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most personality disorders are not actual PDs such as Borderline PD, also PDs are overdiagnosed, other info

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forumuser23

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Jan 10, 2019
Messages
22
i have mentioned this elsewhere on many occasions and in different ways, as well as to my therapist ( which she agrees with pretty much everything i say and not because she is just trying to be nice but because i know what im talking about, and dont talk out of my ass ) which is that logically, though i'm not sure how much specific info i may be able to pinpoint, since most of what i know or experience happens to only come in random bits of info here and there, but most of what researchers or whatever have done to create the list of Personality disorders, have done so wrongly or unnecessarily for a lot of stuff. for example, the one PD that pops up a lot is borderline PD, and i can't believe how much people i've met both in person and online that have this condition and the experiences they gave of themselves and how their "personality disorder" affects them and repeatingly, i've seen red flags. what i mean by red flag is that it contradicts the very idea of what makes a personality disorder.

this is how the typical BPD person talks like, yeh...i overthink things, i really need to work on myself, or i've grown a lot and have faced my challenges, i'm beggining to heal, etc, these things are how typical people talk like, not someone with a personality disorder. a person with a personality disorder is a more primitive inferior being who is ALSO fundamentally different from other people in not only how they function but how they feel about things and see things, all of these borderline people are the opposite of this, they aren't any different than the typical person without a personality disorder. now of course, bpd is one example, but i've seen this with most of the other PDs as well. i told this to my therapist, it's not about changing someone or fixing someone with a PD, because the same concept would even apply to a "normal" or "typical person" or simply someone who doesn't have a PD. it's wrong trying to fix a person, yet, just because someone has a PD, then the person needs to change or fix themselves...., but then they don't look at the same thing they throw onto people. ( for example, the clifton strengths trait maximizer mentions this and this is also the trait i score in as my top 5, as one thing you don't people doing to you is trying to fix you ). also, my top 5 were maximizer, deliberateness, harmony, consistency and adaptibility ), though, i have my own criticism of why i feel that the results seem contradictory or conflicting, etc. anyways, here is the url of source for maximizer -

[Moderated]

and then there is of course overdiagnosing of PDs. there is one video on youtube that sort of hints this out, i can get the info for this if anyone is interested, but the guy was basically saying how clinicians or people jump the conclusion that someone has a PD, based off how the person is acting on the literal level, instead of looking at how this person life is like, how they are doing financially, work, school, education, how they cope, etc, all of which are hardly looked into thoroughly, and then i have stupid people on the forum tell me something simplistic, after to which i told them about my experiences with so many people in person of mental health groups who i didn't relate to and whom did not have PDs ( because i actually learned about how they function and why they are the way they are ), yet the forum guy tells me that just because the people didn't mention they had a PD, doesn't mean they didn't, trying to think that my mind may not be as open as it should be, not realizing how stupid he is himself.

and this was in the personality disorder forum too, where the guy may have had a PD himself, but he sure wasn't any different from the typical stupid simplistic people out there, and i realized that the other guys weren't too far from him. and what i was seeing wasn't any different from one forum to another. almost all the people i met were stereotypes of the same type of people i'd meet in person, telling me the same bullshit and not knowing jack shit of anything, and giving simplistic answers. another one from elsewhere accused me of seeing things in black and white, getting several likes in his post, while i had to just sit, putting up with his bullshit and other people who replied similar to him, agreeing with him, and not even getting any personal experience of his own to even answer my question ( happens more than half the time, or majority of people ), and even if i do get a response, it's like i say, very trivialized response and / or has little depth or personalized experience to it, and when you try to ask the person for more details, which i've done a million times, they hardly give any sort of information that would stand out or provide something more than the ordinary, but it wouldn't be logical to beat them on the head in trying to spill more of their guts out, because then all that happens most of the time is only provoking them, which then can trigger me to become verbally violent and say verbally assaulting things to them, because they end up just belittling me at the end ( and not giving any relevant input to the original discussion that could have been helpful ), but i'm not any different than i was when these traumas and abuse happened to me many years back, i've simply due to survival mechanisms have had to somehow subdue my natural self in a way that is a double edged sword or less harmful, partly from experience but also developmentally / biologically influenced as well..

the timorous schizotypal explains what i feel, it's sort of like you're a wolf in sheeps clothing and have to put a lot of effort to adapt or whatever, despite having such pity, opposition and dismay of others. i have to constantly neglect myself in a way for safety reasons, and this has occurred countless. it's like going to another planet and not being to rebel because you don't have any supporting you, and this is what it feels like almost everywhere i go, and why it hasn't been any different in person and online.

i remember one time one girl in a group tried to lump me up with someone she knew as being similar, in that liking to / or at least preferring to be alone or something, because she was hoping to get me to appreciate what she said, but her pigeonholing and simplistic emotional response didn't work on me of course, and i reacted saying, ok, so what or something along that line, and she had bit her lip at the time, and i wanted to just hurt her for trying to trivialize me and expect me to just be comforting by her comment, but of course, i always end up looking like the immature, childish, inexperienced one, and all the other people have to roll their eyes feeling that way about me. i wish i'd said something more sarcastic like, cool story? maybe you should invite him, if he really is like me, we could laugh at how stupid you are, or if not like me, i can laugh even more for you trying to put me together with some guy who isn't like me at all, not that he would care, but just to show how much of a shallow dumb bitch you are.

i don't remember what that girl's diagnosis was or if she mentioned or not, that was several years back when i attended a group that i seemingly should have not went to, but should or not, actually not true, because for me, these experiences helped me learn more about why im different or w.e ( tho not finding like minded people, so only seeing people i didn't relate to ), i did what i felt i needed to do and that was hoping i could find like minded people going to that mental health group and that was the only option at the time i could use, eventually one day of course, from the anger i had, depression and what not, i blow up after the last straw was felt when i got indirectly belittled in the group after the therapist was having a discussion on something and my adrenaline became extreme and i ripped all the papers around me violently and throw a chair that almost hit someone ( which i wasn't necessarily trying to throw at directly ), as everyone was trying to walk out of the room, and of course police showed up quickly and i just got escorted out casually and went home, as i told them, i dont feel good and i just want to go home, and thats exactly what i did.

but yeh, this thread was supposed to create a better understanding of not only Personality disorders but other stuff and provide better insight of what is what and why. i'm really hoping someone who feels the same exact way and same or similar experience can also pitch in and be of support or expand this thread for more qualitative information, being that, it's extremely rare to find anything like this, and google search algorithms or w.e, doesn't seem to help things as specific as this. a lot of forums are also dead, inactive or have very little postings, and even then, i don't relate to the people, topics or info that is posted.
 
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Nukelavee

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London, ON
I can't speak for others with BPD, but from myself - you know nothing about the topic, at all. At least, nothing that exists outside of your own headspace.

I'm sure people with BPD, or any PD, say those same kinda things. Because we've learned to downplay how we actually feel, or how we think, because otherwise, we can scare teh hell out of people.

What I see here is somebody who thinks their PD, or whatever, should make them special, you sound like you resent sharing the stage with other people. Your behaviour, and lack of control, isn't the standard for how people present.
 
R

ramboghettouk

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your the only one with the real thing i take it. your one of the few who have a therapist i'd agree
 
Summerof76

Summerof76

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Wow! I so want to pull the original post apart and insert some logic. Not sure I have the focus levels though. Your confabulation is immense...and coming from me, that's saying something!

The first thing that struck me about your post was your narcissism. If you're that knowledgeable about your condition, then you should know that your therapist is quite likely to agree with you, but offer alternative ways of thinking at the same time. The role of a therapist or counsellor is not to disagree with you, but to validate your feelings and then work on the dysfunctional thoughts and behaviours associated to them.

Forumuser23 said "this is how the typical BPD person talks like, yeh...i overthink things, i really need to work on myself, or i've grown a lot and have faced my challenges, i'm beggining to heal, etc, these things are how typical people talk like, not someone with a personality disorder. a person with a personality disorder is a more primitive inferior being who is ALSO fundamentally different from other people in not only how they function but how they feel about things and see things, all of these borderline people are the opposite of this, they aren't any different than the typical person without a personality disorder. now of course, bpd is one example, but i've seen this with most of the other PDs as well. i told this to my therapist, it's not about changing someone or fixing someone with a PD, because the same concept would even apply to a "normal" or "typical person" or simply someone who doesn't have a PD. it's wrong trying to fix a person, yet, just because someone has a PD, then the person needs to change or fix themselves...., but then they don't look at the same thing they throw onto people"


Firstly, have you done a comparison study on the linguistics of a control group and borderline P.D's? I'd be interested in the results, if you have. Speech patterns is an interest of mine.

Secondly, what's a 'normal' person? The only supposedly normal people I've met in my life are those that had secure childhoods- and those types are people are few and far between. Everyone else I've met, I've spotted poorly controlled ego defences, symptoms or characteristics of MH or PDs, saviour complex's, confidence issues, minor psychopathology (usually bosses, managers, business owners). And even those 'normal' people, I only perceive as normal, because they seem emotionally balanced in our times of contact, but I don't know them very well. They could well be suffering, but don't chose to advertise it.

Thirdly, where the heck did you get the notion that people with P.D's are primitive and inferior to others? If anything, the opposite is more likely to be true. Having a P.D in contrast to a M.H illness means that you can develop insight to your own behaviours- actually work with it's strengths and manage the disordered parts of your personality. However, it does take strategies, knowledge and years of hard work to do that.
And how do you measure intelligence? To say they are primitive and inferior, I assume you're talking about level of intelligence. This is where you show a great lack of knowledge. There's a number of different intelligences (Gardener theorised that there were 9 types of intelligence), so on what one would they be at a deficit?
Ever heard the saying 'Madness is next to genius'? Depending on the P.D there is often a strong desire to analyse and learn about the self in MH and PD's, which actually negates your theory. A being of a lower cognition cannot analyse the self; their own thoughts and behaviours.

Do you even know what a P.D is? Because from what you've written, it doesn't actually appear that you do. Briefly, a human's personality is formed by parenting and influential experiences in early childhood to teens. We are not born with a personality. A stable, secure childhood allows the child to develop a healthy personality; healthy identification and sense of self, social skills and behaviours, boundaries, ego defences, definitions of love and care, recognition and validation of their emotions.
If there are constant interruptions in that personality formation- abuse, emotional deprivation, neglect- it becomes disordered.

PD's can also be co-morbid and change over a person's lifespan. There is evidence out there to suggest that dysfunctional characteristics can lessen with age and education of the P.D.

"and then there is of course overdiagnosing of PDs."


Not sure this is true at all. If you'd have said M.H illness is over-diagnosed, I'd agree, but not P.D's.
I don't want to offend anyone with my next statement- it's not my intention- but it's a possibility that might happen. It's true that most people with P.D's are not aware that they have one- instead they seek treatment for mental health illnesses related to it, and when they are eventually diagnosed, do not have a solid realisation of how it has formed.
Some that are diagnosed will refute the diagnosis, because of the lifelong implications of it and further, because once the core cause of their P.D is realised, it can have a effect on the way they viewed their childhood and relationships with parents/primary caregivers. If they have 'fixed' that disordered relationship as an adult, it can be hard to attribute blame for the disorder on to someone else for things that happened in the past.

"there is one video on youtube that sort of hints this out, i can get the info for this if anyone is interested, but the guy was basically saying how clinicians or people jump the conclusion that someone has a PD, based off how the person is acting on the literal level, instead of looking at how this person life is like, how they are doing financially, work, school, education, how they cope, etc, all of which are hardly looked into thoroughly, and then i have stupid people on the forum tell me something simplistic, after to which i told them about my experiences with so many people in person of mental health groups who i didn't relate to and whom did not have PDs ( because i actually learned about how they function and why they are the way they are ), yet the forum guy tells me that just because the people didn't mention they had a PD, doesn't mean they didn't, trying to think that my mind may not be as open as it should be, not realizing how stupid he is himself."


So, you've based part of your opinion on the word of a guy on YouTube and then got angry when others had a different opinion! And are we supposed to take this as validation that you're more intelligent than everybody else out there?
Your Seer on YouTube is not correct and is probably only talking from his own experiences. I'm not sure many clinicians jump to the conclusion of a personality disorder- they're more likely to jump to the conclusion of a mental health disorder, seeing as those can be medicated and shoved out of the surgery more quickly. They generally only have time to look at the current symptoms and how they are impacting on every day life. Rarely, very rarely, do they delve backwards. Even most counsellors (which will be the first point of referral from a GP) do not know a lot about P.D's, unless they have done a specific module in their training.
P.D's have to be diagnosed through psychoanalysis- background information, childhood experiences (more specifically, ACE's) and persistent patterns of dysfunctional thoughts and behaviour.

Nevertheless, seeing as people put a lot out on mental health forums, I'd say it's possible to grasp an inkling that someone MAY have a personality disorder, but it's not something that can be diagnosed without actually speaking to someone, getting a grasp of how they speak (tone, etc) and the little subconscious behaviours that appear in interpersonal communication. They have to be taken in to account when looking at deviations from a healthy personality structure.

"the timorous schizotypal explains what i feel, it's sort of like you're a wolf in sheeps clothing and have to put a lot of effort to adapt or whatever, despite having such pity, opposition and dismay of others. i have to constantly neglect myself in a way for safety reasons, and this has occurred countless. it's like going to another planet and not being to rebel because you don't have any supporting you, and this is what it feels like almost everywhere i go, and why it hasn't been any different in person and online."

So you've identified your feelings and been able to characterise it as a Schizotypal P.D. Right, got that!
The next two paragraphs of your O.P are an angry defence mechanism and while I support your right to rant, it doesn't warrant a reply.

"but yeh, this thread was supposed to create a better understanding of not only Personality disorders but other stuff and provide better insight of what is what and why."

Yeah- that's not what you did. Back to the drawing board, hey!

"i'm really hoping someone who feels the same exact way and same or similar experience can also pitch in and be of support or expand this thread for more qualitative information, being that, it's extremely rare to find anything like this, and google search algorithms or w.e, doesn't seem to help things as specific as this. a lot of forums are also dead, inactive or have very little postings, and even then, i don't relate to the people, topics or info that is posted."

Not even sure what this is meant to mean. For someone who is a self-diagnosed genius, your ability to describe what you mean isn't fantastic. This barely makes sense (like a great deal of your post). What is 'extremely rare to find'? Rants like this? Pretty sure there are plenty around, if you look for them.

Anyway, hope whatever it is you're going through, you get help.
 
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Nukelavee

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Summer - Well done. That all needed to be said - and I would have been less diplomatic.
 
Summerof76

Summerof76

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Summer - Well done. That all needed to be said - and I would have been less diplomatic.

My superiority complex is alive and well today! Lol And it's not settling well with the angry energy I have!
 
F

forumuser23

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
22
Wow! I so want to pull the original post apart and insert some logic. Not sure I have the focus levels though. Your confabulation is immense...and coming from me, that's saying something!

The first thing that struck me about your post was your narcissism. If you're that knowledgeable about your condition, then you should know that your therapist is quite likely to agree with you, but offer alternative ways of thinking at the same time. The role of a therapist or counsellor is not to disagree with you, but to validate your feelings and then work on the dysfunctional thoughts and behaviours associated to them.

Forumuser23 said "this is how the typical BPD person talks like, yeh...i overthink things, i really need to work on myself, or i've grown a lot and have faced my challenges, i'm beggining to heal, etc, these things are how typical people talk like, not someone with a personality disorder. a person with a personality disorder is a more primitive inferior being who is ALSO fundamentally different from other people in not only how they function but how they feel about things and see things, all of these borderline people are the opposite of this, they aren't any different than the typical person without a personality disorder. now of course, bpd is one example, but i've seen this with most of the other PDs as well. i told this to my therapist, it's not about changing someone or fixing someone with a PD, because the same concept would even apply to a "normal" or "typical person" or simply someone who doesn't have a PD. it's wrong trying to fix a person, yet, just because someone has a PD, then the person needs to change or fix themselves...., but then they don't look at the same thing they throw onto people"

Firstly, have you done a comparison study on the linguistics of a control group and borderline P.D's? I'd be interested in the results, if you have. Speech patterns is an interest of mine.

Secondly, what's a 'normal' person? The only supposedly normal people I've met in my life are those that had secure childhoods- and those types are people are few and far between. Everyone else I've met, I've spotted poorly controlled ego defences, symptoms or characteristics of MH or PDs, saviour complex's, confidence issues, minor psychopathology (usually bosses, managers, business owners). And even those 'normal' people, I only perceive as normal, because they seem emotionally balanced in our times of contact, but I don't know them very well. They could well be suffering, but don't chose to advertise it.

Thirdly, where the heck did you get the notion that people with P.D's are primitive and inferior to others? If anything, the opposite is more likely to be true. Having a P.D in contrast to a M.H illness means that you can develop insight to your own behaviours- actually work with it's strengths and manage the disordered parts of your personality. However, it does take strategies, knowledge and years of hard work to do that.
And how do you measure intelligence? To say they are primitive and inferior, I assume you're talking about level of intelligence. This is where you show a great lack of knowledge. There's a number of different intelligences (Gardener theorised that there were 9 types of intelligence), so on what one would they be at a deficit?
Ever heard the saying 'Madness is next to genius'? Depending on the P.D there is often a strong desire to analyse and learn about the self in MH and PD's, which actually negates your theory. A being of a lower cognition cannot analyse the self; their own thoughts and behaviours.

Do you even know what a P.D is? Because from what you've written, it doesn't actually appear that you do. Briefly, a human's personality is formed by parenting and influential experiences in early childhood to teens. We are not born with a personality. A stable, secure childhood allows the child to develop a healthy personality; healthy identification and sense of self, social skills and behaviours, boundaries, ego defences, definitions of love and care, recognition and validation of their emotions.
If there are constant interruptions in that personality formation- abuse, emotional deprivation, neglect- it becomes disordered.

PD's can also be co-morbid and change over a person's lifespan. There is evidence out there to suggest that dysfunctional characteristics can lessen with age and education of the P.D.

"and then there is of course overdiagnosing of PDs."

Not sure this is true at all. If you'd have said M.H illness is over-diagnosed, I'd agree, but not P.D's.
I don't want to offend anyone with my next statement- it's not my intention- but it's a possibility that might happen. It's true that most people with P.D's are not aware that they have one- instead they seek treatment for mental health illnesses related to it, and when they are eventually diagnosed, do not have a solid realisation of how it has formed.
Some that are diagnosed will refute the diagnosis, because of the lifelong implications of it and further, because once the core cause of their P.D is realised, it can have a effect on the way they viewed their childhood and relationships with parents/primary caregivers. If they have 'fixed' that disordered relationship as an adult, it can be hard to attribute blame for the disorder on to someone else for things that happened in the past.

"there is one video on youtube that sort of hints this out, i can get the info for this if anyone is interested, but the guy was basically saying how clinicians or people jump the conclusion that someone has a PD, based off how the person is acting on the literal level, instead of looking at how this person life is like, how they are doing financially, work, school, education, how they cope, etc, all of which are hardly looked into thoroughly, and then i have stupid people on the forum tell me something simplistic, after to which i told them about my experiences with so many people in person of mental health groups who i didn't relate to and whom did not have PDs ( because i actually learned about how they function and why they are the way they are ), yet the forum guy tells me that just because the people didn't mention they had a PD, doesn't mean they didn't, trying to think that my mind may not be as open as it should be, not realizing how stupid he is himself."


So, you've based part of your opinion on the word of a guy on YouTube and then got angry when others had a different opinion! And are we supposed to take this as validation that you're more intelligent than everybody else out there?
Your Seer on YouTube is not correct and is probably only talking from his own experiences. I'm not sure many clinicians jump to the conclusion of a personality disorder- they're more likely to jump to the conclusion of a mental health disorder, seeing as those can be medicated and shoved out of the surgery more quickly. They generally only have time to look at the current symptoms and how they are impacting on every day life. Rarely, very rarely, do they delve backwards. Even most counsellors (which will be the first point of referral from a GP) do not know a lot about P.D's, unless they have done a specific module in their training.
P.D's have to be diagnosed through psychoanalysis- background information, childhood experiences (more specifically, ACE's) and persistent patterns of dysfunctional thoughts and behaviour.

Nevertheless, seeing as people put a lot out on mental health forums, I'd say it's possible to grasp an inkling that someone MAY have a personality disorder, but it's not something that can be diagnosed without actually speaking to someone, getting a grasp of how they speak (tone, etc) and the little subconscious behaviours that appear in interpersonal communication. They have to be taken in to account when looking at deviations from a healthy personality structure.

"the timorous schizotypal explains what i feel, it's sort of like you're a wolf in sheeps clothing and have to put a lot of effort to adapt or whatever, despite having such pity, opposition and dismay of others. i have to constantly neglect myself in a way for safety reasons, and this has occurred countless. it's like going to another planet and not being to rebel because you don't have any supporting you, and this is what it feels like almost everywhere i go, and why it hasn't been any different in person and online."

So you've identified your feelings and been able to characterise it as a Schizotypal P.D. Right, got that!
The next two paragraphs of your O.P are an angry defence mechanism and while I support your right to rant, it doesn't warrant a reply.

"but yeh, this thread was supposed to create a better understanding of not only Personality disorders but other stuff and provide better insight of what is what and why."

Yeah- that's not what you did. Back to the drawing board, hey!

"i'm really hoping someone who feels the same exact way and same or similar experience can also pitch in and be of support or expand this thread for more qualitative information, being that, it's extremely rare to find anything like this, and google search algorithms or w.e, doesn't seem to help things as specific as this. a lot of forums are also dead, inactive or have very little postings, and even then, i don't relate to the people, topics or info that is posted."

Not even sure what this is meant to mean. For someone who is a self-diagnosed genius, your ability to describe what you mean isn't fantastic. This barely makes sense (like a great deal of your post). What is 'extremely rare to find'? Rants like this? Pretty sure there are plenty around, if you look for them.

Anyway, hope whatever it is you're going through, you get help.
ok summer, let's see if i can review / answer to all the things you replied or at least most of them so far, to the first paragraph, so you comment on my narcissism, ( me smirking, yeh, so what? i already know i relate to narcissism ), now as to whether or not what a therapist should do or shouldn't in what's therapeutically right isn't the point and i don't see why you care to even bring up such trivial matter that's already painfully obvious to me, but ok, it's what a "typical person" would do and you've done exactly that, if i want to be specific with "typical person", it would be hard to explain without providing some kind of long qualitative definition, but perhaps typical person may not be the correct term here, the right mind though would understand what i am saying. anyways, if the therapist or whomever it i'm talking to is not someone i like or can offer some sort of middle ground with or "reasonableness", then i'll move on to someone else, as i've done many times. the goal isn't about fixing me, but your post suggests that the therapist job is always to help with that someone who has fault, and in this case, the client always has to be one being "fixed" in a way, because at this point, its not about what makes logical sense, it's about assuming that something needs fixing or whatever because it's being impaired in some way.

so it seems like you didn't notice the part i mentioned on the clifton strengths, as that basically points to who i am in a way, with the maximizer trait, the last think you'd wan't is someone trying to fix you, or i'll add, trying to persuade you to do something that you don't wan't to or being unreasonable, which what i noticed from you, far from being that type.

on the part on normal people or whatever, you misunderstood what i meant by "normal" or "Typical" people, it's not that the things you're saying aren't partially true, they are PARTIALLY true in that a lot of people may not have the best circumstances growing up and / or imperfections in personality, experiences and what not, but i get that, aware of it and quite frankly, it's doesn't make a difference whether someone tells me this or not, I've heard it and the types of things you say a million times by others, so all you've done is provided unnecessary information which if anything can be detrimental and harmful to someone.

what you said on intelligence and PD paragraphs are very simplistic, obvious and things that i already know, yet you provide such a general response to what you presume as me having no idea on personality disorders or intelligence / IQ. but if you did wan't a quality response, i'll tell you this, i know that with IQ, at least for IQ result when specifically addressed in the average IQ range is a problem, because two things, one, in the average category is very broad ranging from around 85 which is usually someone who's quality of life and overall functioning isn't typical so harmonic to someone around 110 i think, which is drastically different, and yes, i already know that you'd find something and say we'll, people have different traits and talents and strengths / weakness, i'm aware of that ( sarcastically rolling my eyes ), but at the end, the person who's IQ is around lets say 105-110 with relatively same circumstances and upbringing as the person with a IQ of around 90 is generally gonna have it either easier and / or higher quality of life. it's difficult to provide such great detail and factors, because this goes to my calculated thought communication that assumes that the other is already factoring in things that i already have factored in as well, which is why it's senseless to point out something like, the whole bell curve in the IQ, which i am aware of, but that still doesn't change that my point is already factoring that or at least in the makings.

the second issue with IQ results is that it doesn't factor in how much effort one had to use in order to "achieve" whatever results they had gotten and it doesn't mean that just because they score "functional enough" in one category, that they excel or do well in it or any other area for the matter, however, i brought up the average IQ factor because this especially plays a huge factor with actual quality of life and functioning and how much effort one used to achieve the average IQ result, where as this issues becomes LESSER of a problem, with higher average / above average IQ and higher because there tends to be more qualitative differences at higher levels, except in some cases in certain people with extreme variations in traits such as those with aspergers which i am already aware and the whole bell curve point already explains that. so when you insult me as that i see myself as a self diagnosed genius, this doesn't help in any way, am i supposed to confuse things that i say as not making logical sense such as in guilt, there you go, i gave you an example of what those with schizotypal personality disorder go through, which is people like you indirectly / or non deliberately ( i'm assuming ) making the person feel as if they are wrong and should surrender themselves because someone else like you, was good at making them feel like they are wrong or seeing things or communicating things in a wrong or inaccurate manner.

i see this happen all the time, and it's very sad, because the people who happen to have this acquired knowledge and experience who also function like me and feel the same way, are in a relatively low minority and especially so if they ( what apparent to you or at least most "typical" or people in general ) may not illustrate or explain what they know as so fantastic as you depict.

there's one last thing i'd like to point out and wrap up this is that there really is a objective way to understand why you or others may disagree on my points or not "Relate" or "Get it", even though a lot of mental health specialists or testings will say there isn't and that a lot of tests or things can be too subjective or w.e, it's because they are interpreting and testing it / accessing things in the wrong way. the caveat to this was that i was gonna ask you Summerof76, what your MBTI type is or any other relevant information, because why we may not get along or whatever has very much, not always, but very much to do with MBTI type and / or other variables combined, so i was hoping i could get your MBTI type at least.
 
midnightphoenix

midnightphoenix

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Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
12,525
Location
Tigger and Willow's house UK
just cause someone on youtube says something doesnt make it true.

for example, i could make a video about cats and dogs being the same animal - wouldnt make it true

or a video on youtube saying bipolar disorder and sckitzophrenia (idk spelling) being the same disorder, doesnt make it true

or depression and anxiety being the same thing, doesnt make it true

i admit that i do have trouble getting my head around borderline personality disorder - personality is something that cannot be changed, but yet people can "recover" from borderline personality disorder????????
 
R

ramboghettouk

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Founding Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
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15,771
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london
some people take diagnosis very seriously indeed had one psychiatrist say get 7 psychiatrists get 7 different diagnoseses. i'm not questioning my diagnosis need it for the benefits and the last time i was rediagnosed corresponded with some nasty harrassment from problem families on this estate, i still remember enfield social services saying we are in possession of a psychiatrists letter saying he isn't a priority on mental health grounds
 
N

Nukelavee

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Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
269
Location
London, ON
just cause someone on youtube says something doesnt make it true.

for example, i could make a video about cats and dogs being the same animal - wouldnt make it true

or a video on youtube saying bipolar disorder and sckitzophrenia (idk spelling) being the same disorder, doesnt make it true

or depression and anxiety being the same thing, doesnt make it true

i admit that i do have trouble getting my head around borderline personality disorder - personality is something that cannot be changed, but yet people can "recover" from borderline personality disorder????????
"recover" in the sense of "learning to cope and control yourself better". Recover in the sense that you aren't constantly totally disregulated.

Nothing forumuser 23 said makes any sense at all.
 
Summerof76

Summerof76

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Messages
115
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Wales, UK
ok summer, let's see if i can review / answer to all the things you replied or at least most of them so far, to the first paragraph, so you comment on my narcissism, ( me smirking, yeh, so what? i already know i relate to narcissism ), now as to whether or not what a therapist should do or shouldn't in what's therapeutically right isn't the point and i don't see why you care to even bring up such trivial matter that's already painfully obvious to me, but ok, it's what a "typical person" would do and you've done exactly that, if i want to be specific with "typical person", it would be hard to explain without providing some kind of long qualitative definition, but perhaps typical person may not be the correct term here, the right mind though would understand what i am saying. anyways, if the therapist or whomever it i'm talking to is not someone i like or can offer some sort of middle ground with or "reasonableness", then i'll move on to someone else, as i've done many times. the goal isn't about fixing me, but your post suggests that the therapist job is always to help with that someone who has fault, and in this case, the client always has to be one being "fixed" in a way, because at this point, its not about what makes logical sense, it's about assuming that something needs fixing or whatever because it's being impaired in some way.

so it seems like you didn't notice the part i mentioned on the clifton strengths, as that basically points to who i am in a way, with the maximizer trait, the last think you'd wan't is someone trying to fix you, or i'll add, trying to persuade you to do something that you don't wan't to or being unreasonable, which what i noticed from you, far from being that type.

on the part on normal people or whatever, you misunderstood what i meant by "normal" or "Typical" people, it's not that the things you're saying aren't partially true, they are PARTIALLY true in that a lot of people may not have the best circumstances growing up and / or imperfections in personality, experiences and what not, but i get that, aware of it and quite frankly, it's doesn't make a difference whether someone tells me this or not, I've heard it and the types of things you say a million times by others, so all you've done is provided unnecessary information which if anything can be detrimental and harmful to someone.

what you said on intelligence and PD paragraphs are very simplistic, obvious and things that i already know, yet you provide such a general response to what you presume as me having no idea on personality disorders or intelligence / IQ. but if you did wan't a quality response, i'll tell you this, i know that with IQ, at least for IQ result when specifically addressed in the average IQ range is a problem, because two things, one, in the average category is very broad ranging from around 85 which is usually someone who's quality of life and overall functioning isn't typical so harmonic to someone around 110 i think, which is drastically different, and yes, i already know that you'd find something and say we'll, people have different traits and talents and strengths / weakness, i'm aware of that ( sarcastically rolling my eyes ), but at the end, the person who's IQ is around lets say 105-110 with relatively same circumstances and upbringing as the person with a IQ of around 90 is generally gonna have it either easier and / or higher quality of life. it's difficult to provide such great detail and factors, because this goes to my calculated thought communication that assumes that the other is already factoring in things that i already have factored in as well, which is why it's senseless to point out something like, the whole bell curve in the IQ, which i am aware of, but that still doesn't change that my point is already factoring that or at least in the makings.

the second issue with IQ results is that it doesn't factor in how much effort one had to use in order to "achieve" whatever results they had gotten and it doesn't mean that just because they score "functional enough" in one category, that they excel or do well in it or any other area for the matter, however, i brought up the average IQ factor because this especially plays a huge factor with actual quality of life and functioning and how much effort one used to achieve the average IQ result, where as this issues becomes LESSER of a problem, with higher average / above average IQ and higher because there tends to be more qualitative differences at higher levels, except in some cases in certain people with extreme variations in traits such as those with aspergers which i am already aware and the whole bell curve point already explains that. so when you insult me as that i see myself as a self diagnosed genius, this doesn't help in any way, am i supposed to confuse things that i say as not making logical sense such as in guilt, there you go, i gave you an example of what those with schizotypal personality disorder go through, which is people like you indirectly / or non deliberately ( i'm assuming ) making the person feel as if they are wrong and should surrender themselves because someone else like you, was good at making them feel like they are wrong or seeing things or communicating things in a wrong or inaccurate manner.

i see this happen all the time, and it's very sad, because the people who happen to have this acquired knowledge and experience who also function like me and feel the same way, are in a relatively low minority and especially so if they ( what apparent to you or at least most "typical" or people in general ) may not illustrate or explain what they know as so fantastic as you depict.

there's one last thing i'd like to point out and wrap up this is that there really is a objective way to understand why you or others may disagree on my points or not "Relate" or "Get it", even though a lot of mental health specialists or testings will say there isn't and that a lot of tests or things can be too subjective or w.e, it's because they are interpreting and testing it / accessing things in the wrong way. the caveat to this was that i was gonna ask you Summerof76, what your MBTI type is or any other relevant information, because why we may not get along or whatever has very much, not always, but very much to do with MBTI type and / or other variables combined, so i was hoping i could get your MBTI type at least.
Forum
ok summer, let's see if i can review / answer to all the things you replied or at least most of them so far, to the first paragraph, so you comment on my narcissism, ( me smirking, yeh, so what? i already know i relate to narcissism ), now as to whether or not what a therapist should do or shouldn't in what's therapeutically right isn't the point and i don't see why you care to even bring up such trivial matter that's already painfully obvious to me, but ok, it's what a "typical person" would do and you've done exactly that, if i want to be specific with "typical person", it would be hard to explain without providing some kind of long qualitative definition, but perhaps typical person may not be the correct term here, the right mind though would understand what i am saying. anyways, if the therapist or whomever it i'm talking to is not someone i like or can offer some sort of middle ground with or "reasonableness", then i'll move on to someone else, as i've done many times. the goal isn't about fixing me, but your post suggests that the therapist job is always to help with that someone who has fault, and in this case, the client always has to be one being "fixed" in a way, because at this point, its not about what makes logical sense, it's about assuming that something needs fixing or whatever because it's being impaired in some way.

so it seems like you didn't notice the part i mentioned on the clifton strengths, as that basically points to who i am in a way, with the maximizer trait, the last think you'd wan't is someone trying to fix you, or i'll add, trying to persuade you to do something that you don't wan't to or being unreasonable, which what i noticed from you, far from being that type.

on the part on normal people or whatever, you misunderstood what i meant by "normal" or "Typical" people, it's not that the things you're saying aren't partially true, they are PARTIALLY true in that a lot of people may not have the best circumstances growing up and / or imperfections in personality, experiences and what not, but i get that, aware of it and quite frankly, it's doesn't make a difference whether someone tells me this or not, I've heard it and the types of things you say a million times by others, so all you've done is provided unnecessary information which if anything can be detrimental and harmful to someone.

what you said on intelligence and PD paragraphs are very simplistic, obvious and things that i already know, yet you provide such a general response to what you presume as me having no idea on personality disorders or intelligence / IQ. but if you did wan't a quality response, i'll tell you this, i know that with IQ, at least for IQ result when specifically addressed in the average IQ range is a problem, because two things, one, in the average category is very broad ranging from around 85 which is usually someone who's quality of life and overall functioning isn't typical so harmonic to someone around 110 i think, which is drastically different, and yes, i already know that you'd find something and say we'll, people have different traits and talents and strengths / weakness, i'm aware of that ( sarcastically rolling my eyes ), but at the end, the person who's IQ is around lets say 105-110 with relatively same circumstances and upbringing as the person with a IQ of around 90 is generally gonna have it either easier and / or higher quality of life. it's difficult to provide such great detail and factors, because this goes to my calculated thought communication that assumes that the other is already factoring in things that i already have factored in as well, which is why it's senseless to point out something like, the whole bell curve in the IQ, which i am aware of, but that still doesn't change that my point is already factoring that or at least in the makings.

the second issue with IQ results is that it doesn't factor in how much effort one had to use in order to "achieve" whatever results they had gotten and it doesn't mean that just because they score "functional enough" in one category, that they excel or do well in it or any other area for the matter, however, i brought up the average IQ factor because this especially plays a huge factor with actual quality of life and functioning and how much effort one used to achieve the average IQ result, where as this issues becomes LESSER of a problem, with higher average / above average IQ and higher because there tends to be more qualitative differences at higher levels, except in some cases in certain people with extreme variations in traits such as those with aspergers which i am already aware and the whole bell curve point already explains that. so when you insult me as that i see myself as a self diagnosed genius, this doesn't help in any way, am i supposed to confuse things that i say as not making logical sense such as in guilt, there you go, i gave you an example of what those with schizotypal personality disorder go through, which is people like you indirectly / or non deliberately ( i'm assuming ) making the person feel as if they are wrong and should surrender themselves because someone else like you, was good at making them feel like they are wrong or seeing things or communicating things in a wrong or inaccurate manner.

i see this happen all the time, and it's very sad, because the people who happen to have this acquired knowledge and experience who also function like me and feel the same way, are in a relatively low minority and especially so if they ( what apparent to you or at least most "typical" or people in general ) may not illustrate or explain what they know as so fantastic as you depict.

there's one last thing i'd like to point out and wrap up this is that there really is a objective way to understand why you or others may disagree on my points or not "Relate" or "Get it", even though a lot of mental health specialists or testings will say there isn't and that a lot of tests or things can be too subjective or w.e, it's because they are interpreting and testing it / accessing things in the wrong way. the caveat to this was that i was gonna ask you Summerof76, what your MBTI type is or any other relevant information, because why we may not get along or whatever has very much, not always, but very much to do with MBTI type and / or other variables combined, so i was hoping i could get your MBTI type at least.
Forumuser23- I really don't want you to think I'm ignoring this. I will absolutely give you a long, equally rambling answer when I have enough quality time to go through this properly. At present, I'm in a lot of pain, have had around 6 hours sleep in three days and haven't eaten properly in two. I also still have two full days at work to battle through.
I did read through it though and have every intention of answering/debating/challenging (however you want to perceive it!), as soon as I have the focus levels.

Until then...…

(BTW, a quick one- have you been assessed for Autism/Aspergers, by any chance?)
 
E

EstherRose94

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Joined
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Messages
2,407
Location
USA
Forumuser are you trying to say like that a personality disorder could arguably just be a different but not necessarily disordered personality? I think that philosophically you have some grounds for arguing that. I think practically it’s a little harder as people with PDs don’t always function effectively. It doesn’t make them wrong, it just means whatever behaviors and thought patterns they’re having aren’t really working for them and that learning more effective ones is a good goal to have. That could be seen as fixing someone who isn’t broken or as helping someone learn to function better.
 
Summerof76

Summerof76

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Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
115
Location
Wales, UK
Forumuser are you trying to say like that a personality disorder could arguably just be a different but not necessarily disordered personality? I think that philosophically you have some grounds for arguing that. I think practically it’s a little harder as people with PDs don’t always function effectively. It doesn’t make them wrong, it just means whatever behaviors and thought patterns they’re having aren’t really working for them and that learning more effective ones is a good goal to have. That could be seen as fixing someone who isn’t broken or as helping someone learn to function better.

I really love this answer!
Kudo, Esther Rose- Kudos.
 
midnightphoenix

midnightphoenix

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Messages
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Location
Tigger and Willow's house UK
Forum


Forumuser23- I really don't want you to think I'm ignoring this. I will absolutely give you a long, equally rambling answer when I have enough quality time to go through this properly. At present, I'm in a lot of pain, have had around 6 hours sleep in three days and haven't eaten properly in two. I also still have two full days at work to battle through.
I did read through it though and have every intention of answering/debating/challenging (however you want to perceive it!), as soon as I have the focus levels.

Until then...…

(BTW, a quick one- have you been assessed for Autism/Aspergers, by any chance?)
i know this wasnt aimed at me, just wanted to say i hope you feel better soon Summer :hug:
 
F

forumuser23

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
22
Forum


Forumuser23- I really don't want you to think I'm ignoring this. I will absolutely give you a long, equally rambling answer when I have enough quality time to go through this properly. At present, I'm in a lot of pain, have had around 6 hours sleep in three days and haven't eaten properly in two. I also still have two full days at work to battle through.
I did read through it though and have every intention of answering/debating/challenging (however you want to perceive it!), as soon as I have the focus levels.

Until then...…

(BTW, a quick one- have you been assessed for Autism/Aspergers, by any chance?)
i have not been assessed for autism / aspergers, at least not any specific psychological test, and even then, my diagnosis of schizotypal personality disorder would explain if there is a confusion of what's what ( at least, there hasn't really been much of anything else that's similar ), although i have mentioned elsewhere about the possibility of Aspergers, one time in particular was the first psychologist many years back, he disagreed, he was the first diagnosed who me with schizotypal personality disorder and primary diagnosis of major depression, he administered me the MMPI-2 and he was also the one who did the weschler IQ test which my results came out as "average", as well as a ADHD specific test because i always though that "ADHD" was the culprit to my problems when i saw the very first psychologist a few years before that right after high school which was when i started seeking mental health services, however, from the amount of research i've done, Russsell Barkley's in particular, i learned that at least for ADHD, that what i think i had wasn't actually the same thing, and that the problems was much more complex and qualitatively different, being that ADHD itself causes quantitative impairements, unless there's commorbidity, such as with the SCT diagnosis he mentioned, which i do relate to, however, because of the unclear research and / or limited variables, it's unclear whether "SCT" is really part of my problem or if it can be explained by something else.

the ADHD didn't show significant enough impairements, and even then, the attentional problems would be attributed to StPD, not ADHD. the problem being perceptual / more biological issue in different brain areas / different brain chemistry, where as with ADHD, it's what research shows as a motor problem or having to do more with the front part of the brain, though ironically, i have another theory on this, because i did suffer a small bang in the head by a door slam when i was younger, and i always thought it had some kind of effect on my development such as narrowing of the forehead because the skull not growing properly and thus causing some impairments in executive functioning which relates to ADHD. the best way i can put it as that i have SCT, ADHD, schizotypal PD and major depressive all combined, but not only ADHD, and the ADHD may be an acquired case, it's unclear. what i do remember is that is that i wasn't ever disruptive in classes or aggressive to to others like a typical ADHD person would be, but i did have trouble keeping myself engaged in lectures, listening, following through things, understanding things, and a lot of stuff that they say on SCT, such as filtering "important" from "unimportant" information and i just felt off and uncomfortable. case in point, my problems growing up were much more qualitative in terms of who i was as a person, rather than what happened to me ( trauma ), and to me, this is what makes a true personality disorder, but with all the labeling, maybe some day some one can provide a well respected term that would explain how much of the quality of life that people like me have to suffer from growing up for just being the way they are.

i've done the MMPI-2 a few times, and the most recent diagnosis remains consistent which is primarily major depressive disorder and secondary diagnosis of schizotypal personality disorder. the reason why i have a problem with seeing myself fit into aspergers / autism, is that for one, i do not relate to any of the people who have it and do not like any of them, and two, no one can tell me / differientiate whether the primitive functioning i have and "down to earthness" i have, has to do with some kind of mental illness or syndrome and / or if it's part of my personality, because if it's personality, that only proves my theory as valid that there ARE certain subtypes or combination of invididuals that are inferior, because biologically / through nature are like that. and also points where i was heading onto the PD theory i was saying in my title. for example, when i say that BPD is not a true PD, i'm not saying that it's not a disorder, but that it shouldn't belong to what a personality disorder definition should be, because for me, a personality disorder is not something created or caused by trauma, etc, because this would then suggest that these traits or whatever this person behaves has to always be caused by something you can point a finger on, which i'm saying it's not and my experience has shown that.
 
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