• Welcome! It’s great to see you. Our forum members are people, maybe like yourself, who experience mental health difficulties or who have had them at some point in their life.

    If you'd like to talk with people who know what it's like

more humiliation

S

skyeblue

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
10
hello my daughter is bpd and in a mental health unit,(section 3) she was striped naked in a search for her bra, she was covered with a sheet, in the room were 3 females and 2 males assisting with removing her clothes, all while she was being held down, she is geting better, she was humiliated, and is frightened of what will happen next, is there any justice in the world, they will say they were stopping her from harming herself, she is not violant she felt alone, how does she get out of this,
 
ms_P

ms_P

Well-known member
Founding Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
3,067
Location
BeNeLux
Hello Skyeblue and welcome.
Can you give more details of the situation? Is she a minor? Psychotic? I don't know what section 3 is either, I'm afraid.
Your daughter has as much claim to basic human rights as those who put her through such horrid treatment.
I would not stand for it for one moment if it were my daughter.
 
S

skyeblue

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
10
hello, mrs p,
thankyou for the reply, section 3 is used in uk, and she is held in a mental health hospital and cannot leave unless we go to court to have her released. which we are in the process of. the incident is now being investigated, we are waiting to see ther reply, and then will make a formal complaint and go to court if neccessary, we are trying to have her moved to a different hospital. since the incident she has tried to overdose, and is continually saying she wants to kill herself and cant cope in there. she is not a minor, she is in her mid twentys. apart from her solicitor, no one seems to care.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
That sounds absolutely horrible skyeblue. I'm truly sorry that your daughter and those who love her (yourself in particular) had to go through that. I do believe you are doing the right thing by getting angry because this is going to give you the energy to fight against the system that holds her in their "care" for "her sake".

I'm not sure if I can share much in the way of wisdom but I'm willing to try...

- You say you have a solicitor and that's good. No doctor or hospital likes the idea of being sued.

- If you've not been doing so, starting now, document everything.

- It would seem you have taken it upon yourself to learn the legalities of the situation. Also good. It will be very much to your benefit to study any laws pertaining to what appears to be forced treatment and to use that knowledge to your daughter's advantage. For example, assuming the information in this link is correct, a Section 3 cannot be imposed if the nearest relative is in opposition.

- I suggest you contact this group as they may be able to offer you some specific information you could use: Mind Freedom International. What would be ideal for you is to quickly connect with other parents or former patients in your area who have been through a similar process. You can benefit from their insights and experience.

- This doctor might also be able to provide some suggestions to you and your daughter: Rufus May.com

- Other possible sources of support include government officials such as advocates and ombudsmen, and possibly, journalists who can share your story with a wider audience.

I'm assuming that your primary concern is gaining your daughter's release from the stress and trauma of forced treatment. Following that she will likely still require some degree of care so it wouldn't hurt to begin getting that in place for her -- it may even be a requirement of her release. Specifically, she will likely need a place to stay. She may require ongoing medication and treatment, and thus, professional caregivers she can trust. A trauma specialist might be helpful to have on the team.

That's all the information I can think of for now but my heart is with you. I've witnessed family members go through similar treatment (i.e. my father-in-law who was held down by orderlies, restrained, and forcibly injected with anti-psychotic medication at the age of 79 because he wanted to go home). I can only imagine how difficult and painful this must be for you.

I'm sincerely hopeful others can offer some additional information that might help your family at this time.

Best to you and your daughter.

~ Namaste


.​
 
Last edited:
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
An additional thought, skyeblue...

Normally I wouldn't suggest that people share personal details that might identify them on the internet to other people, however it might be helpful if you could at least share the name of your town or city. There may be knowledgeable people in the nearby vicinity but without that detail, they might never know and you might not enjoy the option of benefitting from their knowledge and experience.

On a more personal note, when you say your daughter has bpd, I assumed you meant bipolar disorder. Sometimes however, that term is also used to refer to an individual with borderline personality disorder. Could you clarify if my initial assumption was correct. It's not terribly important but if I'm going to try and steer others your way who can share their encouragement and insights, it would be a good piece of information to know for sure.

Meantime, I'll be happy to share your story with others I know in the blogosphere and invite them to add their thoughts to this thread if they might have any information that will benefit your daughter and you at this time.

~ Namaste
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
Skyeblue,
it's possible the following articles might be of use if you have to meet with a tribunal. I suggest you review them and pass them to your lawyer if you think it will help your daughter's case. Bear in mind that you have to pay him/her to read this stuff so it will probably be better to not pass it on if you don't think it's relevant.

- Recovery Model vs. Forced Treatment

- State Hospital Experience


The articles above can be found at this site: http://www.isps-us.org/koehler.htm There may be other articles there that may be of use to you.


.​
 
S

skyeblue

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
10
thankyou so much for you very comprehensive reply, i will look into all that you have suggested, my daughter had borderline personality disorder, the hospital she is in is not in our area, she is approx an hours drive from us and her family, (she has a husband and 2 wonderful children), i have considered going to the media, and would have access to a journalist if necessary. but i cant put my daughter through more trauma, and the stigma attached to this. i do have alot of knowledge in regards to the legalside of things, but getting it up and running is harder than you may imagine. thankyou again i will now follow up what you suggested. i wonder, the name spiritual emergency, does it relate to your thinking, as i do use the spiritual world, thankyou again.
 
S

skyeblue

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
10
hello spiritual emergency. i have done some research into the links you gave me. it turns out that dr may is in my vacinity.(sort of) i am going to contact him, i had a conversation with my daughter a short time ago and she said she had something to kill herself with. my dilemma to ring the unit and inform them or do nothing and hope she doesnt. i am still deciding. obviously i told her my concerns, but when she has a certain view , nothing could talk her out of it, so if i ring the unit, they will no doubt subject her to the humiliating saga of why i originaly came to this forum. reading dr mays account of things is like reading the account of my daughters time in a hospital. thankyou again.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
skyeblue: i had a conversation with my daughter a short time ago and she said she had something to kill herself with. my dilemma to ring the unit and inform them or do nothing and hope she doesnt. i am still deciding. obviously i told her my concerns, but when she has a certain view , nothing could talk her out of it, so if i ring the unit, they will no doubt subject her to the humiliating saga of why i originaly came to this forum.

It sounds as though you are stuck between that proverbial rock and a hard place, skyeblue. I wish I knew what the best answer was for you but I don't. You know and love her. I'm sure you'll make the best decision you're capable of.

My area of experience and knowledge is around the issues of schizophrenia and psychosis -- there's bound to be some overlap in terms of the most appropriate response but without a solid understanding of the dynamics that underpin borderline personality disorder, I'm not entirely sure where those areas would be. Certainly however, individuals in crisis benefit from humane care; something that is often sorely lacking in an institutionalized setting. They also benefit from the support of those that love them and geographical distances, laws that inhibit open communication (including discussion of treatment), and enforced visiting policies often serve as barriers to that kind of personal emotional support.

she is held in a mental health hospital and cannot leave unless we go to court to have her released. which we are in the process of. the incident is now being investigated, we are waiting to see ther reply, and then will make a formal complaint and go to court if neccessary, we are trying to have her moved to a different hospital.

I suspect that as long as your daughter is expressing a wish to commit suicide, the hospital will have grounds to detain and yes, even strip search her against her will. You and I might recognize this as dehumanizing, even traumatic, but you and I don't have the power to dictate policy. They do and that means you're stuck using their rules to your advantage.

It would seem that she's been dealing with this disorder for a while so it's possible she might have a trusted counselor she is already working with or maybe some peers she regularly seeks out for support. Those people might be able to "get through to her" in a manner you have not. If you think she would feel comfortable with you doing so you might consider calling them and asking them to call or visit with her.

I don't know how easy it might be to arrange a transfer from one hospital to another. If that hospital is closer to her family and thus has a demonstrable benefit, that might be the best argument to put forward. If however, you ask to have her transferred because the people at the current hospital are mean... transferring her might be construed as acceptance of their "meanness" and they're not likely to accept that. A third potential option is if you're consistently unpleasant to deal with they might transfer her just so they can get rid of you. Play that card very carefully because you don't want to inflame them to the degree that you can be accused of breaking the law or banned from hospital property.

Also, simply on general principle I suggest you go out of your way to be pleasant to the nurses. They might look like they have very little power but they are probably spending more time with your daughter than any doctors. As a result they are considerably powerful in terms of contributing to a pleasant, supportive, dignified and nurturing environment for her. They're also the ones making notes on her chart that the doctors are going to read -- in turn, this is going to help guide aspects of her treatment. Some nurses are better than others so do try to steer her away from the ones that don't contribute in a positive manner towards those who just naturally radiate a little more warmth and compassion. There are those kind of professionals out there, they can just be a little difficult to find.

Meantime, this link leads to a page on the Minds site as related to patient rights. There is some contact information there for people who wish to contact the Minds Legal Team as well as additional links that may be helpful to you: Additional Information About Patient Rights

Note that page refers to an earlier version of the act so some information may be out of date. This link however takes you to updated version of the act: 2007 - Mental Health Act

I also found this link as related to Patient Advocacy.

At the bottom of this page is some contact information for the Critical Psychiatry Network -- more doctors. Again, there may be someone there who can offer some insider perspectives you can use to your advantage.

I sincerely wish there was more I could offer you. It's actually quite disturbing to go out on the net and realize just how few resources there actually are in regard to the rights of individuals in severe crisis, a.k.a., the mentally ill.

Continued best wishes to you, your daughter and your family.

~ Namaste



.​
 
Last edited:
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
skyeblue: i do have alot of knowledge in regards to the legalside of things, but getting it up and running is harder than you may imagine.

I've been in contact with a mother who was in a similar situation. Her daughter was being held for forced treatment and the "help" she was recieving worsened the overall situation. They also had to go up against a tribunal board but they were successful in having their daughter released.

There are some differences in the situation as well (i.e., they were dealing with psychosis, not borderline personality disorder) but she has forwarded me the documents they used to prepare for their meeting with the board and she's willing to share them with you if you think they'd be helpful. It's possible they could provide some guidance in preparing your own case.

That information is far too lengthy to share in this space but if you'd like me to forward that information to an outside mailbox, please jot me a note at my private mailbox here and let me know. If you're not sure how to send me a private message, just click on my name and select the option for private messaging from the drop-down menu that appears.

Continued best wishes.

~ Namaste



.​
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
That information has been sent skyeblue.

As based on the above it seems your greatest desire at this point is to have your daughter transferred out of the hospital where she received the treatment you described above to a different hospital that's also closer to her family members. I wish you success with this as it's been my experience that once trust has been broken, it can be almost impossible to re-establish. Your daughter will also likely benefit from being closer to those who know and love her best.

As noted, my own experience revolves around the issues of schizophrenia and psychosis. I have no real understanding of the issue of borderline personality disorder. However, for those who have experienced psychosis, the environment that seems to be best for them is one in which they feel safe, can trust those around them, and can begin to resume control for their own lives. This means playing a central role in treatment decisions concerning their own care.

Earlier I referenced that rock and a hard place that people can find themselves in and this is often the case when it comes to forced hospitalization. People recognize that additional assistance and support is required and they invest their faith in "trained experts" being able to provide it. For some people, it works out okay. For many others, they are brutally disappointed. For that reason, as long as you are going to consider having your daughter transferred to a different location, I would urge you to consider all your options and to also ask her what her wishes are. Your daughter will likely require some additional support and professional assistance but that may best be found in an outpatient or private setting.

Individuals who suffer in a particular strain are the experts in that area which is why I hesitate to say much in that regard because I don't know much about borderline personality disorder. When it comes to psychosis and schizoprenia however I do know that most people can identify what is helping them and what is not; that some clinicians are better than others; that some forms of treatment are better than others, and that there is always hope. The more you can find out about your daughter's experience the better equipped you'll be to offer support to her. For that reason, I would encourage you to seek out resources in your local area that can provide you with those insights: peers (meaning other individuals who carry a diagnosis of BPD), doctors, counselors, therapists, books, articles. In spite of whatever negative experiences your daughter has had in the hospital, there are skilled and caring professionals out there as well as a lot of information that can be used to your mutual benefit.

Continued best wishes to you, your daughter, and your families.

~ Namaste

s_e


[This source also appears to be very thorough in regard to patient rights: Mind: Rights Guide]


.​
 
Last edited:
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
I tried to edit my last post but the window had passed. This link may be the most appropriate one under the circumstances: Discharge From Hospital


.​
 
S

skyeblue

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
10
hello, my daughters medication is as follows; rispirodone consta-depo every 2 weeks, ciprolex (i think its an anti depressent) given daily, sodium valporate given daily, and prn lorazopan chlorpromazine, (im not sure if im spelling these correctly. when we visited her she made clear that the reasons that she is willing to take her own life is the fact she is locked up, she continues to self harm (nothing too serious), because she knows she should not be in there. the hospital says she self harms because she gets upset when she sees her family, so we suggested letting her see her children every week, but they said this would put her at more risk to self harm, in our opinion she self harms because she knows she has to wait 2 weeks to see her children, but they cannot see this and are constantly blaming us. we are a loving family, and i often wonder if they are not used to dealing with a family such as ours, it is tearing my daughter apart to the extremes not seeing them once a week, but still the hospital deny her this. we should get to know today if we have been successful in getting her moved. so we have got fingers crossed ...thankyou once again for your very much appreciated help and advice.
 
D

DRAGON

Active member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
26
ideas

hello, my daughters medication is as follows; rispirodone consta-depo every 2 weeks, ciprolex (i think its an anti depressent) given daily, sodium valporate given daily, and prn lorazopan chlorpromazine, (im not sure if im spelling these correctly. when we visited her she made clear that the reasons that she is willing to take her own life is the fact she is locked up, she continues to self harm (nothing too serious), because she knows she should not be in there. the hospital says she self harms because she gets upset when she sees her family, so we suggested letting her see her children every week, but they said this would put her at more risk to self harm, in our opinion she self harms because she knows she has to wait 2 weeks to see her children, but they cannot see this and are constantly blaming us. we are a loving family, and i often wonder if they are not used to dealing with a family such as ours, it is tearing my daughter apart to the extremes not seeing them once a week, but still the hospital deny her this. we should get to know today if we have been successful in getting her moved. so we have got fingers crossed ...thankyou once again for your very much appreciated help and advice.
I have not had time to read every reply in detail but

1. You can appeal to a mental health Tribunal. Their doctor will examine on the day of the hearing
2. You could consider legal advice in relation to such a tribunal application. Maybe a 2nd opinion could be obtained
3. Close relative can apply foer patient to be released from a Section 3
but hospital managers can block that, on grounds.
4. her case sounds so serious that i wonder even if the diagnosis is correct. It seems to me the self harm issue is key to her continued detentuion. They are likely to detain until they are convinced the risk of that is lowered to a minimal one

You can contact MIND and RETHIN K for advice and information, their contact num,bers are available online.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
186
skyeblue: when we visited her she made clear that the reasons that she is willing to take her own life is the fact she is locked up, she continues to self harm (nothing too serious), because she knows she should not be in there. the hospital says she self harms because she gets upset when she sees her family, so we suggested letting her see her children every week, but they said this would put her at more risk to self harm...

I have some choice terms for "professionals" who lack the basic human intelligence to realize that when you take people in crisis, strip them of their essential dignity, traumatize them, intimidate them, frighten them and then deny them the comfort and companionship of their loved ones while holding the power to do so indefinitely... they get terribly depressed, anguished and anxious.

it is tearing my daughter apart to the extremes not seeing them once a week, but still the hospital deny her this.

Our connection to the people we love and who love us is what gives us the strength to endure during times of hardship and despair. It's not rocket science.

I will be crossing my fingers for you and your family skyeblue. Whatever series of events may have preceded your daughter's admission to the hospital, it would seem that her treatment is adding to the pile as opposed to reducing it.

I'll also be happy to put together some information related to her medication for you.

~ Namaste


.​
 
Top