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possible misdiagnosis of schizoaffective disorder

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forumuser23

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
14
i was recently diagnosed with the most recent psychiatrist i saw with schizoaffective disorder, however, i do not agree on the diagnosis, not just from her observation but altogether as a whole.

as i am new to the forum, i was gonna post in the "introduce yourself" section first of why i am here, etc, but i guess i'll just explain it all here.

i mainly came to this forum because i couldn't get much information and good responses from elsewhere, particularly on schizoaffective disorder, as well as on what exactly constitutes to psychosis, mania / hypomania, or other pathologies or problems of matter.

my actual diagnosis from the few past psychologists i saw concluded the diagnosis of primarily being major depression and secondary diagnosis of schizotypal personality disorder. i do relate to both, although i would consider myself a very unique blend of many different problems, from digestion related to deeply emotional disturbances / negative emotions such as anger. i initially seeked mental health services at the age of 18, right after high school, i am age 25 now. i also didn't get a diagnosis of schizotypal personality disorder and major depression till a few years after 18, around 21-22 i think, before that, it was just labelled as "anxiety" and "depression", which i always knew was more than just that.

my biggest issue and concern is what sort of help i could get, other than psychiatric medication as i have gone that route. since i struggle with god knows what everyday, and i can't really get a objective response from anyone in particular of what exactly it could be, since it seems to entail a lot of things.

even if i were to try a certain medicine, regardless of whether it would be in the psychiatric class or not, i really need to be sure i am taking the right type of medicine and that there is more good than harm. i already have backup potential herbal / more natural supplements to try.

one of the past psychiatrists i saw wrongly prescribed an antipsychotic named latuda which sent me to the hospital from it's so called "side effects", really, it shouldn't even be called "side effects", a simple explanation is that the drug did what it shouldn't to my body and brain and fucked me up, i explained this all in the psych forums and elsewhere, how it turned me into a zombie, brain damaged me, made my depression a million times worse, barely made me walk around, barely able to eat for the 3 days i took, on the third night, i couldn't take it anymore and as i was sitting in my bed restless and severely agitated trying to just go to sleep, i eventually got to a point of convulsing with my brain jerking on and off and i then had crying spells and screaming from what the drug did to me.

i was taken to the hospital that night, at the hospital, they told me that all i could do is just let the drug run it's course and leave my system, but they did give me ativan and an anti nausea pill which helped a bit, i was trying really hard to wait it out and later left home, for the next days i was in a very brain damaged / down / zombied state, but i eventually i got back to my regular state.

so, my problem now is that i really suffer a lot, severe depression and all sorts of things of unknown, my body ramps out in certain periods of the day and timeframes, although i can give a general explanation, such as trauma, anger, distress, fear, boredom, loneliness, etc, none of this helps me.

i have tried to put myself out there in the open in mental health groups / support groups, but i gave up doing so do to a variety of reasons, from not relating to other people, being made uncomfortable or taken advantage from others, in fact, this was often the case, where i would be there and people would be more functional than me and / or they would make comments to make it seem like i am over exaggerating things or just getting me and then i wouldn't be able to be as assertive or communicative to my concerns, some of which had to do with safety reasons and rules i couldn't break, because either i'd lose control and explode in anger physically or verbally ( which has happened ) and cops showed up, or either way, i just sit there in pain and see other people more fortunate than me.

life in general has been very doubled edged sword for me. another thing is that most of these people i saw in person and online, in fact, all of them in person were medicated, and that's one aspect that made me feel very inferior, left out and lack of support. i would have thought that maybe there might be someone else there like me, but even if there was any, it was limited to mostly a few females maybe ( i am straight male btw ) and they were older females, not age appropriate and / or with different diagnosis and problems, and simply not people of relating, even then, i have limited ability to function, interact and communicate in person, so even if there were some rare instances of potential help, i couldn't make this a better experience, neither should i need to, like hello, perfectionism spewing? this is one of the reasons that contributes to my depression is that i was never accepted for the way i was, like i couldn't just be the way i was without someone asking me, well did you try this, did you do that, why didn't you do this, bla bla bla...

i have always felt this way with others, feeling different from them and what kind of problems they have and how they view things, etc. this is why i believe schizotypal PD fits me the closest with of course severe depression, it doesn't have to be StPD, the personality disorder aspect fits me perfectly.

so to be more precise in what i am looking for here, at least with schizoaffective disorder is, are there anyone who have this condition here, i am not talking about hypothetically or what "could be", i am simply asking per user experience, and that is if you DON'T take psychiatric medication, and if not, how do you cope with your condition, because like i mentioned, i haven't met one person in real life or on the forums who really deals with this condition without psychiatric medication, obviously there are many people that do, but i am asking specifically here

second, does anyone have this condition but doesn't have delusions or hallucinations of any kind or hearing things or seeing things that aren't there / or voices? because for one, i do not have any of these, although that recent psychiatrist believes i have some aspect of "delusions of reference", but without sounding like an asshole, she simply is uneducated and doesn't understand simple psychology. perhaps i may fall under ideas of reference which is part of schizotypal PD anyways, but certainly NOT delusions of reference which is very different. the only criteria i seem to fit to fullfill the diagnosis for schizoaffective disorder is possibly mild catatonia and / or disorganized thinking and / or psychosis

third, brings up the question of psychosis. i have not been able to get a clear definition of symptom of psychosis of actual user experiences, nor on the internet or in person, the definitions are either vague or do not make sense, or i do not relate to them.

if i do experience psychosis, it is not the type that involves all those superficial bogus or all those voices, hearing or seeing things that are not there type of things. it would be psychosis in the sense of internal psychogical and / or biological disturbances ( possibly parasites or some autoimmune disorder maybe ) that over time causes me to grow more and more fucked up and as a result, experience that ramped up feeling and wanting to scream or break things.

other feelings i can describe are a sense of dread / this dark feeling that comes that doesn't feel sad, but dreadful and scary. i normally get like this in the late evenings or night, particularly when trying to go to sleep, this is also when i experience these brain tensing up / body tensing up for a second or two that happens when i stop doing things and i am not distracting myself with something like video games.

it's my body telling me something is wrong or going haywire.

i'll try to finish this up as i wrote a lot, but i do this mainly because i usually only have certain periods where i can really invest and explain things, and i don't really see a point in spreading it out, even if i were to remember or apply it in increments.

so the last thing is that i found unusual is that the majority of people i've met in mental health groups were diagnosed with bipolar or manic depressive type illnesses and / or schizoaffective disorder and a bunch of them also had schizophrenia, despite schizoaffective disorder supposed to being very rare at what .3 - .8 percent of the population, i never understood such high prevalence of the disorder, with all things equal, you'd expect a large handful of people that had unipolar depression or other conditions, but that simply is not what i saw, hence partly why i may have not related to many.

and if i didn't mention already, but none of the people i met with schizoaffective disorder had the symptoms i had, all of them had the voices and superficial stuff i explained, and of course, all of them were medicated too..., much to my dismay
 
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John32john

Active member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
25
Location
USA
I noticed u havent gotten any replies. Im alot like you. I quit feeling your pain when i treated myself from parasites. Hope to get a response from you
 
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forumuser23

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
14
@forumuser23 can you give me an example of delusion as it was identified by your doctor?
the doctor ( general practice nurse practioner ) i saw at the time didn't specifically address delusions as the problem, she was essentially diagnosing me with schizoaffective disorder based off how my thought processes were and how i spoke, etc. she said my speech or communication was off in the sense that it wasn't "logical", or something along those lines. she wouldn't give me any more detailed information past that, for example, how her other patients were with the same diagnosis she was giving me, only giving me a nod or simple yes.

i do not see that nurse practioner anymore. the only person i saw following from there in the same insurance system was my case manager, which ironically said, yeh, we won't be setting you up with that nurse practioner anymore, this was after i told her that i didn't want to go back to that nurse practioner, due to her simply not being the right person for me, but also the fact that she was only able to prescribe certain medications, and that's already a problem when im avoiding psychiatric medications due to them in general being a lot more harmful than good for someone like me, ( i need help and support in other areas such as better living circumstances, ways of living, coping resources, better occupational health and status, etc ), should those other areas be fullfilled, then psychiatric medication can possibly be a choice, but only as last resort. i still would be opting for natural / herbal sources first, as much as possible, only then, when none of these things help to balance or regulate whatever it is that's off in my brain and body, then again, psychiatric medication MIGHT be last resort, but there is no good reasoning in why i still should be taking psychiatric medication at that point.

so as far as the delusion part goes. again, i never was told by any therapist or specialist that what i have is "delusions". i think the reason why they / or anyone would put me into that category is because i have certain beliefs and emphasis on things that i really feel have logical and factual basis to them, but explaining them and / or getting other people to understand them and be reasonable back to me about them is what ticks me off, since often the case ends up them just looking at me in a dull manner that, no, there is no correlation or even if there is, so what? like they aren't understanding that it isn't so much whether this thing or idea im saying is true or not, it's whether or not that person can be open minded and sacrifice his / her own ego and say, you know, that's actually a good point, but unfortunately, we don't really have the tools to measure that, yet alone, treatment. of course, this is self limiting, because it's very easy for anyone to say that, and can be quite lazy. instead, they should use it as something to reflect on. this is my issue with others, is that they may be very open minded elsewhere in their existence, but whenever it comes to a point that i bring up that challenges their "expertise" for example, they automatically will give the easiest answer, rather than just saying, that's a good question, i don't know.

in other words, i have a problem with both communicating to others when there is too much of a gap in "Relating", but the real intolerence comes when they can just offset their own unreasonable traits back to me, and leaving me in a state where my needs don't get met and / or ignored such as someone talking over me which is really detrimental to my functioning if i'm already putting a lot of effort to conclude something or finish what im saying, especially if it's in the case of someone using me as an example, that im delusional or that i have a delusional disorder, despite feeling that i'm making perfect sense and making very good logical points, but then i don't get the same back from others, all i usually end up getting from these doctors is a big stab in the heart ( one of the last gp doctors did this ), and this caused me slowly grow into rage, and this caused me to become what i would call "catatonic" or having symptoms of echololia, mocking her as she was leaving the room and cursed at her as she had closed the door. luckily my mom came with me at that session and somewhat calmed me down at that moment, because it could have been worse.

i don't remember exactly what that gp mentioned, at that particular moment when i went into the fit / rage, i wasn't able to calm down or listen to the remaining things she was talking about, though, not that it really mattered, i was conscious enough to know that she was half ignoring me as she switched glances to talk to my mom, but she mentioned something in the session at the time, after she conjectured a little about me, that those with schizo related conditions act in certain ways. she was sort of using me as an example that something about me is off. she of course, like many, assumed a innocent position ( as if hands tied behind hand ). because she couldn't give any more enlightenment out of observing someone who has it rough ( me ). especially in the case when i mentioned at one point that i try so much to get answers online and go to different forums and find other veneues or people, but nada, not relating. she couldn't even give me one good sense of comfort. though, again, her ego was in the way and it already had escalated for the worse throughout the session, she couldn't simply say, i don't have any answers for you, i don't know, because she doesn't need to, she's gifted in other areas that allow her to interact in a way that allows her to function and not need to say that necessarily. i envy people like her of course.

i hope this answers your question on the delusion parts or at least gives an idea of where i may fall under on it. there's lot of information and experiences i've been through and had. i may be better at answering certain questions for certain specific things. i will mention this if i haven't. it is very clear that personality disorder fits me the closest, now the question of commorbidity is a problem for me, because it matters to look at the pathology of something, in this specific case, schizoaffective disorder and clinical case examples, rather than just saying, we'll, you simply are a commorbid case. the problem is, i do not have any of that. my problem is that i've found the one half to a puzzle, but unfortunately, the puzzle is an invisible mess, not a physical display and unless you have the full picture, you can't understand it.

to put it short, it's the whole relating to people and things. i've found mostly things and people i DON'T relate to, but little to no things that i do relate to, so it's impossible to form conclusions and solutions unless you have a connection with an entity or person to which you do relate to. this is why i always would bring up my experiences with people and places and things. if i accept im just a unique case of someone with x y z disorder, it still doesn't change the fact that i do not function and also do not take medication like most of these other people that may have x u p disorder. get it?

that's also why i like Russell Barkley's examples on commorbidity. im not sure what video or what portion it was, but basically he was saying, that it doesn't make logical sense to put one condition and another together and call them commorbid if they don't belong together.
 
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linus

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
595
Location
Eastern Europe
Well, first of all only a psychatrist is entitled to make such diagnostics since there is an important part called “clinical judgement”.
Second of all, you say things like “it is logical”, but actually this is what any person with psychosis and having delusions would say: everything is logical, however it doesn’t mean the logic they built it’s based on reason (like you would put a false basement and build with logic on top of it, it still doesn’t have sense for the others), but enough with philosophy :)
Can you say what kind of topics attract you that one might say they are delusional? Also remember that the essential feature of psychosis is what they call “disconnection from reality”, this means that you can no longer just observe what is going on around you, everything gets morphed as part of the delusional scenario (everything that happens around you are signs for whatever purpose, people have “roles”) and or course the person experencing it can’t analyse itself on this, but talking to a person about this, others could identify such disconnections.
 
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forumuser23

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
14
Well, first of all only a psychatrist is entitled to make such diagnostics since there is an important part called “clinical judgement”.
Second of all, you say things like “it is logical”, but actually this is what any person with psychosis and having delusions would say: everything is logical, however it doesn’t mean the logic they built it’s based on reason (like you would put a false basement and build with logic on top of it, it still doesn’t have sense for the others), but enough with philosophy :)
Can you say what kind of topics attract you that one might say they are delusional? Also remember that the essential feature of psychosis is what they call “disconnection from reality”, this means that you can no longer just observe what is going on around you, everything gets morphed as part of the delusional scenario (everything that happens around you are signs for whatever purpose, people have “roles”) and or course the person experencing it can’t analyse itself on this, but talking to a person about this, others could identify such disconnections.
like i said, i'm better at understanding something when i have someone give me a more specific example themselves or what not, particularly in comparison of people and relationships. though i thought the examples i gave myself and experiences were enough to comprehend what exactly is going on or give a better or more unique picture, apparently that hasn't helped so far.

i understand a "psychiatrist" is only entitled to make such a diagnostic, however, even if i were to go through the caveats of finding a specific licensed one which are next to nothing in the insurance i have, at least a "good" one, it probably wouldn't make a difference if i were to find a "good psychiatrist", since they aren't very different from another.

i'm just gonna end up going there and stressing myself over trying to have a psychiatrist be more open minded and understanding about something to which they presumably understand in which they don't, but then people are gonna just walk around and tell me i have no proof that i'm right, and they're wrong.

i of course regularly see a psychologist, i've mentioned this, it's limited but it's the best that i can get so far for treatment. i've mentioned to her about "psychosis" and delusions and particularly schizoaffective disorder many times and what she knows of me and observes of me, and even how her patients are like with schizoaffective disorder and many times, she gives me sort of a ya..., i don't think you have this condition and / or schizotypal PD fits you closest, as if her other clients with this condition are vastly different but she doesn't wan't to really emphasize that with great detail because it would only prove how lonely i am dealing with my condition. she said she wasn't saying i don't have schizoaffective disorder but simply that schizotypal PD describes me better overall.

the "closest" example case she has for me in terms of having the same diagnosis as me which is schizotypal personality disorder is some girl with schizotypal personality disorder, but she doesn't really count because one, she's a girl and manifestation of the issue is probably significantly different, regardless of whether she is a girl or not, and she also like most people takes medication, specifically lamictal and abilify, which i would never take. interestingly, i was prescribed lamictal by a different psychiatrist, which actually, there is one for you that i have seen 2-3 times, and the last time we met was to share the whole genesight results together which indicated lamictal as being one of the red drugs so that i should avoid. the genesight thing was supposed to be more helpful in terms of if i were to take psychiatric medications as last resort, though it's limited in what it can identify. for example, prozac is listed in the "Green" area for me but it was a horrible drug both while taking it and while trying to taper off, and didn't do anything for me in any shape or form because it's not supposed to..., my problems are complex and related to other factors that a simple medication will not fix, unless all those other factors are taking into consideration AND the right medicine is used in conjunction to support to individual, but clearly this is not the case plan with me.

there's another guy who with StPD but the way my psychologist describes of him, we aren't really the same in terms of problems.

so again, i can't really give you an example of what topics interest me. even if there is things i believe whether in real time or unconsciously or whatever, it isn't something you could just ask me and then i give you an answer to. if you're asking about whether i'm superstitious, you could say, i'm like the narcissist in that the reality i live is all an "act", i don't feel like a true human, because i always have to adapt, accommodate or compensate in some way or in other ways, mimic or pretend to function or get things. it's not that i'm being fake, it's simply the way i am and how i survive in life. there was actually an example my psychologist mentioned and said do you feel like you're in third person, as if you're watching yourself from the outside, and i said no at the time, but really i should have said yes because that's exactly how i feel, but i didn't really get her question and whether or not i should put myself in the category or not, so i said no. but that reminds me to bring it up to her next time.

it would be much easier to get a review from a psychologist that said, we'll we diagnosed you with this or we are saying you are delusional because of this or because you answered yes to this question or because your big 5 traits combined with your MMPI-2 results indicated this. the psychologist years back who first diagnosed me with schizotypal personality disorder along with major depressive disorder existing had administered the MMPI-2 i believe.

also that nurse practioner i mentioned, when i told her about schizotypal PD, she said, conditions can change. i didn't have a problem with that viewpoint itself, however, relative to what i said earlier, it's closed off / too generalized and didn't factor in what exactly is being talked about and compared. this is my main issue with people in general, they hardly give any unique examples and cases / situations themselves, whether it's in person or online, i always here the same obvious experiences and examples from the clients i see, and it gets annoying and dumb. i just get hit the same old dull lucid experiences that don't provide a more richer experience.

if you're willing to ask me some more specific cases / detailed examples and comparisons, that i may be able to give you info on this. i have tons of experience with people with a variety of diagnosis's, both in person and online and of research literature. what i noticed is that the few people / more interesting type of people i encounter often are the people i see the least in these clinical group settings, they may like me, dive in and out at other times, finding themselves in similar experiences as me, and as a result, stop going or only come back randomly for certain reasons different from the majority of the other people.
 
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linus

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
595
Location
Eastern Europe
It’s not clear to me what were your targeting with your initial post, I thought you wanted to discuss some “technicalities”, it is very hard for me to follow you through, you are going for some kind of abstract logic although I imagined we could have touched some clear things.
 
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