• Welcome! It’s great to see you. Our forum members are people, maybe like yourself, who experience mental health difficulties or who have had them at some point in their life.

    If you'd like to talk with people who know what it's like

So where is the scientific proof for schizophrenia?

A

Apotheosis

Guest
Media reports on the latest research into so-called ‘schizophrenia’ are just another attempt to shroud a psychiatric label in medical legitimacy.

After a century of research, there is a complete absence of objective proof that ‘schizophrenia’ exists as a physical brain abnormality. The first patients to be diagnosed with ‘schizophrenia’ were later found to have been suffering from a virus that caused inflammation of the brain resulting in bizarre behaviour.

In practice, there is abundant evidence that real physical illness, with real pathology, can seriously affect an individual’s mental state and behaviour.

Yet psychiatry completely ignores this weight of scientific evidence, preferring to assign all blame to illnesses and supposed ‘chemical imbalances’ in the brain that have never been proven to exist, and limits all practice to brutal treatments that have done nothing but permanently damage the brain and the individual.

Rather than returning the patient to good health, the drugs used to treat ‘schizophrenia’ cause damage to the body’s nervous system and result in permanent impairment and even death.

Completely ignorant of what they are dealing with, psychiatrists simply prefer the expedient approach of ‘throwing a hand grenade into a switchboard to fix it.’

Psychiatric researchers have dissected, labelled and analysed the brain while assailing the public with the latest theory of what is wrong with it. What is lacking, as with all psychiatric theory, is scientific proof.

Brian Daniels

National spokesperson, Citizens Commission on Human Rights (United Kingdom)

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/o...entific-proof-for-schizophrenia-14398015.html
 
M

maudikie

Guest
Maudikie

Net.Doctor reported the other day that a gene had now been found for schizophrenia. I know very little about genetics, but this is another step towards the answer. Dr.Anne Reveley, now retired, has worked for many years on the genetics of the condition. I don't know if ther is any book or other printed evidence of her work and that of others.
Also I have had it from the horses mouth that if someone wih schizophrenia does not want to work they will not have to. However I consider that if work is not an option then some regular hobby or occupation is part of the TREATMENT after a crisis has passed.This helps to keep them from a further breakdown and admission to h ospital. I am nt considering the finances in these remarks, and accept thatthereare times when they require a great deal of rest.
If there is no rehabilitation programme in your area then COMPLAIN.
 
R

ramboghettouk

Well-known member
Founding Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
16,655
Location
london
Didn't mean to comment but scientific proof, science isn't about proof it's about falsification and disproving the null hypothesis, you don't prove schitzoprenia exists you disprove the idea it doesn't exist

You don't prove the drugs work you disprove the idea they don't work, statistically less people end up binned on drugs than off drugs, theres always exceptions

What i don't like about this attack on the medical model, is it's orchestrated by psychotherapists to drum up business and my experience is psychotherapists aren't the saints they make out
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
What i don't like about this attack on the medical model, is it's orchestrated by psychotherapists to drum up business and my experience is psychotherapists aren't the saints they make out
I'm not a psychotherapist. The majority of people that I have heard, spoken to, & read up on, in relation to "this attack on the medical model" - aren't psychotherapists either.

:confused:
 
Condottiere

Condottiere

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
18
Absolute nonsense - sorry, but that is.
?!? Where is the argument in this sentence? How can you decide magically that what he said is nonsense, and that what you say is the Holy Truth? Postcount I guess?
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
?!? Where is the argument in this sentence? How can you decide magically that what he said is nonsense, and that what you say is the Holy Truth? Postcount I guess?
Prove it then - show me the proof - tell me where I go for a physical test for schizophrenia? I have been looking at all this stuff at depth for 20 years. It isn't for lack of intelligence, research or trying. Where is the scientific proof? - I certainly have never found it. :rolleyes:
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
Net.Doctor reported the other day that a gene had now been found for schizophrenia.
Maybe Net.Doctor did report such a thing? I don't know - there is no link to any site or article?

It has long been established that there is no single gene responsible for Schizophrenia. Where the research is headed; & has been going for considerable time; is in looking at highly complex gene interaction, mutation, & a large multiple amount of genes; having an influence in around a third of cases. It is now acknowledged that mental illness isn't caused solely by genetic factors - but a complex interplay with environmental, social, & other factors influencing outcomes.

Genes themselves are open to mutation & changing influence according to environmental & developmental changes & factors.

So the Science actually supports the notion that there is in fact no proved (anecdotal or otherwise) link or proof - to categorically state that mental illness is 'a genetic pre disposition - that leads to a chemical imbalance' - No proof of it! You can just as easily say that Alien mind control experiments are the primary cause of mental illness - & have as much evidence for that as you can a biological basis.

I'm not magically deciding that anything is nonsense. Given the facts - to state 'a gene had now been found for schizophrenia' - is absolute & utter Twaddle! :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
A

Apotheosis

Guest
?!? Where is the argument in this sentence?
This is serious to me Condottiere - On what basis are people having these labels placed on them? These umbrella terms - that explain nothing, that have no real scientific basis. & that then use myths to justify the forced drugging of a whole section of society. I think I have every right to say that's it's nonsense - given the destructive power of these myths; when someone posts, as fact, that 'a single Gene causes Schizophrenia; because they read it on a web site'!

http://www.mentalhealthforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3220
 
Last edited:
Condottiere

Condottiere

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
18
I personnally don't care if I suffer from schizophrenia or not, and I care even less if it should or not be a valid diagnosis. But I do think you can give better explanations than a haughty comment followed by a magnificient triple-post.

Nobody said that a single gene was the only sufficient cause of schizophrenia, merely that a gene has been identified that would be linked to schizophrenia. Whether it is true or not is quite far above my abilities, (and yours, just in case).

Labeling just for the labels is stupid. Using a single word to explain many symptoms and a certain general condition is not the same thing. Actually, it is quite normal: nobody would ever describe ever particularity of an animal instead of saying that it is a cow, a zebra or a tiger.

Besides, I doubt any professional would ever only look a the diagnosis, without reading a bit in the file about why this situation was diagnosed.
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
I personnally don't care if I suffer from schizophrenia or not, and I care even less if it should or not be a valid diagnosis. But I do think you can give better explanations than a haughty comment followed by a magnificient triple-post.
? - A strange thing for you to state.

I'm simply stating facts - if you get labelled with this condition - & are forced to take anti-psychotics (for life) - then get back to me after 20 years of living under such circumstances. What explanations do you want? Despite 'ramboghettouk's' frankly utterly bizarre ideas on what science is - I was always under the impression that the onus of proof is on the one making a claim.

Condottiere said:
Nobody said that a single gene was the only sufficient cause of schizophrenia,
Maudikie said:
that a gene had now been found for schizophrenia
Condottiere said:
Whether it is true or not is quite far above my abilities, (and yours, just in case).
It's quite obviously untrue - it may be far above your abilities - But it isn't, or hasn't been too much trouble for me to take a look at the current general levels of scientific understanding around this stuff. Anyone can in fact; if they so choose to.
 
Condottiere

Condottiere

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
18
But why do you disqualify, just like that, all the evidence that goes against your position? That is widely unscientific. Now, my Godwin point : Hitler did the same.



There has been studies that show that, if one of two identical twins has schizophrenia, there is a 50% chance that the other will also be diagnosed. Having in mind that only, how does your rock solid theory explains it without genes? Absolute nonsense? Anti-scienfitic gibberish? Unproven bullshit? A bunch of very (un?)lucky scientists International sionist plot against identical twins?
 
R

ramboghettouk

Well-known member
Founding Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
16,655
Location
london
i'm confused if 50% of identical twins get it it can't be genetic in say the way sickle cell anaemia is 100% get it

My bizarre idea of swhat science is i got from new scientist have you ever heard of Karl Popper, i think it's his ideas
 
R

ramboghettouk

Well-known member
Founding Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
16,655
Location
london
I'm not a psychotherapist. The majority of people that I have heard, spoken to, & read up on, in relation to "this attack on the medical model" - aren't psychotherapists eithe

The vast majority of loonys should i use the word user? who push such ideas are ex psychotherapy people who have the psychotherapists particular religion pushed on them and repeat it with messianic fervour
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
There has been studies that show that, if one of two identical twins has schizophrenia, there is a 50% chance that the other will also be diagnosed. Having in mind that only, how does your rock solid theory explains it without genes? Absolute nonsense? Anti-scienfitic gibberish? Unproven bullshit? A bunch of very (un?)lucky scientists International sionist plot against identical twins?
What is my 'rock solid theory'!!!??? I haven't stated any such theories! - I have simply pointed out that there is no scientific evidence to assume that the primary cause of Schizophrenia is genetic; & that it is quite ridiculous, & obviously apparent that it is untrue; that there is a single gene at primary cause for such a condition. A chemical brain imbalance/defect has never been proved; & it is a hypothesis. A hypothesis that has incidentally; many many holes. If you have evidence to the contrary - then please share it with us.

Nature Vs Nurture -

If it's genetic then both of them should have it - What about socio economic & environmental factors?; as well as family dynamics, & inter personal relationships? Not to mention certain stressors - & a multitude of other dynamics & influences; that could combine to affect prognosis.

The Nazi Doctors took the flame of Eugenics; from the UK & America - to further their ideas on how psychiatry should be performed - an influence that has had considerable effect on Modern Western psychiatric practises. The Nazis would have been proud that the biological unproven basis of mental illness - has been so broadly adopted in the modern World - despite there being no evidence for it whatsoever.

You never answered my request -

Apo said:
Prove it then - show me the proof - tell me where I go for a physical test for schizophrenia? I have been looking at all this stuff at depth for 20 years. It isn't for lack of intelligence, research or trying. Where is the scientific proof? - I certainly have never found it.
 
Last edited:
Top