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Psychosis or Spiritual Awakening: Phil Borges at TEDxUMKC

cpuusage

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Psychosis or Spiritual Awakening: Phil Borges at TEDxUMKC - YouTube


Published on 23 Feb 2014

Phil Borges, filmmaker and photographer, has been documenting indigenous and tribal cultures for over 25 years. His work is exhibited in museums and galleries worldwide and his award winning books have been published in four languages. Phil's recent project, Inner Worlds, explores cultural differences with respect to consciousness and mental illness.
 
McMurphy's Ghost

McMurphy's Ghost

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Anyone have any thoughts on all this?

Re-frames things quite well i thought.

At 21:00 he mentions Eleanor Longden....just watch Eleanor imo....

 

cpuusage

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At 21:00 he mentions Eleanor Longden....just watch Eleanor imo....

It is inspirational. i think that there are a number of quite different things happening under what gets as labelled schizophrenia/psychosis.

Yes, a lot of it does appear to be trauma/abuse based - leading to psychogenic voice hearing. But it doesn't all appear to be that, far from it in fact.
 
McMurphy's Ghost

McMurphy's Ghost

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............

So what is it to be......you want understanding and community supports.....or you want to be set up as a shaman, to be consulted on life matters such as the way to happiness and paying off the mortgage early....which...??
 

cpuusage

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So what is it to be......you want understanding and community supports.....or you want to be set up as a shaman, to be consulted on life matters such as the way to happiness and paying off the mortgage early....which...??

Since when is it all going to be how i want it all to be?

If you listened to the original talk, what he was saying separates the experiences of the healer/shaman, is in them having comprehensive support, understanding & respect. Regardless of what the experiences/condition is, everyone deserves that anyway. If you look into the subject of Shamanism & madness in indigenous/tribal cultures, you'll also see differences within certain types of experiences, all altered/non-ordinary states are not all considered to be shamanistic. The whole point that he made that what would be considered to be genuine shamanic opening/crisis is largely culture specific - If you experience that in Western Culture you'll be shunned, treated as mad, & likely end up in very dire social circumstances, as people do.

Ideally, what is it to be? As i have shared - comprehensive understandings & approaches on an individualised basis using an integrated/holistic model (which isn't going to happen). i won't expand on that as i have done already extensively. It's not either/or in my opinion, stuff can go wrong with the brain, there can be various weightings, or a predominant area across physiological, psychological, social & spiritual areas. i don't think it's dealing with simple either/or areas. Some people i think are just mentally ill/mad, others it is maybe more a case of abuse/trauma, with some it's all more psychological/emotional, others i think it may be far more a case of spiritual crisis/emergence. A lot also depends on response, & the approaches used.

Some recover/heal/integrate things well, & others don't (for many possible reasons). i think that each person is an individual, with their own story, circumstances & experiences, i'm wary of anything, from any position becoming prescriptive, & with anyone saying that they are right about it all, & everyone else is wrong. i do see varying degrees of psychopathology/illness, & of course it can be debated as to in what ways & best ways of approaching it all are. That doesn't then mean some straw man accusation is valid that i support simplistic drug propaganda/biomedical slogans, as i don't.

Very largely, in all of it, i'd primarily agree with Carl Jung (& always have done), i don't think that anyone else has done more for psychology/psychiatry - he's a couple of hundred years ahead of his time even today, imo.

On a lot of consideration & balance, i do see a place/role for psychiatry & mental health services, & a valid role also for psychopharmacology. Some people i think are very much helped with medications. Ideally, i'd love to see more comprehensive approaches to all these areas, & a far more understanding & caring society/World - But the World/society is the way it all is, as is. It's a case of acceptance & each individual doing what they feel they need to personally do, & their best within it all.
 

cpuusage

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So what is it to be......you want understanding and community supports.....or you want to be set up as a shaman, to be consulted on life matters such as the way to happiness and paying off the mortgage early....which...??

Just to expand on this. i don't see any of it as either/or.

i don't identify myself as a shaman, never have done, nor in having had shamanic experiences. i am very interested in a lot of different areas, & i do practise spirituality, that i would describe as being entirely non-religious (including shamanism).

i think it can sometimes help people to re-frame things, & if something works for them, & helps with things, then all well & good, & that is often very different things for different people.

i could write a book on what i feel has gone on in my own case, & i wouldn't identify primarily with any one specific model/explanation - i can see aspects/areas across a range of factors.

My main focus & practise, & always in a way has been, is on a type of Western Zen teaching. Beyond certain practises, i've looked at & am willing to look into just about anything, on any areas.
 
zoomz

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I wonder when those who take a spiritual route rather than illness/psychosis route have to say when it comes to the matter of going after benefits when they need GP/psychiatric letters.

Is it not two faced/using people?

I once thought the voices I hear came from a spirit world and sought out exorcism multiple times. I found out that sadly the services don't do exorcisms.
 
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cpuusage

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I wonder when those who take a spiritual route rather than illness/psychosis route have to say when it comes to the matter of going after benefits when they need GP/psychiatric letters.

Is it not two faced/using people?

I once thought the voices I hear came from a spirit world and sought out exorcism multiple times. I found out that sadly the services don't do exorcisms.

i wouldn't see anything wrong in people considering that they have a mental heath condition, but who also acknowledge & have interests in spirituality & are interested in exploring/practising spirituality. Mindfulness is very popular these days, & is used a lot by the NHS. The NHS also employs alternative/spiritual healers, in some areas/cases. i don't see that having a mental health condition/experiences excludes people from anything else?

i don't see a contradiction in trying/exploring anything, if it's going to be of potential help for people. A lot of the alternative/complimentary areas acknowledge mind/body/soul, & role of mainstream medical services as well as more holistic approaches.

Have you looked into areas of spirit release? Seems a bit more progressive/humane/advanced/effective than exorcism.
 

cpuusage

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I wonder when those who take a spiritual route rather than illness/psychosis route have to say when it comes to the matter of going after benefits when they need GP/psychiatric letters.

Why do you assume that everyone that takes a spiritual route are claiming benefits, or indeed had/have anything to do with the MH system? i could list a lot of cases of people who whom neither is true.
 
zoomz

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i wouldn't see anything wrong in people considering that they have a mental heath condition, but who also acknowledge & have interests in spirituality & are interested in exploring/practising spirituality. Mindfulness is very popular these days, & is used a lot by the NHS. The NHS also employs alternative/spiritual healers, in some areas/cases. i don't see that having a mental health condition/experiences excludes people from anything else?

i don't see a contradiction in trying/exploring anything, if it's going to be of potential help for people. A lot of the alternative/complimentary areas acknowledge mind/body/soul, & role of mainstream medical services as well as more holistic approaches.

Have you looked into areas of spirit release? Seems a bit more progressive/humane/advanced/effective than exorcism.


Hi cpuusage

I was thinking about compartmentalisation and how it relates to MH on conscious and subconscious levels..

It is something that I think I do when dealing with symptoms. if we compartmentalise these compartments in the mind could be contradictory especially in the sub levels.

I think it can help and hinder, especially when trying to empart experiences to ATOS medics*allthogh they have never called me in...
 

cpuusage

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Hi cpuusage

I was thinking about compartmentalisation and how it relates to MH on conscious and subconscious levels..

It is something that I think I do when dealing with symptoms. if we compartmentalise these compartments in the mind could be contradictory especially in the sub levels.

I think it can help and hinder, especially when trying to empart experiences to ATOS medics*allthogh they have never called me in...

i kind of see what your saying. As i said above, i think that there is probably a lot of quite different things going on within what comes under mental health, not just obviously in the whole area, but also what comes under each diagnostic category - psychosis/schizophrenia i think probably covers a lot of stuff.

If someone is claiming benefits, & not everyone is, then it's a matter for themselves as to what they present to the DWP. If someone is genuinely not in a fit state to work, & they are in need of financial support, then under the relevant welfare systems, they have a right to protection & help from the Government, that is in fact one of the main roles of Government, to offer support, protection & help to it's citizens that are in need of it all. If 'you' are not well, then i'd think it obvious that you would frame/write the form from a medical/sickness perspective. i don't personally see any contradiction? What is the issue?
 

cpuusage

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Worth reposting this again -

Psychosis & The Mystical 101 (Final) - YouTube


Uploaded on 14 Feb 2012

This 18 minute advocacy film for human and spiritual ethics about mental health and well-being explores and explains the deeper relationships between psychotic and mystic experiences in human life associated with the collective psyche/subconscious mind (and being) of us all.
 
shaky

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The talk was really good.
he said, The young man in it, is homeless - which is shockingly bad.

It amazes me that western societies are so limited that they cannot find someway of embracing these people who are having spiritual crises.
I suppose the skills to deal with them and bring them through to their new brth have been lost.
Someone should find out how the experienced shamans deal with the initiates.
 
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