More Resources for 'Schizophrenia' Recovery.

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Apotheosis

Guest
#21
If a patient has repeated breakdowns when stopping their prescribed medication it indicates that they have the condition on a long term basis.
Or that they are suffering withdrawal effects & that the underlying emotional issues are not being addressed.

There is a great deal of research at present with brain scans which are able to identify which part of the brain is affected
Err? No there isn't!

Perhaps the incidence of schizophrenia appears to be higher in the western world than in the pre-indurial contries is that their social expectations are different.
If 'Schizophrenia' is to do primarily to do with social-economic/psychological factors - then it isn't primarily biological in cause; is it?
 
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Robbert

Guest
#22
If a patient has repeated breakdowns when stopping their prescribed medication it indicates that they have the condition on a long term basis.
If you take any (most) drugs on a long term basis, then changes are going to occur in the brain that accommodate for that drug. Remove the drug, and you have a brain that has adapted to require something that it is not getting. Hence, withdrawal and a return of the original symptoms are likely to occur. Breakdowns after stopping a medication abruptly are a weak argument IMO for medicating someone indefinitely.
 
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maudikie

Guest
#24
I appreciate your comments, but if the patient has a satisfying life which fits like a piece of jig-saw, as do those without the condition, is it not beter for them to continue to take the medication long-term, than go without it and return to an acute stage of the illness? Thereafter having to repeat all the acute suffering they have gone through before?
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
#25
I appreciate your comments, but if the patient has a satisfying life which fits like a piece of jig-saw, as do those without the condition, is it not beter for them to continue to take the medication long-term, than go without it and return to an acute stage of the illness? Thereafter having to repeat all the acute suffering they have gone through before?
I take your point. However - People without this condition have satisfying lives? A 'Patient' on psychiatric drugs always has a satisfying life?

Simply - people can & do recover & heal from these things; often medication free. Not all the time; & not everyone; but there are those that do. It would be more if there was more choice & more humane services; if there was more in the way of genuine support, help, compassion & therapeutic care for people. i.e. - Proper psychological & social support. It is a social & moral injustice that a lot of people don't get that help. The system & society is very wrong, & deeply flawed in the way it both treats & perceives people with these 'conditions'.

I don't rule out medication as a tool, & as part of a comprehensive approach; if used wisely. MH conditions are complex & involve multiple factors.

I personally maintain a low dose of psychiatric drug; that I make no secret of. The information presented in the Links in this thread are for anyone that may find such sources a help in their own lives & recovery in dealing with these issues. It is information that has helped me to heal, grow, recover, have hope & help towards a fuller life & more independent living. Can't be such a bad thing can it?
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
#26
Bit of a long read - but pertinent to the thread - (How does this square with you Maudikie?)

Psychosis or spiritual experience?

SOURCE - http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/psychosisspiritualexp/

Mary in SC who wrote this wonderful blog post on healing a psychosis in her youth with the help of Carl Jung’s and Joseph Campbell’s writings, has shared another piece that she wrote for a yahoo group that discusses the intersection of psychosis and spirituality. Mary has a doctorate in psychology as well as having personal experience in such healing.

The below question was asked in the yahoo group:

What is the link between psychosis and spirituality? One or two people have spoken of being admitted to a psych unit and of being relieved to be there. In what way was this a spiritual experience? I can think of a number of ways to describe this , but “spiritual”? I can see that one might see psychosis as a form of altered consciousness or heightened awareness- although I’m not sure of what- but how does one square this with so much of the trauma associated with florid psychotic features?


Mary’s response:

You have asked the $64 question indeed. Congratulations for having the courage to do it! Many people I think follow the converging paths of psychosis and spirituality up to where they both disappear in the clouds, but never quite allow their thoughts to go all the way up. Thus the question remains for the most part not only unanswered, but unasked.

We might start with the idea that spirituality really has two aspects. One aspect is that of the faithful who believe in the literal meaning of their religion, practice its rituals, and revere its god/gods, icons and traditions. The other aspect is the esoteric or “hidden” aspect realized by a select few who have the essential, primordial and universal experience that underlies all religions; that one transcendent Reality underlies existence itself, and the experience of one’s identity with it can mark the beginning of a more conscious and compassionate way of life. This experience, it is said, underlies all religions in all cultures throughout history.

It is with this second aspect, of course, that the question of a link between psychosis and spirituality arises. Philosopher Ken Wilber puts the problem like this:

“Are the mystics and sages insane? Because they all tell variationson the same story, don’t they? The story of awakening one morning and discovering you are one with the All, in a timeless and eternal and infinite fashion. Yes, maybe they are crazy, these divine fools. Maybe they are mumbling idiots in the face of the Abyss. Maybe they need a nice, understanding therapist. Yes, I’m sure that would help. But then, I wonder. Maybe the evolutionary sequence really is from matter to body to mind to soul to spirit, each transcending and including, each with a greater depth and greater consciousness and wider embrace. And in the highest reaches of evolution, maybe, just maybe, an individual’s consciousness does indeed touch infinity-a total embrace of the entire Kosmos-a Kosmic consciousness that is Spirit awakened to its own true nature. It’s at least plausible. And tell me: is that story, sung by mystics and sages the world over, any crazier than the scientific materialism story, which is that the entire sequence is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying absolutely nothing? Listen very carefully: just which of those two stories actually sounds totally insane?” – Ken Wilber, A Brief History of Everything, 42-3


This still doesn’t answer your question about the trauma so often associated with psychosis. But if you look at the lives and carefully read the words of great mystics — for example St. John of the Cross, Simone Weil, Mother Teresa, Gopi Krishna — you will find trauma and suffering aplenty. I think it’s our prettified view of spirituality, rather than the real thing, that is responsible for the notion that altered consciousness and heightened awareness are always lovely and pleasurable experiences. In fact, they can be quite like the experiences your patients have.

A great deal depends on the experiencer and what resources he/she brings to the experience. When I had my own experience, I had the great good fortune of having recently read a book by C.G. Jung. He described precisely what I was going through, and said it was a necessary prelude to Individuation, or becoming a complete person aware of both the conscious and unconscious aspects of one’s personality. This gave me the insight to endure the terrifying process without coming under the care of a psychiatrist — and getting myself diagnosed as psychotic or schizophrenic. Others are not so fortunate. They interpret their experiences in the ways you are familiar with, and often end up severely traumatized by “treatment” or permanently medicated, or both. And yet both they and I had the same basic experience.

But even after being “treated” in such a fashion, many people do persist in trying to understand the real meaning of their experience and ultimately find it beneficial, again blurring the distinction between spirituality and psychosis. Here are some anonymous comments found on the internet, for example:

“Now after the years I can only say that my psychoses triggered a spiritual development. Through the years I developed with meditation through a severe kundalini experience from pre-rational to post-rational stages (not only states) of consciousness. So I’m actually glad I’ve had those psychotic breaks because after all they have been really transformative.”


and

“I can only say that my personal experience with psychosis and manic depression brought me on a spiritual path. I had the feeling to have had experienced an altered state (which I couldn’t explain that way because I didn’t know it was possible to have natural altered states, except with psychedelic drugs, for instance).”


and

“Psychosis can really be a trigger for later spiritual development if you’re able to strengthen your ego boundaries, and work an building a strong and healthy personality. After all I’m still on a low dose of antipsychotic drugs just for safety reasons, but I’m doing better than ever before and am studying again as a graduate student.”


In his book Anatomy of an Illness: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America (2010), Robert Whitaker describes World Health Organization studies comparing rates of recovery in “developed” countries (US and Europe) vs. “undeveloped” countries (India, Nigeria and Colombia). In the “undeveloped” countries, he said, “nearly two-thirds of the patients had good outcomes, and slightly more than one-third had become chronically ill. In the rich countries, only 37 percent of the patients had good outcomes, and 59 percent became chronically ill. . . . in Agra, India, where patients arguably fared the best, only 3 percent of the patients were kept on an antipsychotic. Medication usage was highest in Moscow, and that city had the highest percent of patients who were constantly ill. In this cross-cultural study, the best outcomes were clearly associated with low medication use.”

So perhaps there are better ways to deal with psychosis than medicating it out of existence. I think many patients know this, but most of their professional caretakers are still stuck in their medical model of “brain disease,” which is after all so much easier and more profitable than doing real therapy. The best solution for the foreseeable future may be for “patients” to learn to keep their mouths shut and take over their own treatment.

For stories of healing through a psychotic process see here.
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
#27
Someone wrote this wonderful & insightful reply to this article; on another forum -

" Theres a spiritual idea that life is like a school, we learn and experience it in order to develop and grow in many ways, including spiritually. Although everything could be thought of as spiritual, for its value to teach us. Good and bad, Yin and Yang. So I think Psychosis in my experience whether delusions, moods etc. are real is not important to me.
Its what they lead me to understand about life. I think experiencing the extremes of human nature of the mind, and surviving that, leaves the person with a greater understanding about human nature. Which is what most research like the arts, medicine, religion etc are striving to understand. Not to say you can know everything.

It used to be said that mad people are touched by God. I defiantly think it can be a gift. Although it is very difficult to come through the long dark night of the soul.
There are so many stories about struggling through adversity and becoming a better and greater person for it.
I spoke to a psychiatrist about spirituality and they don't like that word, too floopy for an academic. I think we tend to see a division between life and spiritual ideas, concepts and realms, like consciousness as separate state of being, but I think thats just the higher levels of the same reality. The mundane, lonely, adverse conditions of life are just as relevant to the higher states. Night and Day.

Our existence and experiences on a daily level and the struggle we have with it, is the spiritual journey we're on. Psychosis is an extreme existential challenge, that draws on all our inner and outer resources to cope.

" A smooth sea does not a good mariner make"

I think its true a spirituality or mastery over the self is achieved by people not only with psychosis or other mental illness, but anyone who has suffered adversity."
 
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wolf69

Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
8
#29
Grainne your a star must have more crazy nigts in the hills with the howling bantry brigade and maybe more vids! from your freind wolf69(hmmmm she says who is this)
 
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maudikie

Guest
#30
schizophrenia recovery.

m. He is better able now, but has difficuy in keeping to a budget(rather like the Government!) and he gave me Power of attorney which has now passed to his brother as I am getting older and have arthritis. But we are all good friends as family. I also recall a lecture I attended in the early days by Prof.John Wing when much less was known about the condition and the treatment was veryn hit and miss.He said that someone with schizophrenia lacked "stickability" and I think this was a very good description.
Now we arrange that my son has always got something to do. Odd jobs. Gardening which he loves. Woodwork, Houework. But he tires very easily and we all recognise this and so relieve him of the stress with which "open work" would
put upon him.t during this bad winter he has agin tried reading, He is still finding it difficu in the memory process, but is pusuing it, and I think gradually improving.
He is unable to doso if there is any interruption such as talking or TV so at times retires to his room to read. We understand that this is not lack of sociability and let him get on with it.
I hope this will help to explain to some, though
others may have different problems.
 
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maudikie

Guest
#31
The pressures for money and material things in the Western Societies is surely a contributory facet to mental ill health.Not necessarily to schizophrenia but mealtal good health in general. Also the break-up of families who can give the most support if they are not too presurised.
Educationandrespect for others which should be taught in the family from an early age. Many other factors too.
 
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ramboghettouk

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Messages
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london
#33
Schitzoprenia is a diagnosis given when they see little hope of recovery, it presumes the chronic stage

I forget that american schitzoprenia assoc that says the biggest barrier to recovery is the label

hope to avoid an argument
 
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maudikie

Guest
#34
Sadly about 11% of peoople in prison suffer from schizophrenia. I think the Government according tosomething I heard on radio today they are trying to make condition much better in prisons and ensure that those with a mental illness are treated i priso hospitals. But if the Psychiatric Services had been given more priority these people should not have been in prison in the first place. There is a great deal of research about the brain at present. For instance it hs been found that one half of the brain is better at words and the other lack numerical powers. It is adviable for peoplewith schizophrenia to have a weekly break from their carers, and also better for the patientl Some whose illness is very intgractible will need secure accommodation for a long time. But this should be accompanied by rehabilitation to the best of their ability.
 
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maudikie

Guest
#35
Causes are multiple.(In my opinion!) But it has been shown that one part of the brain is good with speech and another with numbers. So Somewhere in the brain of someone with schizophrenia there has to be a deficit in connection, and a time-lag for the information to pass through the connecting channels which does not necessrily mean they are lacking in intelligence, but are thoughtful and take longer to assimilate the information given to them with a reply which they consider to be appropriate. It can also connect with feelings and emotions. Thus High Expressed emotion is bad for someone with schizophrenia, and the people in contact with them need to judge the timelag. Otherwise it can end up in fight. And in this context where is the connection between the Pinneal gland in the brain and the adrenal glands? And why does the condition most usually strike between the ages of 17 and 25?
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
#36
Causes are multiple.(In my opinion!) But it has been shown that one part of the brain is good with speech and another with numbers. So Somewhere in the brain of someone with schizophrenia there has to be a deficit in connection, and a time-lag for the information to pass through the connecting channels which does not necessrily mean they are lacking in intelligence, but are thoughtful and take longer to assimilate the information given to them with a reply which they consider to be appropriate. It can also connect with feelings and emotions. Thus High Expressed emotion is bad for someone with schizophrenia, and the people in contact with them need to judge the timelag. Otherwise it can end up in fight. And in this context where is the connection between the Pinneal gland in the brain and the adrenal glands? And why does the condition most usually strike between the ages of 17 and 25?
Have you considered presenting your thesis to the Royal College of Psychiatrists? It'll help clear this matter up after the past 300 years :)
 
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maudikie

Guest
#37
Have you pursued your art? I think (but may be wrong) that painting or drawing gets your imagination or psychosis down on paper or canvas. It has been very therapeutic for my son,and others that I know. and he still does it . He is entirely uncomercial and he doesn't want to put his pictures on here. He also loves gardenng, which helps keep his weight down. He is most kind and helpufl to me and elderly neighbours who cannot now cut their grass etc. He does it on a voluntary basis as he is unable to stick to one thing for any length of time, But I think there is a different answer for everyone who suffers, and Government rules and regulations , although there have to be some are not the complete answer to mental illness. I think the media does a great deal of damage in their reporting. But don't stay hiding on your own too long. That won't make you better.
You can always have a cybercoke with me if you like! I apologise for one or two things I have thought about you and possibly said in argument. It has obviously been when you have been unwell. So whether or not you want it I'll give you a hug! I hope you will soon find the answer.
 
Wendy

Wendy

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May 26, 2009
Messages
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South/East
#38
hello

hi apo long time since i last wrote to you on this forum,just wanted to say hello hope your well and thanks for the links,i may buy that book by tamasin knight,bye for now wx:)
 
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maudikie

Guest
#40
It would help a lot if the area in which correspondents were resident to give more local advice and obtain more support. Cornwall now has a working group