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Personal & Collective Responsibility

cpuusage

cpuusage

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As far as i'm concerned i'm directly responsible / accountable for myself, my own speech & actions, & am a productive & responsible member of the community / adult, with a responsibility to the people in my life to be as kind / compassionate & of service as much as it's within my capacity to be.

i am Not responsible for the World, Humanity, how other people are; their lives & problems, how other people respond & react to me, judge & criticise me.

i am Not responsible for all the problems in this World, & the way this society / system is. i don't agree with a lot of what goes on & how things are & it's Not what i'd design or perpetuate if i had a choice or any real say & influence within it all.

i don't see blame as either healthy or useful. Reality is as it is. This World, Civilisation & Humanity is as it is. As is. All i really have any slight power over is how i am as a person on an individual basis, within my own personal choices & reactions / responses / actions. i don't have any power over others or this World. i can work on changing myself, but i can't change the World / others.

Part of my illness & part of the way this society is i think does try & lay a lot of blame on people & personal responsibility for how things are, & it's largely nonsense. What are the people within positions of the real Worldly influence, power & control doing about everything to make this World / Society /Culture / Civilisation a far better place & to address the Collective issues that Humanity is facing?

How do other people feel about all this?
 
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M

mrspoon

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But what if the world /society has lost it's way? Like over the years I think our society has changed for the worse and in my view is partly responsible for the rise in mental health problems. Sure in the old days, perhaps there was a mentality that you maintained a stiff upper lip and didn't talk about anxiety or depression {though it has to be said there is a school of thought that ,that in itself is a strategy that helps some people}, so perhaps there was more mental health issues than was thought, but things seemed far less complicated.

Everyone seemed to know then ,what there role was and what was expected of them. Has feminism made women happier? Has men having less responsibility made them happier? Has social revolution of the sixties meant, the fact people can basically do as they like providing they don't hurt anyone else, made people happier? It could be argued that people feel more secure when there are more moral judgements made about certain lifestyles and behaviours. I think in the past,it would be seen as shameful to dump a relative into the hands of the state because they are old or ill. It happens much more these days because people are so self obsessed and selfish. It isn't just the younger generation either. The baby boomers seem to have developed this mentality.

Then we have the advent of the internet age, and people don't seem to have the social skills anymore. They are more suspicious of strangers. people are generally less friendly. Neighbourhoods don't have the sense of community they once had. There is an emphasis, in people having total and complete choice over their lives, themselves ,but I think that is a double edged sword.Because it absolves society of blame or responsibility when things go wrong.

I personally believe in both. I think people ought to as far as they can take responsibilty for their actions, very few do not have any control, I do question insanity defences for instance,even for those with a genuine non drug induced psychotic illness. I think very few even of those have absolutely no sense of right and wrong. This is a dodgy area to get into, yet I feel I must. It doesn't escape me that often the victims of people with psychotic illness who go on a rampage ,tend to be women or the elderly. I see very few fit strong men do they choose to attack. And obviously if the psychosis is caused by drugs, I see that as an aggravating factor, it should not be used to mitigate a terrible crime. They chose to take those drugs.

On the other hand, I think society as a collective, ought to care more about their neighbour, I don't think the 'ilm alright jack ' is helpful, I think it is partly the cause of bed blocking in our hospitals to be frank. People just want the state to pick up the pieces . I do think how someone is brought up as children, has a massive effect on what kind of adult they will be and future they will have. I think very few are born bad. I was struck by the parents of that woman spree killer, who killed several men. Who talked about disowning her ,saying 'she isn't my daughter' anymore. Well, their daughter does indeed hold culpability for her actions and has been punished for it, she will never leave prison ,which I think is right. However, I would suggest something happened in her childhood to turn her into that monster, and I think her parents want to make out they have no connection to her because deep down inside they know things but don't want to admit it to others or themselves.

So I think there should be more responsibility in society generally. People should take more responsbility for themselves, not blaming it on illness/childhood/poverty whatever, but also they should take more for other people as well.As it would make society more healthy. I also don't believe the concept, that we can do whatever we like, anything is permissible is a healthy attitude either. I think a few more moral judgements should be made.
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

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So I think there should be more responsibility in society generally. People should take more responsbility for themselves, not blaming it on illness/childhood/poverty whatever, but also they should take more for other people as well.As it would make society more healthy. I also don't believe the concept, that we can do whatever we like, anything is permissible is a healthy attitude either. I think a few more moral judgements should be made.
i do agree - But personally i come back to the same thing -

"As far as i'm concerned i'm directly responsible / accountable for myself, my own speech & actions, & am a productive & responsible member of the community / adult, with a responsibility to the people in my life to be as kind / compassionate & of service as much as it's within my capacity to be.

i am Not responsible for the World, Humanity, how other people are; their lives & problems, how other people respond & react to me, judge & criticise me.

i am Not responsible for all the problems in this World, & the way this society / system is. i don't agree with a lot of what goes on & how things are & it's Not what i'd design or perpetuate if i had a choice or any real say & influence within it all."

How this society / system & other people are isn't my responsibility.
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

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How this society / system & other people are isn't my responsibility.
i'm Not responsible for how anyone else thinks, feels, acts, speaks & behaves. i'm Not a CEO / Director, or member of Parliament, the Monied / banking class, a member of the Elite, or social leader / someone with social power in any capacity. Other than the degree of social activism that i'm involved with & being a personally responsible member of society what can i do about the state of Civilisation / Society?
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

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i'm Not responsible for how anyone else thinks, feels, acts, speaks & behaves. i'm Not a CEO / Director, or member of Parliament, the Monied / banking class, a member of the Elite, or social leader / someone with social power in any capacity. Other than the degree of social activism that i'm involved with & being a personally responsible member of society what can i do about the state of Civilisation / Society?
Also, there is No one who has ever made a dent in things within a core systemic level - Never - The same intrinsic system, in evidence for some 6 to 9 thousand years, possibly longer, remains. Sure, many have worked within various systems, but the fundamental essence of things on this planet remains the same.
 
pepecat

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How this society / system & other people are isn't my responsibility.
I don't entirely agree with this. I think it depends on how you treat people. If you've got children, and you bring them up badly and they are mean to other kids, then how those 'other people' (your kids) are IS your responsibility. If you treat your friend badly over a period of time, and they then are mean to others as a result, then that is partly your responsibility. If your actions at work, for example, lead to someone else going home stressed and upset every day, then that is partly your responsibility.
If you say things in an aggressive manner, or a rude way, or are confrontational with people you meet, that is your responsibility. There are ways of dealing with people and getting views and opinions across that don't upset people. It's all very well to go 'Well it's not my responsibility how they react', and to an extent that's true, but it IS our responsibility as to how we say / frame things.

I think also there's a difference between macro society and micro society. Again, it's easy to throw our hands in the air and go 'well i'm not in charge, it's nothing to do with me', but that's very defeatist, imo.
We can vote, sign petitions, email MPs, start a campaign - there are ways of getting engaged with wider politics - heck, even go INTO local politics if we feel that strongly. The macro society is hard to change, and sometimes seems like we're stuck in some stupid rat race that no one can ever get out of and is forever on a downward spiral. But, I do believe that Ghandi's 'Be the change you want to see in the world' is true. And therefore, on a micro level, in the people we meet and interact with, we can be different. If you think society is by and large selfish, be kind and generous. If you think society is by and large greedy and consumerist, live simply and ethically. If you think society is caught up in celebrity crap and shallowness, mention to people that you're interested in other things - more meaningful and deeper connections. I think actions speak louder than words - if people can see how you live and how you treat others, it might make them think about how they act and live, and little by little, change happens. The micro can affect the macro - the macro is made up of the micro, after all.

No ONE person is responsible for ALL the problems in the world - of course, but I do think collectively we have a responsibility to challenge those in charge, and to live as best we can in a responsible way towards those around us. Otherwise we end up being passive defeatists - 'None of it is anything to do with me, I didn't make it the way it is and it's not up to me to change it'. But if we all sit there doing nothing, then that way badness (and madness) lie. As Edmund Burke said “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
 
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cpuusage

cpuusage

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I don't entirely agree with this. I think it depends on how you treat people. If you've got children, and you bring them up badly and they are mean to other kids, then how those 'other people' (your kids) are IS your responsibility. If you treat your friend badly over a period of time, and they then are mean to others as a result, then that is partly your responsibility. If your actions at work, for example, lead to someone else going home stressed and upset every day, then that is partly your responsibility.
If you say things in an aggressive manner, or a rude way, or are confrontational with people you meet, that is your responsibility. There are ways of dealing with people and getting views and opinions across that don't upset people. It's all very well to go 'Well it's not my responsibility how they react', and to an extent that's true, but it IS our responsibility as to how we say / frame things.

I think also there's a difference between macro society and micro society. Again, it's easy to throw our hands in the air and go 'well i'm not in charge, it's nothing to do with me', but that's very defeatist, imo.
We can vote, sign petitions, email MPs, start a campaign - there are ways of getting engaged with wider politics - heck, even go INTO local politics if we feel that strongly. The macro society is hard to change, and sometimes seems like we're stuck in some stupid rat race that no one can ever get out of and is forever on a downward spiral. But, I do believe that Ghandi's 'Be the change you want to see in the world' is true. And therefore, on a micro level, in the people we meet and interact with, we can be different. If you think society is by and large selfish, be kind and generous. If you think society is by and large greedy and consumerist, live simply and ethically. If you think society is caught up in celebrity crap and shallowness, mention to people that you're interested in other things - more meaningful and deeper connections. I think actions speak louder than words - if people can see how you live and how you treat others, it might make them think about how they act and live, and little by little, change happens. The micro can affect the macro - the macro is made up of the micro, after all.

No ONE person is responsible for ALL the problems in the world - of course, but I do think collectively we have a responsibility to challenge those in charge, and to live as best we can in a responsible way towards those around us. Otherwise we end up being passive defeatists - 'None of it is anything to do with me, I didn't make it the way it is and it's not up to me to change it'. But if we all sit there doing nothing, then that way badness (and madness) lie. As Edmund Burke said “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
& i do all that as best that i can within my capacity to.

i don't have kids. If i did then of course i would have a direct responsibility to them to do the best for them. i do my best to be kind & be of service to others, to do what is right, good & kind. i have done a lot in terms of social activism as much as it's been within my capacity to do. Even within the constraints of this forum & the internet i think that i have done well in trying to raise an awareness on certain issues & to work with a few people in trying to help them, within the context of certain ways some people have / do react to me.

i don't see anything majorly wrong in the way i speak with or am with people, & i have made a lot of effort to Not react to some people in the same way. Why is that most people have No problem with who i am & how i speak & a few others do? & how is that my responsibility for how they are & they choose to react & respond? It's Not.

i have a direct responsibility & accountability for my own life, speech & actions. i am Not responsible for the lives, speech & actions of others, & i'm certainly Not responsible for the way this system / society is. In being as reasonable as i can be, & i think that i am a reasonable person, how is it my fault how some people choose to react to what i say / how i am? Maybe in certain ways i can be a certain catalyst within certain situations & with some people? Maybe i do bring stuff up in certain people, But that's Not necessarily a bad thing - it's their stuff & it's in them if that is what is coming up, maybe it's healthy & ultimately healing for them to have such stuff raised in them, so they can look at their own issues & deal with it all?
 
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cpuusage

cpuusage

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& i do all that as best that i can within my capacity to.
What more can i do exactly pepecat about everything & the ways everything is? i've been a bit wild in the distant past, But wasn't that bad compared to a lot of what goes on, & my part in a lot of what went on was very small. Certainly for the past 15 years i have been living a responsible life & Not harming people or engaging in anything bad. Have been through / suffered a severe mental illness, but that doesn't make me a bad person & i haven't done anything that bad ever. i'm Not saying that i'm a Saint / Angel & i'm Not, But Nor am i the way some people have tried to make me out, & why do they do that? They should be looking at their own lives. Me posting about certain subjects that are a bit controversial, fringe or non-mainstream, or being critical of the current society /system i don't see as some bad thing either - what's so wrong in doing that? As if everything on this planet is wonderful? It doesn't make sense to then denigrate & attack me for it all.

To suppose that in a World of some 7.5 Billion people, within the current Global Industrial, Banking, Political, Religious & other parts of the system, that i have any more responsibility for it all or in changing it all than any of the other 7.5 Billion people on the planet - is Mad.
 
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cpuusage

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I don't entirely agree with this. I think it depends on how you treat people. If you've got children, and you bring them up badly and they are mean to other kids, then how those 'other people' (your kids) are IS your responsibility. If you treat your friend badly over a period of time, and they then are mean to others as a result, then that is partly your responsibility. If your actions at work, for example, lead to someone else going home stressed and upset every day, then that is partly your responsibility.
If you say things in an aggressive manner, or a rude way, or are confrontational with people you meet, that is your responsibility. There are ways of dealing with people and getting views and opinions across that don't upset people. It's all very well to go 'Well it's not my responsibility how they react', and to an extent that's true, but it IS our responsibility as to how we say / frame things.
i don't treat people badly. Within my day to day life i don't say things in an aggressive manner, or a rude way, or are confrontational with people i meet.

We can vote, sign petitions, email MPs, start a campaign - there are ways of getting engaged with wider politics - heck, even go INTO local politics if we feel that strongly. The macro society is hard to change, and sometimes seems like we're stuck in some stupid rat race that no one can ever get out of and is forever on a downward spiral. But, I do believe that Ghandi's 'Be the change you want to see in the world' is true. And therefore, on a micro level, in the people we meet and interact with, we can be different. If you think society is by and large selfish, be kind and generous. If you think society is by and large greedy and consumerist, live simply and ethically. If you think society is caught up in celebrity crap and shallowness, mention to people that you're interested in other things - more meaningful and deeper connections. I think actions speak louder than words - if people can see how you live and how you treat others, it might make them think about how they act and live, and little by little, change happens. The micro can affect the macro - the macro is made up of the micro, after all.
i always have voted, taken part in endless petitions, written to my MP for years, & engaged in all kind of activism. i have contributed to educational materials, support groups, & all kinds of other stuff. i got a letter through to the National NHS Citizens gather Conference & set the theme for their main talk. i set up a forum. i've written extensively to the department of heath & local care commissioning groups.

No ONE person is responsible for ALL the problems in the world - of course, but I do think collectively we have a responsibility to challenge those in charge, and to live as best we can in a responsible way towards those around us. Otherwise we end up being passive defeatists - 'None of it is anything to do with me, I didn't make it the way it is and it's not up to me to change it'. But if we all sit there doing nothing, then that way badness (and madness) lie. As Edmund Burke said “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Personally i have Never sat around doing Nothing. i have certainly challenged people in charge, & have certainly lived as best that i can in a responsible way towards the people & community around me.
 
cpuusage

cpuusage

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i have a direct responsibility & accountability for my own life, speech & actions. i am Not responsible for the lives, speech & actions of others, & i'm certainly Not responsible for the way this system / society is. In being as reasonable as i can be, & i think that i am a reasonable person, how is it my fault how some people choose to react to what i say / how i am? Maybe in certain ways i can be a certain catalyst within certain situations & with some people? Maybe i do bring stuff up in certain people, But that's Not necessarily a bad thing - it's their stuff & it's in them if that is what is coming up, maybe it's healthy & ultimately healing for them to have such stuff raised in them, so they can look at their own issues & deal with it all?
"When bullies bully, when emotional abusers abuse, when cheaters cheat, they are all projecting pain from a space of incompleteness. What they are seeking is wholeness from an outside source, hurt people hurt people. We can break those chains with the awareness that we are not responsible to carry their pain."

Chantelle Renee
Aligning with the Divine
Chantelle Renee
 
Kerome

Kerome

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I largely agree with CPU's original post. There is only so much you can do - the best attitude to take is to be aware of your effect on others and the ripple effects caused by that. The wrong words to a woman in crisis can have a lasting effect on her and perhaps her children and even her children's children. So it is best to try to always be courteous and kind, try to be generous and helpful.

I do think beyond a duty to the people we are in contact with we also have a duty to the planet. That means participating in recycling, not being wasteful with what we buy, being responsible with nature reserves and looking after animals and pets, as well as supporting things like sustainable fisheries and humane livestock practices (even if we are already vegetarian).
 
Ponder

Ponder

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Sure ... it is what it is, however if I don't like what is - I can change my perspective that what is, is no longer is.

I choose not to vote as much as I choose not to participate in a society I care not to exist in. I'd like to say I am find with that, however it does sadden me that what is often makes a loud noise and disturbs my peace.

I accept responsibility for as much as the things I have control over. I choose not to drink and eat much of what is sold on our shelves as I know it's designed to make me an addict and in due course ... rather sick.

That's yet another sad fact of this world. Alas ... the air I breath being quite toxic as it is, the state of our water and the chemicals in our clothes and furniture ... bla bla bla ... are all part of systems I have no control of. Yet ... I choose to accept the toxic rock on which I live for what it is and salvage what I can by choosing to believe in what little fertile mind states that alleviate my pain of existing in a world as is.

My long time family pet is about to die, my wife's illness draining her all the more, my brother's suicide still plays on my minds and more death comes to my door with each passing year. In the scale of things, I really care to analyse the state of affairs outside my control. The world as is is for all intent purposes a very toxic place and for all I know, it's always been.

I care not for this thing that others badger on about called WORK ... a J-O-B ... or the need that I MUST VOTE in a world I no longer care to live ... I participate NOT and reject without care for the malevolence of others who claim whatever of others that they should or should not.

I do however do the best I can for myself in learning to find snippets of fresh air, putting one foot in front of the other and resting in between so that on my next round I can take bigger gulps, hold me breath without and thoughts whatsoever ... that I may find myself in longer states of peace without a care for all the superficial garbage and concepts that this toxic society constantly sells.

But to be fair ... the word responsibility to me is a vague as the concept of God, Free Will and all other likewise monkey minded terms. I cheapen the term property as I do the word OWN ... I care little for any kind of claims at all ... entitlements, rights and all other forms of oppressive terms that play back into the world of blame, shame and guilt.

In this regard I care little to claim any kind of responsibility whatsoever - I just do what I can to ease the pain of being in a world gone wrong by choosing to embrace those little spaces between all the loud noises, clouds of smog, the bitter faces, bustling traffic, imposing adverts, mobile devices, beeping notifications, reminder notices and on and on and on.

My disassociating is an art form that helps to keep my from being swallowed up. It's not about owning any kind of right to live on as is but more about doing what I can to sustain an environment that supports my intention to continue living full stop. Anything less is not living - just a superficial meaningless existence.

So it is that I will get up in the morning, watch what I eat and drink, go for a long walk doing my best to avoid what toxicity I can until such a point I will eventually die. I choose not to fuss over the fact that there is not much fresh air to breath and or my ability to afford to move - I do however enjoy the times when the cloud of smog gives way momentarily to the rising sun and or moon. Without all the societally distraction constantly spinning in my head, I am able to find many pockets within such toxic clouds no matter how little of nature is left.

Again ... I care little to claim my willingness to live as clean as I can in a toxic world and live on in a world I care little for as some kind of responsible action as the notion itself plays into all other concepts of oppression this world sows so well. Most people I know that have suffered like me have killed themselves - I don't blame them at all. I am nobody special just because I have weathered more of the storm than someone else.

For me ... it's not about owning ourselves. It's more about just accepting who we be and making the best choices regardless of how limiting they may seem. In fact the more you come to understand that, the more limitless time becomes and the easier it is to breath; no matter how thick the smog.
 
pepecat

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Why is that most people have No problem with who i am & how i speak & a few others do? & how is that my responsibility for how they are & they choose to react & respond?
None of my post was intended as criticism at all. If it came across that way, I'm sorry - it wasn't intended. I put in the bit about kids and work precisely because I know you don't have kids and aren't in paid work so would realise (I hoped) that nothing was directed at you personally.
 
pepecat

pepecat

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What more can i do exactly pepecat about everything & the ways everything is?
If you're doing as much as you can in your capacity, then that's fine. Was your original post about you specifically? - in which case the 'what do others think?' question at the end sort of invites personal comment about how you live.
Or, if your original post was more general about everyone's personal and/or collective responsibility, then the question at the end also invites more general comment about everyone's responsibilities, which is what my post was addressing.
Either way, other people's views were asked for. I was assuming you didn't want comments about you specifically, hence there weren't any. I don't know you, so don't know what you get up to, and therefore can't comment.
 
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