no help for narcissists ony their survivors...what about me?

[Megan44]

I sort of just want input from people who have dealt with narcissists or are one...about 6 months or so ago my life was falling apart, I was failing out of college, I wasn't as enthused about work...and so it was like for the first time in my perfect little life that I was suddenly not so perfect...so I searched online and looked upon my solid stack of used psychology books, I felt that maybe somehow, something was wrong with me. Just by the solemn stares from some of my coworkers because of my (upon looking back) strange behavior made me second guess the grand scheme of things..and came to the well thought out conclusion that I probably had NPD...I actually liked the self diagnosis, my life was falling apart cause I just had too big of dreams, and that I was a bit too arrogant (okay I skewed the definition a bit, but I liked the idea of it, and it made my problems suddenly not my fault, and suddenly not my problem anymore)...Also, I must say, I have the psych experience to back my diagnosis, I am going to school for nursing, but am only a few credits away from a psych degree, and all my psych classes I passed with top marks and even the very best marks in the whole class for a few of them, top student, so I do know what I am talking about...But the one thing that bothered me when I looked for answers about NPD is that they rarely had help for the grandiose but more often than not help for the victims of abuse by the narcissists....okay, I get that some people have been through hell, but what about me? Right now I am at a great place in my life, I am in management at my work, given gifts and love, and at my school I am a little star..but often I get too confident and don’t study enough for tests because I think I know it all, or I won’t show up to class cause I start writing a book, and at times I don’t even feel in control. I am impatient and get annoyed easy I’m explosive and vain..So what about me? Am I expected to suffer in silence cause you know that’s not going to happen..I will take it out on everyone around me..And why shouldn't I? And what about the fact that I am brilliant, my IQ's 142, I have the right to get annoyed when people are incompetent, I have the right to get pissed at people..Don’t I? It's strange, people tell me one of two things, either that I’m am very warm and caring or that I am extremely cold and detached...I used to think I had empathy cause I would pretend to care, I would hug someone after a funeral and tell them I felt so sorry, but I soon realize that was just good intentions and an act, and often I had to try and keep myself from laughing cause of the awkwardness of it all...I really didn't care if their loved one died or if they were sick or suffered....how must you think I feel living with that? Without the capacity to care? Honestly it sucks because I have to put on this big act all the time when all I really want to do is to tell them to shut up and stop whining! It is difficult, and I keep it in cause of social norms, I am forced to conform...what about me? What about what I want and need? It stresses me out sooo much to pretend to care..lately life has been going great, my work has promoted me, and I can’t help but wonder if I am really a narcissist now, it was my self-diagnosis, and an accurate one I believe, but the one thing that bothers me is that I’ve heard over and over again that where there is a narcissist there will be victims...I don’t think I have any victims, I tell people like it is but that’s that...I’ve gotten better at controlling my anger at people and hatred towards them...I usually have good intentions I just usually think I know what’s best...and usually I’m right, but people often don’t like things shoved upon them, and I have this awful habit of forcing people to do things cause I feel I am in the right....if you go into Narcissistic supply, I have an abundance of it at my work, I am the most loved and cherished wonderful manager, everyone says so, and maybe that’s why I have no victims, I don’t have a lack of NS...I go to work and people worship me, yesterday this coworker bought me earrings cause she thought I was so great and deserved them, I can’t stop people from giving to me, and don’t want to anyways...the only problem is that I am very addicted to my work and at home I don’t want to see anyone and become a zombie cause nothing can compare the high I feel at work, I am their star and they know that without me it would all go to hell, I am told this....my scores are the greatest I have awards and am sent to special events cause I am the best they have...they like to show me off, their shining star....idk...I honestly don't feel arrogant as much as I just feel I am at a different level, I feel my ideas are better and I think quicker and am more creative, work faster and am more competent...as a human though, I don’t feel better than, I don't give as much as I should or feel the need to, and I do realize that, but if you had me and the kindest person in the world in a competition together , Id kick their ass at whatever we were competing at, that’s just a fact. I just want some responses, these are just some thoughts going through my head...I am actually sort of depressed today, sleep deprived, hungry and out of money...I just need something to stimulate me, make me soul search or something, figure myself out...what about me...

xoxo.megan

 

[Ashami]

Recognizing a Narcissist

According to Sam Vaknin, "Narcissists are an elusive breed, hard to spot, harder to pinpoint, impossible to capture. Even an experienced mental health diagnostician with unmitigated access to the record and to the person examined would find it fiendishly difficult to determine with any degree of certainty whether someone suffers from an impairment, i.e., a mental health disorder � or merely possesses narcissistic traits, a narcissistic personality structure ('character'), or a narcissistic 'overlay' superimposed on another mental health problem."

Here is more input:

* They are the biggest liars you've ever seen. They will look you right in your eyes, swear on a stack of bibles and tell you the biggest lie you've ever heard. They will say they're not going to do something, while plotting to do just what they say they wouldn't do. They're very out of touch with their feelings. They talk just to hear themselves talk - while not believing anything they're trying to convince you of.

* It will become obvious very soon: an over-inflated ego. Astonishing lies. Exaggerated emotion.

* The old adage "if its too good to be true then it usually is" applies directly to narcissists.

* On first meeting a narcissist will engage you directly with their eyes, then they will move away from you. They will make you feel unique and that because they have such a grandiose sense of self worth then their attentions on you also reflect your worth. They will initially flatter you in a way that can be quite embarassing. e.g, "I made you blush," "No you didn't," "Yes I did. Look you've gone all pink." A narcissist projects an air of his own self importance. His facade is well cultivated. The very second you construe a behaviour that is immoral in anyway and he/she uses an excuse to justify the behaviour that is in itself immoral then you most likely are in the presence of a naracissist.

* How can you recognize a narcissist? I would say look at his family. His family, like ours, is a springboard of verbal and emotional abuse. He treats himself to everything, but his family has financial restrictions. He doesn't participate in caretaking or nurturning, however he is quite availiable to condemn, criticize and complain. The only great ideas are his, and the only valid purchases are those he justifies. He brags about how smart, healthy, talented and unique he is, but fails to appreciate everyone around him. He even puts his children down to elevate his own ego, and truly fails to appreciate what he so boldly steps on. There is no empathy, only exaggerated self emotion, self importance and self concern. You will have no peace living with a NPD, but removing him from your family's lives is no easier with this knowledge. Before you know it, you are entwined and smothered in his oppression, gasping for air for you and your family. I think a N is like toxic waste, there is no way to remain healthy while one is in your life.

* A narcissist is, at first glance, a friendly, real person. This is the narcissist's bait. The person lures people in, only to control them, in any shape ore form. You will not recognize this, but as time progresses, you will feel guilty. The most important thing to recognize is that you need to live your own life and not be controlled by a narcissist. They steal your relationships with people and haunt your feelings. They are a very special, wicked breed of people, who get away with what they do. My advice: be careful with who you meet; don't be misled.

* They will relate to the problems in your life, claiming that something very similar has happened to them. They make it sound like they and they alone truely understand and relate to you. They get you to share very personal things and make you feel like you've found someone who has been through what you have been through. And it's very comforting.

* It is difficult at first since they try to charm. Some possibilities: They have no sense of humor ... They manipulate and control ... They do not have a significant number of long-term relationships ... Their eyes have no soul They talk but only to hear themselves; dominate conversations ... They try to give people their opinions ... They love attention ... They are cheap ... This person's close friends have begun to assume some of their characteristics but don't hide them in front of you because they are not activley trying to manipulate you (yet)

* Benign narcissist are usually just braggarts. Malignant narcissist have subtle ways of cutting down other people. I am always surprised at their ability to brainwash people. Here are some of them I noticed, but I'm sure there are plenty more tricks they use out there. Everything they say is exaggeration, deception or lie. Everyone word out of their mouth is 1) self praise or, 2)cut someone or some group down. Biggest clue is that when they get done talking to you, you are left with a negative impression of someone, but the N never came right out and said anything directly. Train yourself to become aware as soon as you think someting negative about someone. You didn't really think it up yourself. It was planted. So be on the look out for sudden bad lighting on someone.

* Narcissists are by definition liars. They appear to be something they are not. They seem educated, confidant, charming, and social. They are master manipulators and total control freaks. They have no emotions and are void of empathy. They feel for no one but themselves. They are a bottomless pit that is never satisfied. They are incapable of giving and receieving true love. They think they are better than everyone else, always right and never wrong, and their way is always the best way to do anything. They love attention. They think only of themselves, but make you think they are thinking of your best intrests. They dont mind buying you lavish gifts as long as they do not have to give of themselves, especially their time. Their time is precious to them and you do not deserve any of their time unless it is to their benefit. You exist solely to please them. To them, you are less than human, you are not worthy of their mere presence.

* Constant talking and praising of herself while putting others down. She always has the better recipe, has eaten a better meal than you a serving her, knows more about any topic than you do, and when she is unfamliar with the topic insists on immediately changing the topic. Forgets her friends and families birthdays, and doesn't care about it; while at the same time expecting huge parties and lavish gifts for her own birthday. Lies easily, and with such ease that it is difficult to detect, since it is so common. Always wants more from you; you could never give enough. When people call her a "princess" she thinks it is a compliment. Competes with people on every dimension; if you are sick, you should feel sorry for HER since she feels bad that you are sick. Never goes out of her way for anyone, even a dying "best" friend. Thinks she is entitled to everything in the world; does not expect to earn anything. You can tell when she is on the phone with anyone, since the other party is limited to saying "uh huh" or the like. She never asks people about their interests, and doesn't care what they do. Her children's accomplishments are only valuable to the extent she can boast about them to other people. She dominates (or tries to) any social gathering. She has no intimate knowledge of another human being. She sees herself as extremely talented and extraordinarily bright, more than most of the world. She expects gain with no effort. She has no empathy with other people.

* Unfortunately you dont really detect anything until they have made sure your hooked. But I can list the most obvious traits I had in my nightmarish experience. 1. Will lie blatantly whilst looking you directly in the eyes. 2. Will lie about who they are, what they do, and even what they had for breaky if they feel like it. 3. It's all about them and their problems and their needs all the time, if you try to tell them about you....a look of disinterest will appear on their faces...and they lead it back to them. 4. Your emotions and feelings and needs mean nothing...you are only there for their needs...end of story. 5.Their moods and emotions are extreme...and one night they can be crying and sobbing and (sucking you dry for support) and the next day they havnt a worry in the world. 6.They will push and push for what they want until you succumb to their wishes or needs regardless of how you feel about it. 7.They have to be with people and are terrified of their parents dying and leaving them (if of course the parents are supplying something they need). 8. They are never at fault, and even if they say it once or twice that they are...its only words to make them seem more human. 9. When they find other better fresher supplies of attention...you will become non existant, until they may need you again one day when they may just rear their heads again and try and suck you back in. 10. They will be nice as pie to your face and turn around and tell the next person they see and say you are nothing to them. 11. They are master manipulators and use any information they have on you to control you and get them what they want. 12. Their emotions are shallow and have no meaning and everyone in their lives are nothing but a source of attention. 13. They say things that are so out there that you think they have gone to another planet.

 

[Lozzi_1004]

Ashami's post raises a good point. My friend's dad had NPD along with bipolar and I have to say he wasn't a nice man.
You may have a high IQ and a near qualification but you're still not qualified to diagnose - a proper psych will .
You raise a good point that there aren't many support groups for sufferers of NPD but I don't think many of them would go to be honest (speaking from my one and only experience of the disorder here) but you could try your local MH team and see if they can point you in the right direction of support groups - maybe not specifically for NPD but for personality disorders, them maybe you could work with them to set up an NPD support group.
But like Ashami says it's extremely difficult to diagnose.

 

[Megan44]

I don’t really want a support group, to tell you the truth I’d be embarrassed to go to it. I just want ideas thrown around on an online anonymous forum to see if what I’m going through is normal or what.....btw, Sam Vernikin is not a psychiatrist and I have more of a psych degree than he does...I just say that cause so many people quote him...yes he might be a narcissist but that doesn't give him the almighty unbridled knowledge on all narcissists...I also do not want to go to a therapist, last time I tried to go I could tell the lady thought I was on drugs or something cause of the questions she was asking (I swear I’m not) I am just fidgety, and was especially fidgety that day cause I didn't want to be there...I obviously knew more about mental health than her , it was annoying, but it was a university psychiatrist so what can you expect?...my mother used to be a psychiatrist, but I would never go to her cause she is family, that would be humiliating, plus there would be that bias....I don't trust psychiatrists anyways..I think I mostly wanted confirmation that I could be NPD or at least have narcissistic tendencies and still be a decent person...I think I could because I feel proud about how I treat and care for people....so I guess, even if I don't care about these people, I have too much pride to be an ass hole to them...I do know family members have gotten the brute of my verbal flow, but they are used to it and find it funny I think cause I just go off, I’m not even angry, I just get really really annoyed, so it’s not harmful...but I think I usually have good intentions, and my end goal for things is usually good, I just don't care...I really was hoping for some original ideas and thoughts here, not quotes from narcissists or the DSM criteria...I’ve done my research already, I really would like, and hope for something new...maybe some original thoughts…Don’t worry, I won’t take your original thoughts as the word of god and run out and sue you if your ideas aren’t the epiphany of greatness…Its just I’ve read so much about it online, and was hoping for something new, maybe something I hadn’t thought of.

 

[Ashami]

I'd love to deliberate on the nuances of narcissism with you but I know that ultimately, in doing so, I would only be serving to indulge you, so I won't bother

 

[Megan44]

haha...actually...you're probably right cause I'm not even sure myself why I came on here today lol...I guess for people to tell me I'm a decent person? get attention (today is my day off of work..hmm), tell you that I am a manager and go to college full time to be a nurse lol...wow...I just kind of thought of that... you know me too well and you don't even know me!I don't plan these things out deliberately

 

[Sine]

Narcisists

I'm a member but don't usually post. However, I feel the need today after reading these posts.

Ashami, you have just partly identified my daughter. And this has coincided with a week of her being sacked again, finding out about her latest lies from her brother and having to keep things from her Dad, because the poor soul wouldn't be able to take any more. She just lies about everything and gets into such terrible debt and we have bailed her out by thousands of pounds. Not anymore though. I have tried to find reasons and make excuses for her and have done for the last 10 years but things are getting worse and worse. And today, something has just dawned on me. She doesn't love me and has never said sorry. I love her so much but feel as if my daughter has died. We have had so many problems with health and things - big stuff. But she never asks about stuff. Just seems to retreat until things go away. She is not a bad person but then again is she?

There are episodes of the old daughter now and again but I should have been stricter over the years, I think, and not allow her to think that what she does is ok.

 

[Megan44]

Hello Sine,

sorry to hear about your troubles with your daughter. Sense Ashami has seemed to have abandoned this thread compleatly (and probably cause she is ignoring me in general cause of the nature of this thread), I will try and enlighten you. I feel I have studied personality dissorders extensivly in HS university and on my own, but only a qualified proffesional can diagnose and treat your daughters problems..anyway, alot of your daughters troubles are common amongst many of the cluster b personality dissorders: Narcissistic personality dissorder, Histrionic Personality dissorder, Antisocial Personality dissorder, and borderline personality dissorder...

Personality Disorders
People with Cluster B Personality Disorders tend to act in Dramatic, Emotional and Erratic fashion. People with Cluster B disorders tend to have difficulty with impulsive behavior, they often violate social norms, and act out. They can be self-abusive and hostile to others.

personality dissorders tend to be comorbid with eachother, especially dissorders from the same axis..what you described to me is very much cluster b, and what she described is also cluster b...

Antisocial Personality Disorder (301.7)

No superego or conscious (no sense of right and wrong)
Willing to Lie
Not bound by Social Norms
Can be pleasant/polished/slick
Possible criminal record
Potential for Violence
Impulsive
Enjoys humiliating and demeaning others


Narcissistic Personality Disorder (301.81)
Grandiosity, Exhibitionism
Lack of Empathy
Unrealistic self evaluation
Hypersensitivity to Criticism
Need for constant approval



Histrionic Personality Disorder (301.50)
Overly Dramatic, Theatrical
Needs to be center of attention
Attention seeking
Excessive concern with physical appearance
Vanity
Demanding, manipulative
Frequent Tantrums
Need continual stimulation
Sexually provocative
DSM Criteria




Borderline Personality Disorder (301.83)
Emotional and Interpersonal Instability
Rapid mood swings between ups and downs
Reacting strongly to separations
No clear goals or direction
Inconsistent
Frequently considers self-harm

find which one fits your daughter best and then combine it with ashanis definition above and you have a simple at home diagnosis....but remember it takes a proffional to diagnose...they have to falll under the criteria under the DSMIV....if you have any questions you can send me a PM and Ill reply promptly...

x.megan

 

[Soultime12]

I have just ended a relationship with a narcissist I went through 18 months of hell he seemed charming funny and loving I grew up with him when young and fell for him after he messaged me on social media he soon changed into a nasty unfeeling character void of emotions even telling me I scored only a 2 where love was concerned whilst he knew I saw him as a 10, when I finally ended it because all it was just sex to him and a giant ego boost whilst I felt depressed and anxious constantly I blocked him everywhere but couldn't block e mails so he sent me a string of nasty messages belittling me even further I just deleted them now I have my self respect back and I advise anyone that comes across this personality disorder to run and don't look back they are sick individuals.

 

[tiltawhirl3]

We went total no contact with fiancee's parents a couple months ago. His mother is poster child for malignant narcissist. Don't know exactly what his dad is but he is a nasty piece of work.

David is in therapy learning to deal with it. They should have been jailed when the kids were kids due to felonious child abuse.