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Stop dehumanising narcissists 🙁

GretaVon

GretaVon

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I'd also be interested to know if @GretaVon is a registered psychiatrist or qualified psychologist.

I myself am neither, however qualification-wise, I'm OVER qualified to be a therapist but not qualified to be a psychologist.
I'm not.

Self taught.

Mainstream psychiatry is so poor when it comes to NPD, to the point that I'm pretty confident I recognize NPD better than most professionals.
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

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I'm not.

Self taught.

Mainstream psychiatry is so poor when it comes to NPD, to the point that I'm pretty confident I recognize NPD better than most professionals.
Of course.
 
slowturtle

slowturtle

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Just a thought I'm having and a quick question for us.

How did the nazi's convince the people that Jews were the enemy?
How did slavery exist for so long?
How do wars against poor countries become justified?

The answer is dehumanisation by use of labels.
Words are extremely powerful

 
T

turnitoffandonagain_again

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NPD stands out by being much more common than the others and mostly damaging to other people.
Is it really more common, than say, Borderline PD? (Genuine question, I don't know what the relative frequncies of PD diagnoses are). I agree it's mostly damaging to other people.

But who gets diagnosed with it and who doesn't? I grew up around people who without doubt met the criteria for antisocial PDs (not sure if NPD was the appropriate one, though). Their behavior was literally criminal (they just never got convicted).

But none got diagnosed, because none of them were in a sufficiently powerless position to end up being labelled by the mental health profession. Because they were in positions of power they evaded any such label - as have any number of powerful people throughout history (seems quite likely Hitler and Stalin had PDs of some sort, no? Maybe Pol Pot also?).

The Goldwater rule in the US explicitly protects powerful figures like Trump (or Nixon) from being labelled that way.

If we are talking about the clinical terms, it seems quite obvious that their use depends on questions of politics and power, there being little 'scientific' about them at all. Only certain classes of people are eligible to be so labelled.

If we are talking about the common English words like 'narcissist', that's just a personal moral, value judgement. Which people are absolutely entitled to make, but which others can disagree with or think is overused, according to fashion. "Narcissist" seems to be a particularly fashionable epithet these days, probably for sociological reasons, probably because the nature of contemporary society is to encourage or even demand narcissism. And also, in the US, because of that extreme reluctance to aknowledge any problems as being political or sociological in nature - everything has to be seen as an individual moral/psychological failing - presumably because the country as a whole must be considered flawless.
 
MollyBloom

MollyBloom

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I'm not.

Self taught.

Mainstream psychiatry is so poor when it comes to NPD, to the point that I'm pretty confident I recognize NPD better than most professionals.
I am pretty much confident that you suffer of hubris and are a beautiful example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Pretending to know better than experts is dangerous. We have seen similar people in similar cases like antivaxxers, climate sceptics and flat-earthers.

Medical school and years of training cannot be replaced by some YouTube videos. If you think so, then, you have too much hubris and I guess you know what happened with Ikaros …
 
ht46

ht46

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I use to have dunning kruger effect I'm glad I've gotten over it and still young enough to enjoy and look at life realistically, I did embarrass myself but what can you do.

I am pretty much confident that you suffer of hubris and are a beautiful example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Pretending to know better than experts is dangerous. We have seen similar people in similar cases like antivaxxers, climate sceptics and flat-earthers.

Medical school and years of training cannot be replaced by some YouTube videos. If you think so, then, you have too much hubris and I guess you know what happened with Ikaros …
 
ht46

ht46

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It pays to be acutely aware of you're circumstances even if it makes you depressed like me.
 
ht46

ht46

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Dunning krueger effect is funny, I use think I was going to make millions of dollars as a professional comic book artist and then I thought I was a political genius but I was just schizo, it's crazy how rampant this mentality in our current world I see it every time I check the news.
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

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I am pretty much confident that you suffer of hubris and are a beautiful example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Pretending to know better than experts is dangerous. We have seen similar people in similar cases like antivaxxers, climate sceptics and flat-earthers.

Medical school and years of training cannot be replaced by some YouTube videos. If you think so, then, you have too much hubris and I guess you know what happened with Ikaros …
Me thinks this "self-taught" expert (who declares herself a 3 on the Tudor scale of narcissism) is actually a 4 - NPD. Congrats.
 
GretaVon

GretaVon

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Is it really more common, than say, Borderline PD? (Genuine question, I don't know what the relative frequncies of PD diagnoses are). I agree it's mostly damaging to other people.
I'd say yes, and I'll tell you why I say that.

1. NPD is much more common that psychiatry estimates (1%), it is something like 5-10% in my book. Tudor says it's more than 15%, but I'm not exactly seeing that so I try to be conservative.

2. NPD individuals mostly pass for normal, semi-normal and very often functioning individuals, which means people don't notice them as disordered people. BPD is much more obvious as a disorder, therefore less of it is under the surface.

3. NPD in many cases helps rather than hinders the individual in terms of natural selection, so the genetics of NPD proliferate more than that of other disorders.
 
GretaVon

GretaVon

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But none got diagnosed, because none of them were in a sufficiently powerless position to end up being labelled by the mental health profession. Because they were in positions of power they evaded any such label - as have any number of powerful people throughout history (seems quite likely Hitler and Stalin had PDs of some sort, no? Maybe Pol Pot also?).
Indeed. Most narcs never get into the position of being diagnosed. Hitler was a Lesser, Stalin was a Greater. Don't know about Pol Pot except it is exceedingly likely that a person of that profile is a narc, unless it is something more serious like a psychopath.
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

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Hey Greta, who is the woman in your profile pic?
 
GretaVon

GretaVon

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I am pretty much confident that you suffer of hubris and are a beautiful example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Pretending to know better than experts is dangerous. We have seen similar people in similar cases like antivaxxers, climate sceptics and flat-earthers.

Medical school and years of training cannot be replaced by some YouTube videos. If you think so, then, you have too much hubris and I guess you know what happened with Ikaros …
I can appreciate you saying that. I did try to make sense of NPD in terms of regular psychiatry but what they had to offer failed to describe what I was observing. The Tudor model really brings it to life, especially the different schools of narcissists which psychiatry abjectly fails to describe.

The erratic behavior of prominent narcissists like Hitler or Goering becomes perfectly understandable in terms of the Tudor model, but psychiatry fails to describe what drives such characters to certain specific self-destructive acts.
 
GretaVon

GretaVon

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Me thinks this "self-taught" expert (who declares herself a 3 on the Tudor scale of narcissism) is actually a 4 - NPD. Congrats.
Ha - ha ;)

I maintain I'm not an NPD for the following reasons:

1. I have actually wondered on my own initiative if I am a narc, which is something narcs never do.

2. There have been instances where I have apologized for my behaviour without being prompted. VERY un-narc thing to do.

3. I feel very tangible guilt and shame when thinking back about having wronged someone in the past.

4. I am capable of love.
 

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