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Psycho-Spiritual-Socio-Somatic

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Psycho-Spiritual-Socio-Somatic.

Psychological - of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person.

Spiritual - relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.

Social - [attributive] relating to society or its organization.

Somatic - relating to the body, especially as distinct from the mind.

That is what M.Scott Peck Classes Schizophrenia as in his book 'Further along the Road Less Travelled' (worth a read). & I agree with him. Reading his book confirms my own working conclusions.
 
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findingmyownway

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Would you add the word 'physical' that definition as well? Somatic seems to be deliberately used to avoid talking about the brain, as separate from the rest of the body. I don't think we can ignore it. What are your thoughts?
 
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Would you add the word 'physical' that definition as well? Somatic seems to be deliberately used to avoid talking about the brain. I don't think we can ignore it. What are your thoughts?
I think it's all interrelated (multifaceted causes), & can't be separated out - it's somatic & psychosomatic. We don't know exactly what is going on at biologic levels. However - I do feel that there is maybe something in the original conception/genetic mutation in all this, but also factored into everything else, including epigenetic's & brain plasticity (also prenatal/perinatal experiences/environment, early brain development & all the rest). I would type out what Peck writes - But really can't be bothered. (it's on page 53 if you ever read the book).

[Somatic to me includes the physical brain which is part of the physical body & not separate from it (going with a mind/brain distinction)]
 
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We don't know exactly what is going on at biologic levels. However - I do feel that there is maybe something in the original conception/genetic mutation in all this, but also factored into everything else, including epigenetic's & brain plasticity (also prenatal/perinatal experiences/environment, early brain development & all the rest). I would type out what Peck writes - But really can't be bothered. (it's on page 53 if you ever read the book).
I haven't read any of his stuff. I've got such a short attention span I'd probably struggle.

I sometimes see the brain as a sort of plastic substrate that we have to work with, in whatever way we choose. Kind of a bidirectional thing - we can do things with our minds to improve our brain, and we can do things with our brains to improve our minds, sort of thing. How they all bring together to improve ourselves I don't know.

Then I wonder if there are a load of personal levels going on top of that - maybe spiritual would be the word. Certainly higher order levels, like belief and identity, that might be crucial to living well and surviving mental illness.
 

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I sometimes see the brain as a sort of plastic substrate that we have to work with, in whatever way we choose. Kind of a bidirectional thing - we can do things with our minds to improve our brain, and we can do things with our brains to improve our minds, sort of thing.

Then I wonder if there are a load of personal levels going on top of that - maybe spiritual would be the word. Certainly higher order levels, like belief and identity, that might be crucial to living well and surviving mental illness.
Yea, almost like some kind of an interface/bio-feedback loop. 'We' don't really know with it all, but consciousness obviously factors in very heavily with it all. Sadly Western Materialist science has concluded that conciousness doesn't exist (it's an illusion of the brain). So at an orthodox/mainstream level, we're not really going to get very far - in fact we're still stuck in the 18th Century.
 
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findingmyownway

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Yea, almost like some kind of an interface/bio-feedback loop.
Yes that's how I largely see things. It's interesting, because it's the sort of theory that would allow people to approach the same problem from a few different angles, and bio-feedback being well, the outcome could be the same. Learning and plasticity just demonstrate the structural outcomes of how we use conciousness - I don't know how people can deny this sort of thing. Positive structural changes are believed by some to occur after some psychiatric drugs ..it's not all that different in some ways really. I like seeing the brain and mind like this because I think it encourages me to be more active about it all - the thinking decisions we are making every day are wiring parts of our brain, determining our flexibility in the sorts of future decisions we might make etc, and so on - it's all cumulative. Thinking is a big deal when I think about it!
 
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I see a personal level to my own issues as well. A feeling of being at peace with who I am, comfort with my place - life and death - on this earth, and as honest approach to death as I can have. This doesn't mean thinking about it for me, but just accepting it - instead of creating little clauses in my head for why it definitely not happen any time soon. It could happen tonight. I also have to able to honestly identify with myself in other ways (I guess that starts to encompass beliefs about what happens when I'm dead, and the universe etc.). On a day to day level, a lot of it is about accepting who I am on a higher order level (everything about myself, what I think, how I feel about so many personal things) instead of struggling to fit into the world around me. I do think life is too short to struggle in those sorts of ways. What I've said sounds intense, but for me being honest in these ways starts to reduce the intensity of parts of my life and thinking, accepting and honesty help me think more clearly and experience a better state of mind.

I'd be interested to see how other people see a personal or spiritual element to mental health..
 
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I'm also very interested in physical stuff though. Including drugs. For me it's just a resource that is there. Drugs aren't necessarily good for mental health, but they're not necessarily bad - it depends on the person and how they're applied. It depends on so many things. I guess most peoples experiences with psychiatric drugs probably are bad though.

But people love drugs. Tea, coffee, cigs, booze, recreational drugs. We love them. I don't really draw a dividing line between all that and psychiatric drugs as such. It's all just part of it for me, I'm fascinated by drugs and neuroscience. I think using drugs in the right way can even play a healthy role in the bio-feedback loop but like I said it doesn't have to.
 

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But people love drugs. Tea, coffee, cigs, booze, recreational drugs. We love them. I don't really draw a dividing line between all that and psychiatric drugs as such. It's all just part of it for me, I'm fascinated by drugs and neuroscience. I think using drugs in the right way can even play a healthy role in the bio-feedback loop but like I said it doesn't have to.
Drugs are drugs; I see no real distinctions per se in substances used at alter our perceptions. Where I do make a distinction is in why people take them, & it's a very fine line. These areas also go into very much expanded subjects; especially behavioural, cognitive, feelings & emotions. There is something in being as clean living as possible. Ideally I'd like to be living on clean air, water & wholesome unprocessed food, & nothing else, & 'we' largely lived like that as a species for hundreds of thousands of years. Something quite frightening on how chemically polluted everything is now, since Industry; but most people don't really appear very bothered, on the contrary; the more unnatural everything is the more people seem to enjoy it all.
 

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Would you add the word 'physical' that definition as well? Somatic seems to be deliberately used to avoid talking about the brain, as separate from the rest of the body. I don't think we can ignore it. What are your thoughts?
Leaving aside the rights & wrongs of different treatment approaches. & leaving aside that we don't fully know aetiology/primary cause. In a percentage of people then maybe there is some kind of genetic, brain structural/chemical, neurological (& other) types of pathology (wholly or in part to blame). [as well as potentially all the other theorised causes]. There is maybe some types of physiological factors that predispose some people more to psychosis/mental illness. I wouldn't fully rule that out. But I don't think that it can be taken in isolation to everything else. To my understanding everything exists on a spectrum of multiple factors that effect path & prognosis.
 

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Leaving aside the rights & wrongs of different treatment approaches. & leaving aside that we don't fully know aetiology/primary cause. In a percentage of people then maybe there is some kind of genetic, brain structural/chemical, neurological (& other) types of pathology (wholly or in part to blame). [as well as potentially all the other theorised causes]. There is maybe some types of physiological factors that predispose some people more to psychosis/mental illness. I wouldn't fully rule that out. But I don't think that it can be taken in isolation to everything else. To my understanding everything exists on a spectrum of multiple factors that effect path & prognosis.
All that said, & not leaving aside the importance or influence of the social/somatic - how much can everything be seen (especially in some experiences/conditions) as far more to do with an existential psychological/spiritual Crisis? & how much primary is the real healing, resolution & solution to things in a dropping of our existential fear, & truly a leap of faith into life & the unknown. It's nearly all a mystery anyway; however much we cling onto certain things - really next to nothing is actually known.
 
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I was just reading this which had me pondering this thread again. It's just Paris Williams outlining his philosophy as Mind/Body/Spirit Holism and outlining it briefly. My understanding in the spiritual side lags way behind the others.

When I was thinking about it (existential crisis, connectedness - but widening it out to our entire environment) I was wedging it into the psycho and socio categories if truth be told, and kind of taking that to be spirituality, which from the stuff in the other threads appears to be missing a huge chunk of it all out. It's all very interesting stuff.

I'd probably rate my level of understanding of these different areas as Socio>Psycho>>Somatic>Spiritual, it's very interesting learning from others who also see the relevance and interplay of all these things. I have a tendency to consider only the first three and integrate the aspects of the spiritual I come across and understand/internalise into them. I'm interested to discover if, as I learn more, this will significantly change.

Are conventional existential crisis and interconnectedness philosophies even core components of the spiritual section?
 

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Are conventional existential crisis and interconnectedness philosophies even core components of the spiritual section?
I was chatting with someone the other day that said they only use the word spiritual very rarely & only for other people, & that he'd like to see the word abolished. He said he saw everything as god, & god in everything, that there was no separation in anything - the oneness of all life/reality.

How much is it all perspectives again? & how much are we all very limited with language?

Are we spiritual beings having a human experience, & is the spirit World/realities more real than this one? Are some of the Eastern philosophies correct that largely 'this' reality (the material Universe/the World of matter/form/incarnation) an Illusion? How much can everything been seen from a spiritual frame of reference/perspective?

I see things in different terms different moments.
 
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I think the language thing comes into it a lot, that and the desire to over-simplify complex things. Whenever "we" try and nominate a word for a complex phenomena it makes sense we'll all understand the words very differently. I was watching the video debate firemonkee posted about the soul and it's hard enough just getting a working definition of what it is to debate if it exists and where it comes from.

Or maybe we all over-complicate simple things. Sometimes my brain just hurts itself with stuff. I think on a lot of levels it's all very simple, then the marketing machines come up with complex tripe and we have to find complex ways of breaking it down and explaining intuitive ideas that have been educated out of us. Who knows, I guess you can make a lot of it as simple or as complex as you like.

I mean seeing people as whole beings whose feelings and experiences and behaviours are effected by the range of things in the title of this thread, that also inter-relate and effect each other should really be obvious and intuitive. That anybody doesn't see it that way is surely a result of having it indoctrinated out of them.

That "mentally ill" people are seen and approached in a separate paradigm to "well" others is surely indicative of a society more insane than any individual has ever been.
 
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