, somebody will love the people we do not like. Other people out there need them and love them and want them in their lives.

Id advice trying to remember that, when you start to intellectualize.
Which only hurts yourself, cause you are the one in pain from these thoughts.
It is not the people, whom you consider less deserving, that are in pain.

You are.

I do not remember what the tecnique is called. I should find out, cause I need this tool myself. But there is some kind of course, that can teach us to stop ourselves and our counterproductive thoughts, when we head out in negative thoughts about others.

Dialectic something or the other. Somebody around here should know something.

Apparently going through these courses are life-changers for many people.

Its bascially a tool to learn how to stop thinking.
When it is more beneficial to not do so. To be able to handle life in general without thinking ourselves into anger, depression or stress.
 
Linda1989

Linda1989

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So I'm a 29 year old male, and unfortunately I'm alone; I'm alone because anyone I've ever been friends with, have ever tried to be friends with, or reached out to has ultimately hurt and rejected me - without fail. The only girlfriend I've every had was a unique example of someone that seemed to care, but unfortunately this was just someone leading me on just to cause me harm later on... this is a recurring theme for me, and all these past experiences boil down to me forming a number of very negative beliefs about other people (known as 'schemas' in the psych literature), the worrying thing for me is my attempts to disprove these hypotheses fail after I take into account the ultimate result of peoples actions and words - and not simply their words alone. New people I reach out to regarding my mental health have all started to block or avoid or ignore me, and I'm honestly getting quite worried about how isolated I'm becoming, no-one seems to care at all, no-one is allowed to care and it's really unfortunate how isolated and alone I am. I need to see some concrete evidence there are other decent human beings out there, similar to me and capable of understanding things, but I'm struggling to find any, and it worries me to see how easily people are seduced by nonsense, it's like nothing I do makes any difference and it's all taken for granted. All I manage to find is 'polite' people who just ultimately make my mental health (I know it sounds terrible, but the hope is I'm wrong)... the things people say and the reality just doesn't match up, and my mind just picks everything apart, understands it, and leaves me frustrated when people misunderstand and ultimately just prove me right, again and again, without fail. I would never say what my beliefs are, but they are very negative, and they allow me to predict peoples behaviour before they do it, and quite frankly, people shouldn't be acting like a bunch deterministic machines, and I shouldn't have to treat them that way. 😕

I know I must be wrong - and I want to be more than anything - I just need to see it for myself...

I've kind of give away a lot here, and I know it sounds bad, when I tell people it pushes them away - but that just reifnforces my negative beliefs, unfortunately. I know I must be wrong, I just need to see there are people out there who would genuinely want to help others out for the right reasons.
People are still stuck in high school they want to be around the cool crowd, trust me i seen in jobs, churches and i even seen it in the mental hospital with the mental patients. When i was in school people would only hang with me if i had a lot friends now its just the same with people who are way older than me, its kind of pathetic. This world is like a big high school, it makes you sick seeing older people treating young people that way.
 
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AppletreeConfusion

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I really don't think it's just me that's concerned about these things. Human beings are iherently violent and power hungry (although often we want to dent this), and yes we associate with some people better than others, but I think we are all guilty of being a bit selfish, and I think most people dislike selfishness really so we can all start with ourselves, because that is the person we have the most control over when it comes to whether our behaviour would cause harm or help others. If the roles were reversed, how would we honestly feel? Just stop and think about things, because we are all guilty of being selfish in one way or another. Personally, my goal seems to be happiness all round, but obviously there is a bias towards myself. What goes around comes around in many cases.

I've read a bit about dialectic behavioural therapy, but I really need to buy a good book on the topic to properly study it - I like that it incorporates mindfulness.

A lot of this stuff is painful to dwell on but there are some valid points of our own self inflicted problems and tensions in society, but a good thing about our species is that we are problem solvers. Tensions can lead to conflict later on down the road, the world is a fragile thing and we shouldn't take anything for granted really.
 
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