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schizophrenia or drug residual effects?

D

dioi

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Joined
Feb 8, 2010
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2
I was a heavy drug user for the first half of 2007 but stopped after that, only trying cannabis again once November 2007 to realise that it was really a bad idea.

I stopped because I was getting delusions about a system and me being in the middle of it and that I was the only one that could stop it, or that I was helpless and was trapped by it.

I take Olanzapine 10mg and have been around that dose sinse July 2007. Which keeps that side of things stable.

October/November 2009 I stopped taking the Olanzapine as I was speaking to a psychologist and I felt I wanted to try, allthough things started to snowball and I put it off as just thoughts.

Christmas time I started getting the visual hullucinations and thought patterns as if this was how I should exit the system. But I was hullucinating (blurry vision) about my family being bad people, and it made them look like horrible dark people.

I never really had a bad trip on the drugs untill the end of me taking them, so I couldn't say whether this was a bad trip, or if it is something like schizophrenia.

I am back on the medication as of the new year, but I would be interested if anyone has been through the same?

And if people think this is schizophrenia or if it is just supressed risidual drug effects?

Thanks

Oi :)
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
My own experience - I was 17 years in active addiction & took a lot of drugs; & a lot of hallucinogenics.

I'm coming up 9 years in T-Total recovery.

What appears to be the case is the extreme MH conditions such as 'Schizophrenia' appear to be quite mysterious as to actual cause. the likelihood is that there are multiple factors at play.

Scientifically there appears to be no evidence that street drugs cause Schizophrenia. The use of street drugs may increase susceptibility in certain individuals; & some drugs do appear to exasperate the condition of 'psychosis'.

In my own case I think that my drug use & MH conditions are separate issues; although there is some overlap.

A few observations - Leaving aside 'drug induced psychosis' - that is usually short lived - why is not everyone that is taking drugs experiencing schizophrenia & psychosis? By the far the vast majority of habitual drug users I have known have experienced nothing of the MH issues that I have. Statistics appear to remain the same - it's one in a hundred with Schizophrenia; irregardless of whether drug use is present or not.

There is also the question of self medicating - I took illicit drugs to try & feel better; & to deal with mental & emotional pain - & in the short term they were effective.

Thirdly - I've been most ill on the last 3 occasions of severe 'psychotic breakdown' - which have all been in the last 9 years of not taking drugs. If these things were directly caused by drugs - then you would think that things would have eased in that time?
 
R

rasselas

Guest
...

I was a heavy drug user [but] I stopped because I was getting delusions about a system and me being in the middle of it and that I was the only one that could stop it, or that I was helpless and was trapped by it.
This sounds like me when I became aware of the true nature of clinical psychiatry.

I know you didn't intend that meaning and I don't mean to make light of your experiences.

I take Olanzapine 10mg and have been around that dose sinse July 2007. Which keeps that side of things stable.

October/November 2009 I stopped taking the Olanzapine as I was speaking to a psychologist and I felt I wanted to try, allthough things started to snowball and I put it off as just thoughts.

Christmas time I started getting the visual hullucinations and thought patterns as if this was how I should exit the system. But I was hullucinating (blurry vision) about my family being bad people, and it made them look like horrible dark people.

I never really had a bad trip on the drugs untill the end of me taking them, so I couldn't say whether this was a bad trip, or if it is something like schizophrenia.

I am back on the medication as of the new year, but I would be interested if anyone has been through the same?

And if people think this is schizophrenia or if it is just supressed risidual drug effects?
The beauty of that question is that although I am not a certified clinical psychiatrist I nevertheless have an equal chance of guessing at an answer and getting it right.

Neuroleptics are often referred to erroneously as antipsychotics This will gradually change over the next few years as they are now pushing rapidly forwards with widescale prescription of these drugs for 'resistant' depression.

Neuroleptics reduce brain activity, particularly in the frontal lobes and the limbic system. To cut a short story even shorter, the frontal lobes generate an awareness of the here and now, and the limbic system generates our emotional response to it (amongst, of course, many thousands upon thousands of other mental and physical phenomena).

Neuroleptics reduce this activity by blocking dopamine receptors.

However - you ever heard of homeostasis? In relation to the brain this involves the brain having a kind of self-defence mechanism to ensure that that bulgy skull organ that's been evolving over hundreds of 1000s of years, maintains its fundamental structure in the face of an aggressive attack - for instance, from a foreign agent, like a neuroleptic.

What happens is new dopamine recpeptors are formed to reeplace the ones that have been blocked.

However, these don't perform as well as the natural ones that are blocked.

That's one reason why, over time, the neuroleptic has less and less of a amerliorating effect on psychosis.

The more the receptors are blocked, the more new ones form. The more new ones form, the greater the flow of information between the limbic system and the frontal lobes.

The more the activity in these ares and the more you are going to become aware and have an emotional reaction to unpleasant or unwanted 'psychotic phenomena'.

But there's more. If, after a while of taking these drugs, you suddenly stop them. You now have your natural dopamine receptors released and firing up again. However, you also have the new ones your brain added to try and compensate, to try and keep you fully, naturally human.

That's when you get the rebound psychosis!

In short, it sounds to me that you had a rebound psychosis brought about by damage to your brain by neuroleptics. I recommend resuming the drug at the previous dose and negotiating a very gradual tapering, of course, under close medical supervision.

On the other hand, pay me 140k per year and I'll tell you you had a fullblown psychotic reaction which means I must move you over to a differnt brand drug, at a different mg level. This will most likely have the exact same effect physically as the other one, but it will give you the illusion that I know what I am doing plus I get the added bonus of tapping afresh into the placebo effect - which will make you think I am very astute indeed. And I retain the possibility of highering the dose, even doubvling it on a whim if ive had a particularly bad day - and then we get into the interesting area of one drug becoming 2 drugs, then even 3 - but that's another story. See you next month at 10am. thank you. Bye!

:clap::clap::clap:
 
I

IntrospectionFtw!

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I was a cannabis user and was initially put on antipsychotics after i freaked out...ive tried to come off them twice and like you recently had a episode over christmas everytime i come off the medication my symptoms seem to come back worse so yes ive had a very similar experience to you...some people say its the rebound effect and that when ur brain adjusts to coming off the meds ur psychosis comes back with more intensity because its been suppressed/repressed by the drugs...but having a relapse doesnt necessarily mean ur a "schizophrenic" and i personally dont like to label things...as mark will tell you more articulately in a second.
already beat me to to it lol.
 
R

rasselas

Guest
but having a relapse doesnt necessarily mean ur a "schizophrenic" and i personally dont like to label things...as mark will tell you more articulately in a second.
already beat me to to it lol.
lol i admire the short and sweet! I tend to do a few laps round the block when the ice cream man stops...

:clap::clap::clap::LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
D

dioi

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Feb 8, 2010
Messages
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By T-Total, do you mean prescribed drugs as well?
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
By T-Total, do you mean prescribed drugs as well?
I mean that I have not taken anything to get 'off my head' or to change the way that I feel; by T-total.

The 'meds' are prescribed for a medical condition - I've tried my best to get off them - with 3 failed attempts. At the exclusion of any proper therapeutic help; I am stuck with them; you may be too.

I take 200mg Amisulpride & I smoke a lot of roll-ups; & enjoy tea & coffee. If I get a very bad day; as in feeling very ill with things & not sleeping - then I'll either take 3.5mg of Zopiclone or 2mg to 10mg of valium - this is rare however - maybe valium 5 times a year; & Zopiclone maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks. I don't see taking these drugs in this way as 'using' - I'm taking them to manage a severe mental health condition.

Although; god knows that some days a Bottle of scotch, a few lines of coke & a joint would be just the thing, but I doubt that I'd get it on prescription.
 
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A

Apotheosis

Guest
I stopped because I was getting delusions about a system and me being in the middle of it and that I was the only one that could stop it, or that I was helpless and was trapped by it.
None of us are ill - we're natural shamans; tricked by western psychiatry.


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R

rasselas

Guest
yh coke and whiskey thats the shit makes a third chemical cant remember its name.
HARM REDUCTION ALERT!

It's called cocaethylene. And it's very toxic and dangerous to make it with that mix... massively increases the risk of heart attacks... even in people with otherwise young and healthy hearts.
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
HARM REDUCTION ALERT!

It's called cocaethylene. And it's very toxic and dangerous to make it with that mix... massively increases the risk of heart attacks... even in people with otherwise young and healthy hearts.
Probably not as bad as injecting crack & heroin at the same time.

But playing it safe; best stick with the Baileys & B&H Silver.
 
I

IntrospectionFtw!

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Buried under a sand castle.
yh cocaethylene thats the one...yh im probably quite lucky i did that weekly for about a year and half lol but i was careful spaced the lines out enough and didnt go crazy on the alkie till the last line was gone.
 
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