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New research regarding clinical depression+my story- there's hope

U

UV4D

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NOTE: If you are UNDER 18 years of age, PLEASE DISCUSS THIS WITH YOUR PARENT(S) and DOCTOR(S) FIRST


Hello all, I am a fellow depressive. I suffered from depression since childhood, and I say this because my mother had told me that she'd ask the doctors why I slept soo much, and even the doctors said that the amount I slept was very unusual, but they couldn't figure out why. I was in my early 20s when I was finally officially diagnosed with major depression; the disease that ran through my father's side of the family. This all helped explain why I lead such an apathetic life. Always feeling tired, lethargic, and a lot of anger/sadness towards myself because I always felt like I kept letting everyone else down, because of my depression and the effects it had on me. I've spoken to shrinks but there was never anything they could tell me that I already didn't know. I've also been prescribed pretty much every pill out there that doctors use to treat depressives- some have worked, but after a little while I'd gain tolerance so the effects would wear off. Though, I am a pretty motivated person, so I did a lot of research on my own because the doctors didn't really help me all that much. 8 years later I got it figured out. Now, I just wanna make sure that everyone else knows what I know, so they can feel as I feel.
I made a little video explaining my theory and showing how to apply it safely.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=93947E6D578E0A84

Share the knowledge.
 
Ashami

Ashami

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NOTE: If you are UNDER 18 years of age, PLEASE DISCUSS THIS WITH YOUR PARENT(S) and DOCTOR(S) FIRST


Hello all, I am a fellow depressive. I suffered from depression since childhood, and I say this because my mother had told me that she'd ask the doctors why I slept soo much, and even the doctors said that the amount I slept was very unusual, but they couldn't figure out why. I was in my early 20s when I was finally officially diagnosed with major depression; the disease that ran through my father's side of the family. This all helped explain why I lead such an apathetic life. Always feeling tired, lethargic, and a lot of anger/sadness towards myself because I always felt like I kept letting everyone else down, because of my depression and the effects it had on me. I've spoken to shrinks but there was never anything they could tell me that I already didn't know. I've also been prescribed pretty much every pill out there that doctors use to treat depressives- some have worked, but after a little while I'd gain tolerance so the effects would wear off. Though, I am a pretty motivated person, so I did a lot of research on my own because the doctors didn't really help me all that much. 8 years later I got it figured out. Now, I just wanna make sure that everyone else knows what I know, so they can feel as I feel.
I made a little video explaining my theory and showing how to apply it safely.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=93947E6D578E0A84

Share the knowledge.
I haven't got sound on my pc so could you give us the low-down here?
 
U

UV4D

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I haven't got sound on my pc so could you give us the low-down here?
That's okay, I didn't forget about the people who have dial-up, or broken sound cards/no speakers. :)

Please click the link on my post again, and in the description of the videos, you'll see links underneath "My papers:" they'll lead you to the text-form of what the videos pretty much say.:]

Thanks for your effort in seeking what's new. It's very important, because who knows, it might be some news that could help you change your life in making it become a better one.
 
D

Dollit

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I looked up Bruce Charlton on PubMed and also on the Royal College of Psychiatrist web sites. Because scientific papers get published doesn't mean that they are good science just that they are science as judged by peer review. This following sentence was part of a long review of a book by Charlton called Psychiatry and the Human Condition.

Although Charlton has obviously read widely and been strongly influenced by the work of David Healy and Antonio Damasio, he is handicapped by his superficial understanding of the basic phenomena of psychiatric illness and his ignorance, or perhaps dismissal, of contemporary biological and psychological research.


I've read a lot of papers over the years on many subjects and it seems that Charlton has a theory that he is fitting the facts to. Without good empirical studies to back this up I personally don't think it's worth looking at. The question has to be asked why no one has chosen to fund a study if the theory is that good. I remain sceptical unless a large scale trial can show me proof because I want to protect my mental health.
 
Ashami

Ashami

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I do find the references to Vit D / UV interesting. Tell me UV4D, where are you at now? Would you say that you are recovered?
 
U

UV4D

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I do find the references to Vit D / UV interesting. Tell me UV4D, where are you at now? Would you say that you are recovered?
Most Defiantly, I am better than I ever was at the peak of the best of the drugs. I am about 6 months in and it shows no sign of getting any less potent. As long as I keep up my regiment, I am good. I did slightly relapse over Christmas because I was so busy, I forgot to go and get my UV. What tells me I am on the right track is how precisely you can feel yourself slip away from missing the pills or the treatment( treatment more so).

I have been working with a few other people and have shown similar results.
 
Ashami

Ashami

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Most Defiantly, I am better than I ever was at the peak of the best of the drugs. I am about 6 months in and it shows no sign of getting any less potent. As long as I keep up my regiment, I am good. I did slightly relapse over Christmas because I was so busy, I forgot to go and get my UV. What tells me I am on the right track is how precisely you can feel yourself slip away from missing the pills or the treatment( treatment more so).

I have been working with a few other people and have shown similar results.
I'm not saying this is the same for everyone who suffers with depression or any mental health related conditions but there is no doubt that in the summer months I improve. What I find interesting is the relationship between mental health and physical health. There is no doubt that my mental health has deteriorated more as my physical health has. Whereas ten years ago I would be unlucky if I had one bout of flu a year I have already had four or five bouts this year alone. In the last ten years I have had a baby and menopause and whereas once I was physically very fit, now I'm a disaster area. I have been advised to take Vit D / Calcium before (to guard against osteoporosis) and have not bothered. For the sake of one vitamin a day I think it's worth a try although I've no hope of getting near a UV lamp being at least 20 miles from the nearest town likely to have one.
 
U

UV4D

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I've read a lot of papers over the years on many subjects and it seems that Charlton has a theory that he is fitting the facts to. Without good empirical studies to back this up I personally don't think it's worth looking at.
I agree that without a major study that its simply educated guessing. However, I pursued it for a few good reasons.

1) It fit my flavor of depression better than any other explanation I have read.

2) Its on the edge of being totally harmless to try. if you have good mental health to protect, then you have no reason to try anything. But if your like me, the even slight chance for improvement, weighed against the risks of taking cod liver oil pills and going to the tanning salon for some *minimal* amounts of UV, the choice is a no brainer. Certainly a lot less risky than some of the heavier drugs I have been prescribed.

3) The current state of the art in depression research is still HIGHLY vague. They have a lot of studies showing that current drugs work reasonably effectively in MDD patients, but even those have had some fairly negative studies coming out showing they are a lot less effective that previously implied. To this day there is no accepted view as to what depression even is. Chemical imbalance is the explanation de jur, but that isn't really testable in living humans yet(you have to sample a chunk of brain tissue), so that is just a guess.

4) As I have discovered , the psychiatric community has a hard time accepting that it might not be a brain centric problem, since it essential takes depression right out of there league, and into more general medicine( immunology in this theories case). which wouldn't be so great for there funding. I am not alleging any great conspiracy or anything, just saying that there are pressures against studying this theory other than its not scientifically sound.


So I decided to run with it, and its worked quite well for me and a few others, so I decided that I would see if I could get a larger group to test it out.

I understand your natural skepticism, I too had a healthy amount, but the risks were so low, there was no reason not to pursue. I *welcome* criticism from anyone, since its the best form of peer review I can get being a amateur.

Thanks so much for your comment, dissenting views help me understand my own position better.

Share the knowledge:clap:
 
D

Dollit

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There is always risks involved when it comes to unproven theories purely because they are unproven.

I don't take any supplements because no matter how innocuous they can be on their own, any supplement taken in conjunction with the amount of medication I take is risky. I wouldn't go near a sun bed if I was paid a 7 figure sum, I've never been tanned even by the sun and never will be as I protect my skin at all costs.

My consultant loves to hear of theories like this and I'm sure he'll enjoy this - as will the GP I work occasionally with on an educational project. It will give us discussion material but not necessarily the kind that would help promote your theory.

The thing that worries me the most is that you admit to having no scientific background and yet you promote this so heavily. If it was worth pursuing don't you think a university would have taken it up as a research project by now?
 
U

UV4D

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I have been advised to take Vit D / Calcium before (to guard against osteoporosis) and have not bothered. For the sake of one vitamin a day I think it's worth a try although I've no hope of getting near a UV lamp being at least 20 miles from the nearest town likely to have one.
If you so choose, pls try the cod liver oil I recommend, since a lot of them are short on vit D. Other forms (the hard kind) are basically useless. As far as the UV goes, where to you live? We are in spring so regular sunshine should cut it at this time of year, in most places in the US. about 20 mins with average Caucasian skin tone , should max you out on self produced D( about 10k UI ). expose as much skin as possible. I would recommend 10 mins on your first try and work up, don't get burned :)

Another thing I would recommend is to check out your sleep, I believe that the Sickness behavior causes poor sleep which in tern causes the mental issues. So if something else is upsetting your sleep then you should look more closely at that. Do you dream a lot?

I also felt hopeless at one point, I beat my depression, so there is hope for everyone.
 
Ashami

Ashami

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If you so choose, pls try the cod liver oil I recommend, since a lot of them are short on vit D. Other forms (the hard kind) are basically useless. As far as the UV goes, where to you live? We are in spring so regular sunshine should cut it at this time of year, in most places in the US. about 20 mins with average Caucasian skin tone , should max you out on self produced D( about 10k UI ). expose as much skin as possible. I would recommend 10 mins on your first try and work up, don't get burned :)

Another thing I would recommend is to check out your sleep, I believe that the Sickness behavior causes poor sleep which in tern causes the mental issues. So if something else is upsetting your sleep then you should look more closely at that. Do you dream a lot?

I also felt hopeless at one point, I beat my depression, so there is hope for everyone.
Can u just tell me again what cod liver oil you recommend? Regards sunshine, hey this is the UK :LOL: No seriously I will make more effort to get out and catch some rays when we do get some. I'm lucky that my skin is very tolerant, so half hour will be no prob for me.

Sleep is a major problem for me. I am so tired I could easily sleep ten / twelve hours a night if I got the chance and have been like this for years. Until recently I couldnt remember any dreams, when I woke I just felt like I'd not been asleep. I have noticed that since I came off meds my dreams are back with a vengeance, very vibrant, busy and scary. My dreams are very much anxiety dreams full of confusion, missing people, steep cliffs, broken-down houses etc.

Hope, a word I like to hear.....
 
U

UV4D

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There is always risks involved when it comes to unproven theories purely because they are unproven.
Yes, but the long term affects of the treatment has been studied extensively in other contexts, so the risks are very low, and as I said before, far lower than most Rx'ed meds.

I wouldn't go near a sun bed if I was paid a 7 figure sum, I've never been tanned even by the sun and never will be as I protect my skin at all costs.
Why are you protecting it so dearly? Surely you believe as most mothers of the world, that getting some sun is good for you, completely aside of the theory under discussion. Given a choice between looking young and feeling young(energetic/optimistic), I know what I would choose in a heart beat. As well as the fact, that the doses I recommend are hardly tanning levels, My face and arms are the same color as when I started. It's just that the rest of my body now matches ;) So, we aren't talking George Hamilton levels by any means.

You might find this case interesting- Australia had a campaign to increase the usage of sunblock in the general population. It worked quite well and everyone started using sunblock, but soon after the level of birth defects went up, everyone freaked out, because they thought that sunblock was causing it. Eventually, they figured out that the sunblock was preventing the Vitamin D production, which in-turn, lead to birth defects, as well as a host of other complications. Here is a new report -> http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sunshine-deficiency-leads-to-vitamin-d-crisis/2007/12/08/1196813081579.html
Everything in moderation...

My consultant loves to hear of theories like this and I'm sure he'll enjoy this - as will the GP I work occasionally with on an educational project. It will give us discussion material but not necessarily the kind that would help promote your theory.
I welcome any discussion :clap:

The thing that worries me the most is that you admit to having no scientific background and yet you promote this so heavily. If it was worth pursuing don't you think a university would have taken it up as a research project by now?
The reason I am promoting this, is that I have yet to find any reason why it doesn't work. I am trying to get someone to take notice and either tell me "Yeah, we tested that, and it's wrong", or "We haven't tested it, but since it's been effective for you and so many others, I think we should!".

If I am right, it's a revolution in psychiatry. If I am wrong, I am still getting the anti-cancer and life-long benefits of Vitamin D, and it's no great loss. I am going to pursue this research until someone gives me a good reason to stop. Being quiet isn't going to help anyone.
 
U

UV4D

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Can u just tell me again what cod liver oil you recommend?
Here are the links to the two products I recommend:
http://www.nowfoods.com/?action=itemdetail&item_id=3184
OR
http://www.carlsonlabs.com/product_detail.phtml?prodid=00206&categid=0014

Take between two and four softgels, spread out over the day. No more than four, because that's the upper limit for daily Vitamin A. (I'm researching some lower Vitamin A options- heavy emphasis on the sun over the pills though, if you could get it ;))


Sleep is a major problem for me. I am so tired I could easily sleep ten / twelve hours a night if I got the chance and have been like this for years. Until recently I couldnt remember any dreams, when I woke I just felt like I'd not been asleep. I have noticed that since I came off meds my dreams are back with a vengeance, very vibrant, busy and scary. My dreams are very much anxiety dreams full of confusion, missing people, steep cliffs, broken-down houses etc.

Hope, a word I like to hear.....
Anything over 10 hours of sleep is a pretty good indicator that something is wrong with your sleep. Because you are sleeping that long, it probably means that you are not getting any quality sleep. The fact that you're having vivid dreams, indicates to me that you're not achieving deep/deeper sleep. As to why you're not getting deeper sleep would require more detailed study. I would start to look into it if I were you- there is a strong correlation between depression and poor sleep. There is a debate going on as to whether it is a side effect of depression or if it is the cause of depression(chicken or the egg problem). I tend to favor the latter. There can be many reasons~ from allergies, to diets, to the theory we have just discussed. If you're interested, I can help you. PM me your e-mail address if you're interested.
 
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D

Dollit

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My final say on this thread is that you have a theory and you are determined to make it fit the facts. Your self admitted lack of scientific background does show. No one would argue against the fact that Vitamin D is necessary to our well being but it is not a cure all and there are no proven effects in its use against depression - you don't seem to realise that you could be describing a coincidental effect, that you are using Vitamin D as a placebo.

As for why I protect my skin - haven't you heard that some people have skin diseases? You lack of personal knowledge of me arising and scientific knowledge specifically arising again.

And yes I will draw your theory to my consultant's attention but I doubt very much that he would be drawn into a debate with you, he's far too busy doing his job.

People will listen to you and they will listen to you because they are desperate for answers to questions that mainstream science admits that it can't provide answers for just yet. People who are desperate turn to anyone who seems to provide answers.

And since you are not supposed to take supplements of any kind whilst taking medication and certainly if you are considering taking an alternative therapy it is wise in the extreme to discuss these matters with a medically qualified person therefore your warning should actually say that anyone considering your method should discuss it with their GP first. But then if you had a scientific background you would have known that.
 
KP1

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I agree with Dollit people may be particularly vulnerable reading this thread and desperate to find a solution to their illnesses. We should be very careful what is promoted we can only give personal opinions on what has helped us.
 
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