Safest place to avoide hospitals or chemicals?

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lovepeace

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#1
Hi im about to leave the USA to avoid chemicals and alterations to my body. Im woundering if anyone can give me any info as to countrys that eather you have to consent for treatments or confinments, or somewhere that doesent treat you if you cant affored it. Any sugestions would be appreacated as i dont want to move to the wrong country by mistake.
 
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Fragile

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#2
Not really true, many third world countries don't have proper mental health legislation - if you're totally mad you'll just end up on the streets or locked up in a hellish prison. Some countries wont treat you even if you can afford it, because they don't have any mental hospitals! Mental health is a non-issue for much of the world. So yeah, mental health systems are easy to get away from. But..

I wouldn't leave your country for anywhere. Although, if you really have to, stick to the U.S / the West, because many of the alternatives are far worse!!
 
Major_Mayhem

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#3
Australia is pretty good I get mental health treatment free and majority is free except specialist they come with a price
 
bert tomato

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#4
ah most developed countries are fine. personally, i am thinking of moving to india
 
calypso

calypso

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#5
Hiya lovepeace and Welcome to the forum

I understand that Norway has a really advanced mental health system, as they do in their prisons too. But whether you could get all that as a US citizen, I have no idea. They are not in the EU either, so they are a very independent country. Their government has on staff a group of philosophers, believe it or not, who advise on policies they are asked about, to give an independent view. I find that amazing personally.

I wouldn't come here, for although the NHS is free and many aspects are centres of excellence, our MH services are not one of them !!
 
oneday

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#6
Not sure if I'll do your question justice, lovepeace, but just a few ideas.

Note: I may not be up to date here, and it's probably a small number of options compared to what the possibilities are out there in world (it's a bi-i-i-i-i-i-g place). Also, I'm not going into any detail - if you're going to be up to leaving your country (or going to some other part of your country - see below) to attain some alternative support, I think you're going to have to be able to do the research, so look up these few ideas online and do the follow-through....

I'd start by getting in touch with groups in the US like Mindfreedom and the Freedom Center to see what they can suggest. Don't know how much their ethos has changed over the years, but check out the Windhorse Project in Boulder, Colorado. Check out places based on the Soteria House model, there's one in Alska that I'm aware of as well as in Sweden, Finland, Germany, Switzerland, and Hungary. In the UK, you could check out therapeutic communities run by the Philadelphia Association and by the Arbours Association in London. The Lothlorian Community in Scotland is a place run with a Tibetan Buddhist ethos. I've heard of a place called the Runaway House in Berlin. I'd check out the book 'Alternatives Beyond Psychiatry' by Peter Lehmann and Peter Stastny - you might find leads here. Peter Lehmann might be worth contacting - he responded to an email of mine once when I contacted him on behalf of someone who wanted non-coercive support in Berlin. There's the 'Open Dialogue' approach in Finland/Scandinavia. There seems to be interesting stuff going on in Austraila, eg with the Richmond Fellowship. I agree with Fragile that 'developing' countries like India are going to be difficult places to get your head around if you're in a crisis and you're a foreigner - that may be the same with many of the other countries I've said about, but I'm saying a bit about what I know cos you asked.

For what it's worth, I think it's an absolute human tragedy and travesty that psychotropic drugs and incarceration are forced on people in distress in the way that they are rather than us being offered the kind of support and care that we want and need and would choose.

Anyway, best of luck with your journey, lovepeace.
 
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Fragile

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#7
ah most developed countries are fine. personally, i am thinking of moving to india
I'd be careful. India is not an easy country for mental health problems - the cities, particularly, are enough to drive some sane people slightly mad. Think massive populations, pollution, dust, hassle, and noise hitting you from every direction. Add some nasty tropical diseases on top and you can see why India + Schiz is not a good combo!!

There is a bit of an illusion with India (and the whole south asia region really). It's easy to bump into mentally ill westerners in that part of the world; they're everywhere. It is actually very sad, because some of them end up in all sorts of trouble.

There are few places I'd least rather be ill.

I'd just go for a short break with a return ticket :)
 
calypso

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#8
Hiya Lovepeace, would you like to tell us a little more about how you are doing and whatyou think of some of these answers? xx
 
bert tomato

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#9
I was hoping to move to Mumbai. The combo of climate and low living costs makes the disadvantages a moot point for me.

just my 2 cents.
 
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Fragile

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You might like it, but you might find it very difficult - people with mental health problems often do, and people without!

Mumbai gets a good dose of the monsoon remember - can't escape that if you live there. That's just rain, mud and malaria for a good three months. It might be cheap, but its the sort of place you get young kids tugging at your clothes begging for money every time you go to the shop (if it's anything like Calcutta) - especially if you're white. There is a lot of very upsetting stuff going on in that part of the world that we're not exposed to. I'm always cautious when other people with mental health problems talk about moving or even going there for a long time. It is a relatively common thing that people do now. As long as people are careful.

There have been some good articles written on this kind of thing, and how foreigners with mental health problems do / or don't adjust, it's very interesting and raises many good points I'll try and find it.

These things can be done, but even for a break, I think planning things more carefully is needed.
 
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Rose19602

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Lovepeace, I've just read through these posts and sorry, but it all sounds very extreme.
I no very little about the mental health system in the US, but moving away from what is a very large country which must have a range of diverse MH services seems like a very big move to contemplate.
Particularly as you are clearly unsure of the alternatives.
Maybe there is a legal service available to MH patients in the US which would be of more use to you?
It always strikes me as a highly legislative country. You must have some rights or legislation to protect you.

Could you compare the legal costs to the costs (and risks) implicated by becoming an ex-pat and think of a way round this?
Perhaps I could understand better if you could specify what exactly you are trying to escape from and whether or not it is truly enforced.... Would you be able to do that do you think?

Whatever your decision, I truly hope that you can resolve this situation. You clearly don't feel safe and well treated or respected, and no one deserves to feel that way.
take care
x
 
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ranger

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#12
Lovepeace. Yes moving away sounds an attractive idea new start and all that. But problem is you take you with you. ie All your problems aren't going to disappear because you are half way around the world. They may get worse ie the familiar can be easier.

I made this mistake on two occasions and although I did see quite a bit of the world I was generally unwell when I did it and even though now I don't regret it, because I saw some amazing places, if I had my time again I would certainly not have done it now, because although I felt privileged to see some fascinating things, I didn't really appreciate it at the time because I wasn't in the best of health.

Think very carefully about this. It is a massive decision. I was ill in South East Asia without meds and there was zero treatment around. I got ill in Australia too, but fortunately their mental health services were second to none.

Just want you to think carefully before doing this.
 
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ranger

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#14
I would definitely agree with all that is in that article Fragile.

When I was travelling through south east Asia, I did have to go to hospital in Indonesia not actually for mental health problems but because I had an insect bite on my leg which became dangerously swollen.

Fortunately I was not alone, I was on an organised tour and the tour leader took me to hospital and spoke in the native language, so I could eventually be seen. The corridors of the hospital were open to the elements and as it was the monsoon season everything was very damp indeed. When I was seen the equipment they used was kept in beer bottles, so not exactly great. If I had been on my own I don't know what I would have done.

When I was in Australia, I did go with two friends but was very unwell when I went and this became worse, ie We generally went out drinking in the evenings, I was more and more nervous and was forgetting to take medication and they were some of the most scarey times, however their mental health services are excellent.

Lovepeace if you are really determined to go. First of all I would try a very brief visit if you can afford it, before just packing up and going And also do not go at all if you are struggling a lot.

I am speaking from experience on this one.

Ranger:)
 
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Fragile

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#15
Yes local hospitals can be dire!

I think the article raises a very good point over control. So much of it is about acceptance of a uncertainty and certain lack of control. If certain things happen, and you're in a particular part of the country - sometimes you really can be in trouble. No point worrying about it though; all you can do sometimes is have a beer, a cigarette, and try to go with the flow. That is how I got the most out of South Asia in the end - and it took a few failed attempts. Easier said than done, and it can take a while to settle in before getting into the swing of things.

I guess that's the attitude? Acceptance of a reduced level of control over your surroundings and your life.

What I found the most difficult thing when I first 'hit' Asia was the level of hassle you get in parts. People will not leave you alone at times; this is especially the case when you first arrive. The street touts always know who is straight off the plane and an easy target - it's their job to know, and they're often very good at it! This can be stressful and even intimidating for anyone, for the mentally ill traveller, it can be especially difficult.

It is certainly worth going - but if you're in the right place, going for the right reasons, and have given everything careful consideration. That's what I think. I also think it is best to not go alone the first time you go. Go with a good friend.

I also think the article raises some excellent points (particularly about Spirituality and ''getting it together'') that I can't articulate right now, although I can certainly relate to.

I could have done with reading it myself at one stage.
 
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ranger

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#16
Yes I could have done with reading as well, however at that stage of my life I don't think I would have taken much notice of it

Agree better to go with people you know if possible.

Also agree with people hassling you a lot.

Taxi drivers and market traders were generally the worst, also beach sellers selling a whole load of tat.

Being a young single man when I went, I was regularly offered prostitutes and when I declined they suggested boys. Crikey!!!! Got offered drugs regularly too. Even though I was pretty unwell at the time, I knew these things weren't right, but blimey hassle city wherever I went.

Some stunning natural as well as man made scenes though. Looking back on it now, I dismiss how unwell I was at the time and just remember all the amazing things I saw. I don't think I would want to do it now though. I barely travel beyond the town I live in now, but that suits me.

Different cultures and ways of life though certainly broadens your horizons though and I am glad I experienced that though.

Acceptance of your limitations etc that came for me many years after these trips. Spiritually yes all this helps form ways of dealing with the everyday a little easier I agree.

Ranger:)
 
McMurphy's Ghost

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#18
I understand that Norway has a really advanced mental health system, as they do in their prisons too.
A solution not many saw coming I suspect. Go to Norway, commit a crime, plead guilty and mental health service nirvana is yours.

calypso; said:
But whether you could get all that as a US citizen, I have no idea.
I believe Norway will send americans to prison along with any people from any country. Thats how they roll, so no need to worry about that aspect.
 
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