Shamanic, Mysic, Visionary or Psychotic state?

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#1
i can't get away from the first experience that i had that lead to being sectioned for 4 months on a locked ward.

i think it was dealt with & responded to largely very inappropriately, & in a very damaging way.

A lot i have seen, studied, researched & read seems to corroborate certain aspects of what i originally experienced.

In ways i think that first episode is best understood, as it is with many others more in terms of psychological / spiritual crisis & more so in terms of shamanic initiation / psychic opening / visionary states - all the areas of more in depth / transpersonal understandings.

Not denying that there was / is stuff going on at physiological levels.

The subsequent 6 major episodes didn't seem to have the same significance. i have made a lot of progress, i do still feel that there is a way of more fully healing from & resolving things. i very much do agree in essence with Carl Jung, John Weir Perry, Loren Mosher, Michael Cornwall & many others who have spoken of the potential of a profound healing & transformation through these states, if approached within a more healing setting.

"Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don't have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing's Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry's Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-'Weller than well'- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

- Michael Cornwall.

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The Life conclusion, in the words of who was arguable the greatest psychiatrist & psychologist this World has seen -

“I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses - quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses - which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

- Carl Jung

Why is there such violent opposition, treatment & hatred to / for people experiencing such states, & why is there such violent & hateful opposition to far kinder, more humane & comprehensive understandings & approaches for people experiencing such states? What is it that people are really so afraid of?
 
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#2
Individuals are the experts on their own experiences - what real right or authority does anyone else, the system, biomedical psychiatry or anything else have to define other people & their experiences? Especially given how irrational, insane, & unhealthy a lot of this society / system is in reality.
 
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#3
Yep I agree, it seems to me that we are just hung out to dry on meds with no understanding of the underlying issues, which will go unresolved until those issues flare up again, because they are unresolved, and then they will up the dose.
 
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#4
"Are the mystics and sages insane? Because they all tell variations on the same story, don't they? The story of awakening one morning and discovering you are one with the All, in a timeless and eternal and infinite fashion. Yes, maybe they are crazy, these divine fools. Maybe they are mumbling idiots in the face of the Abyss. Maybe they need a nice, understanding therapist. Yes, I'm sure that would help. But then, I wonder. Maybe the evolutionary sequence really is from matter to body to mind to soul to spirit, each transcending and including, each with a greater depth and greater consciousness and wider embrace. And in the highest reaches of evolution, maybe, just maybe, an individual's consciousness does indeed touch infinity — a total embrace of the entire Kosmos — a Kosmic consciousness that is Spirit awakened to its own true nature. It's at least plausible. And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story, which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?"

Ken Wilber, in A Brief History of Everything (1996)
 
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#6
Psychosis & The Mystical 101 (Final) - YouTube

Uploaded on 14 Feb 2012

This 18 minute advocacy film for human and spiritual ethics about mental health and well-being explores and explains the deeper relationships between psychotic and mystic experiences in human life associated with the collective psyche/subconscious mind (and being) of us all.

 
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#7
We Need a More Humane Word for Mental Illness - YouTube


Published on 2 Dec 2015

A Human Rights declaration by modern mystic, Spencer Perdriau, justly stating the need to find a new humane word for mental illness, and the every-day struggles of life that a person faces with such, such as the many prejudices and stigmas from society and others that greatly limit the potential and productiveness of those struck by this.
 
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#8
Mysticism, Mental Illness & Complex Trauma -

Mysticism, Mental Illness & Complex Trauma - YouTube


Published on 13 Aug 2015

For Beyond 50's "Spirituality" talks, listen to an interview with Mark Lesniewski. An Oregon resident, he has a background in seminary studies, Spiritual Direction training, Clinical Pastoral Education, and a Master's degree in Contemplative Psychotherapy. According to Lesniewski, some people who were close to Jesus thought he was crazy. Same with Francis of Assisi. And what do you make of a prince (now know as the Buddha) who leaves his palace and family and, early on, lives a life of extreme asceticism in a forest? All three master mystics pointed us to more sane ways of living together. How would we handle them today? Last year "USA Today" published a series of articles called, "The Cost of Not Caring." One particular article was subtitled, "The Financial and Human Cost of Neglecting the Mentally Ill." What does this neglect say about our collective spiritual health, and what affect might it have if we changed our perspective about mystics, the mentally ill, and trauma victims, especially if we see what they, and we, all have in common? Tune in to Beyond 50: America's Variety Talk Radio Show on the natural, holistic, green and spiritual lifestyle. Visit Beyond 50 Radio Show and sign up for our Exclusive Updates.

*Produced and syndicated by Joy and Daniel Davis of Beyond 50 Productions.
 
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#12
I wish I knew the answer to the original question.

After a physical weekend I was feeling good yesterday - but as I lay in bed, tired from the activities and from staying up late watching golf - a 'delusion' I had years ago resurfaced. That I am a healer.
I lay there wondering if there was any truth in it.
But it was time to sleep - so I did that.
I still don't know if what I felt had any validity or was just some kind of madness.
 
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#13
I wish I knew the answer to the original question.

After a physical weekend I was feeling good yesterday - but as I lay in bed, tired from the activities and from staying up late watching golf - a 'delusion' I had years ago resurfaced. That I am a healer.
I lay there wondering if there was any truth in it.
But it was time to sleep - so I did that.
I still don't know if what I felt had any validity or was just some kind of madness.
i can't discount that i have made a lot of progress. i also can't discount there is an illness / condition / continuing difficulties.

i have extensively formally trained as a healer, & read / researched such areas extensively. Primarily for my own healing, But i have & do work with others within an unpaid / informal capacity. i would like to more formally engage in all this area some more at some stage when circumstances / conditions allow, if that becomes more possible. There is also a man locally who is very highly trained in therapy & hypnotism, where i can get a basic therapy qualification to add to the qualifications that i already have.

i think the point to a wounded healer / Shaman etc - Isn't that it's someone that is simply sick / psychotic - it's someone who has cured themselves / largely resolved things. Despite the progress & trying to help the people in my life & that cross my path in what capacity that i can, i wouldn't currently feel completely authentic in offering a healing service, & i think that there are far too many damaged & not very well people within therapy / psychology / healing areas as it is, Not to say that there aren't any decent healers, as there very much are.
 
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#14
I have met only charlatans in the healing arts. Bad luck I guess.

When I view my unfortunate experience of the psychiatric system, my two year hospitalization, as predestined and necessary, I am able to accept it and let it go. But shortly I am seeing that my childhood led me into that suffering, and the yoga group rules led me into that suffering, and I am looking for someone to blame or a system to blame.

I am still trying to get people to read my little book because I want people to know what happened. They make public all kinds of suffering, people who are kidnapped, people who are made into slaves. Surely our kind of suffering can be told.

For myself, I think I do not have enough of a current life to keep me from dwelling on the initial contact with psychiatry that was so detrimental. I wake up in the morning thinking about it.
 
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I have met only charlatans in the healing arts. Bad luck I guess.
A lot are - some aren't. They also vary a lot in capability & expertise.

When I view my unfortunate experience of the psychiatric system, my two year hospitalization, as predestined and necessary, I am able to accept it and let it go. But shortly I am seeing that my childhood led me into that suffering, and the yoga group rules led me into that suffering, and I am looking for someone to blame or a system to blame.
The blame doesn't work though, even if people / the system are to blame.

I am still trying to get people to read my little book because I want people to know what happened. They make public all kinds of suffering, people who are kidnapped, people who are made into slaves. Surely our kind of suffering can be told.
But the majority condone, defend & justify it all, & let it all carry on. What difference does it ever make to this society / system?

For myself, I think I do not have enough of a current life to keep me from dwelling on the initial contact with psychiatry that was so detrimental. I wake up in the morning thinking about it.
Yup - so do i - it goes round & round in my head, it is totally imprinted into my psyche.
 
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#16
Shamanic Spiritual Emergencies: The Dialectic of Distress and Spirituality, with Dr. Ingo Lambrecht -

Shamanic Spiritual Emergencies: The Dialectic of Distress and Spirituality, with Dr. Ingo Lambrecht - YouTube


Published on 10 Apr 2017

Throughout shamanic history, extreme states have been configured in relation to states of distress and spirituality. It is however not clear to what extent these states are separated, the same or if integration is at all possible.

This presentation explores the different positions possible when faced with psychotic distress and spirituality. It draws on the presenter’s experiences during his shamanic training. It considers some indigenous and current models and interventions of spiritual emergencies.

Bio:
Dr. Ingo Lambrecht is a consultant clinical psychologist working at Manawanui, Māori Mental Health Service in Auckland, New Zealand. His special interests include children and adolescents, psychosis and personality issues, as well as trauma and mindfulness. He has also written on the cultural-clinical interface through clinical and psychoanalytic work in different cultural settings, and was privileged to undergo an intense shamanic training as a sangoma, a South African traditional healer. In addition to his recent book, Sangoma Trance States (AM Publishing, 2014), he has contributed articles and chapters on the relationships between culture, psychosis, and spirituality, presenting at national and international conferences on these themes.
 
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#17
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AthenaRose

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#18
Thank you so much for your posts, they are helpful indeed.
I always wanted to be shaman since I figured out what they were, but unexpectedly did my understandings culminate. I wish to find a guide to help me navigate my delusions or visions so that I may be of use to the loving spirits who wish to send their messages through me, and to block the negative spirits that follow as a result of energetic duality. I am blessed with beautiful visions but then soon after, haunted by dark ones- like a balance must ensue with the spectrum of energies that bombard me.
You seem to have your understandings down, like a veteran, thank you for your support.
 
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#19
Thank you so much for your posts, they are helpful indeed.
I always wanted to be shaman since I figured out what they were, but unexpectedly did my understandings culminate. I wish to find a guide to help me navigate my delusions or visions so that I may be of use to the loving spirits who wish to send their messages through me, and to block the negative spirits that follow as a result of energetic duality. I am blessed with beautiful visions but then soon after, haunted by dark ones- like a balance must ensue with the spectrum of energies that bombard me.
You seem to have your understandings down, like a veteran, thank you for your support.
Thank you Athena. i feel that one way to square things is to see it as differential & in terms of spiritual crisis. It has been like that for me as well, coming to terms with the duality of a lot of these experiences.

LESSON 5.1 Differential Diagnosis

Spiritual Emergencies: Understanding and Treatment of Psychospiritual Crises - Reality Sandwich

i have tried to raise an awareness & discussion on the spiritual in relation to mental health, i hope that you find more healing & resolution to your own difficulties. :hug5:
 
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#20
SCHIZOPHRENICS - AMONG THE MOST POWERFUL WITCHES
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"Some of the most suppressed witches today are society's schizophrenics. They are among the most powerful witches on the planet. Witches have always been perceived as "crazy and nutty" because they really are "crazy and nutty" in a way that is so incredibly benevolent, it is beyond words. For some witches this causes no dysfunction in their lives, but for others it does. The feminine energy is most capable of witchcraft, but the masculine energy is also capable. A witch's power comes from the ability to gather many different frequencies to assemble a diverse range of harmonics and channel them so precisely that they can tune the vibration on a desired intention. That is their strength. They can do this better than anyone else. The reason they can do it so well is due to the many channels of information they have at their exposure. This happens within, tuning the frequencies when required and it is effortless with experience.

But when a witch has trouble focusing the energy required to channel the gift in modern society, the mind branches off into multiple segments to allow the witch to continue expanding and exploring the gift, multiplying the resources to broadcast and increase transmission where needed. Some witches can have dozens of branches extending from their core self just so they can express themselves. Without the branching, some witches convert into stagnant and almost comatosed states, thus they cannot function. In society, this is one way in which schizophrenia develops. The schizophrenic is often given pharmaceuticals at a young age to control the symptoms and this inevitably suppresses the gift. But there they remain, dysfunctional in society yet so incredibly functional as a witch with abilities which can transform this world in ways we have not imagined. So if you interact with someone labeled with schizophrenia, give them special attention next time, express your love, regardless of who they are...you may awaken something you don't expect."

- Marcel B FB.