'Spiritual' people at higher risk of mental health problems.

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Eigau

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#21
Yes, I would agree with you there cpu. How we define spiritual health and how we define what is positive and negative may differ though.
 
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#22
Yes, I would agree with you there cpu. How we define spiritual health and how we define what is positive and negative may differ though.
It probably does differ.

Probably very hard to separate & individual/complex - i've had what i'd very much consider to be delusional spiritual/religious beliefs & also genuine spiritual experiences.
 
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#23
Same. I've had definitely genuine spiritual / religious experiences where I was aware / cognisant / knew what was going on (to a degree) - felt like I still had some control over the situation etc, and where beforehand and afterwards I had also been 'normal / sane' i.e functioning perfectly normally and carrying on with life as per usual.
I've also had strange mh related things happen to me and I would say the two are definitely not the same.
 
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#24
Were David Koresh, Jim Jones & many other such examples genuinely spiritual? Or could we say that there was some kind of pathology going on?
 
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Eigau

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#25
Yes, I agree with that. For JWs, a truly spiritual experience is one that shows us that God has maneuvered matters in such a way that it could only be him that made some event happen in our favour. For example, we may be about to leave the area we are preaching in, when someone will have the urge to do just one more house. In some cases, the householder was either desperate for help and praying to God or in one case, they were about to commit suicide. From our stand point it seems to indicate to us that God directed us to that house, even though we were initially going to leave.
 
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Eigau

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#26
Were David Koresh, Jim Jones & many other such examples genuinely spiritual? Or could we say that there was some kind of pathology going on?
That's a difficult one. Perhaps David honestly thought he was the messiah or maybe he was just using the mentality of the local people for selfish gain. Here in NZ there is a compound called Gloriavale, it's had a lot of attention lately.
 
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#27
Were David Koresh, Jim Jones & many other such examples genuinely spiritual? Or could we say that there was some kind of pathology going on?
Personally - and this is only my view from watching several documentaries about both of them, I would say that when one man (or woman) seeks to take the role of the 'only' way to God, or to claim to speak for God and no one else can or is speaking truth, then you're in the area of pathology and not spirituality.
I don't believe God limits the ways or the poeple that we can communicate with him, or he with us, and I don't believe we need an intermediary to connect to God. Ergo, anyone claiming that they are the only channel to God is on shaky ground.
 
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#28
Personally - and this is only my view from watching several documentaries about both of them, I would say that when one man (or woman) seeks to take the role of the 'only' way to God, or to claim to speak for God and no one else can or is speaking truth, then you're in the area of pathology and not spirituality.
I don't believe God limits the ways or the poeple that we can communicate with him, or he with us, and I don't believe we need an intermediary to connect to God. Ergo, anyone claiming that they are the only channel to God is on shaky ground.
Isn't the core Christian Teaching that the only way to God is through Jesus Christ?
 
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#29
Which is what Jim Jones and David Koresh were also claiming - that the way to the christian God was through them and them only.
Islam might be a way to God, as might Judaism, or Hinduism or Sikhism or Rastafarianism or whateverism. They could all be paths to God. I think there's trouble when one (hu)man or woman claims to be the only way to that deity.
As Jesus was/is God, revealing himself to humanity in human form [different from being human as we know it] (as Christians believe) then that's kind of a non argument, imo.
 
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Eigau

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#30
Personally - and this is only my view from watching several documentaries about both of them, I would say that when one man (or woman) seeks to take the role of the 'only' way to God, or to claim to speak for God and no one else can or is speaking truth, then you're in the area of pathology and not spirituality.
I don't believe God limits the ways or the poeple that we can communicate with him, or he with us, and I don't believe we need an intermediary to connect to God. Ergo, anyone claiming that they are the only channel to God is on shaky ground.
Viewing this from another angle, doesn't God have the right to choose a people for himself? And if he does then who are we to question him? Of it may just look the other way around to outsiders...

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm an outsider to Jews, Mainstream Christians, Hindus, Muslims etc :)

We use Micah 4: 5 to show that each nation will walk in the name of its god. Today isn't that true?
 
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#31
Was watching The Life of Brian yesterday... Perfect example of what happens with religions.
 
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#32
As Jesus was/is God, revealing himself to humanity in human form [different from being human as we know it] (as Christians believe) then that's kind of a non argument, imo.
Just seemed a bit ironic in context.

i understand the Christian paradigm/belief.

Personally if he did exist i see Jeshua as a wise mystic/teacher/healer - a human being like any of the rest of us. i don't see any other special significance other than that, no more than with any other genuinely spiritual person. Of a different calibre maybe, but i disagree personally with all the supernatural claims of the Bible/Exoteric Christianity. As i do with every religion - these people religions were based on were largely enlightened mystics imo - old/very advanced souls - Their words/messages/teachings are 'simply' misinterpreted & formulated into religious texts/dogma, within the context of other myth/stories & writings, & reformulated according to different times/culture - same as any mythology. (imo)
 
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#33
Their words/messages/teachings are 'simply' misinterpreted & formulated into religious texts/dogma, within the context of other myth/stories & writings, & reformulated according to different times/culture - same as any mythology. (imo)
i have No doubt that at some future time all the current World religions will be seen in the same way that we now see all the Older Mythologies. There's No special significance to any of them.

Maybe there will be new religions by then? But i can see an evolution at some stage beyond religions/fixed belief systems.
 
BrianHorlicks

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#34
I believe that everything is a missguided truth.
Everything is set to try,
Only you cab decide what is real and what isn't.

I still believe we are all connected,
Different sides of the same conciseness.

This is a test,
all of it,
How you get through it is up to you,
There is no right or wrong.
 
BrianHorlicks

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#35
By Stephen Adams,
Medical Correspondent
12:01AM GMT 02 Jan 2013
People who claim to be ‘spiritual’ but not religious are often struggling to cope mentally, according to a study.

They are more likely to suffer from a range of mental health problems than either the conventionally religious or those who are agnostic or atheists, found researchers at University College London.

They are more disposed towards anxiety disorders, phobias and neuroses, have eating disorders and drug problems.
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In addition, they are more likely than others to be taking medication for mental health problems.

Professor Michael King, from University College London, and his fellow researchers wrote in the British Journal of Psychiatry: "Our main finding is that people who had a spiritual understanding of life had worse mental health than those with an understanding that was neither religious nor spiritual."

The study was based on a survey of 7,403 randomly selected men and women in England who were questioned about their spiritual and religious beliefs, and mental state.

Of the participants, 35 per cent described themselves as "religious", meaning they attended a church, mosque, synagogue or temple. Five in six of this group were Christian.

Almost half (46 per cent) described themselves as neither religious nor spiritual, while the 19 per cent remainder said they had spiritual beliefs but did not adhere to a particular religion.

Members of this final group were 77 per cent more likely than the others to be dependent on drugs, 72 per cent more likely to suffer from a phobia, and 50 per cent more likely to have a generalised anxiety disorder.

They were also 40 per cent more likely to be receiving treatment with psychotropic drugs, and at a 37 per cent higher risk of neurotic disorder.

The researchers concluded: "We conclude that there is increasing evidence that people who profess spiritual beliefs in the absence of a religious framework are more vulnerable to mental disorder.

"The nature of this association needs greater examination in qualitative and in prospective quantitative research."
Another repost.