Mood swings and bipolar

[Twylight]

I understand that with bipolar you can have psychosis

But can you have bipolar without psychosis - just mood swings ?

 

[Lozzi_1004]

I would have thought so... but i'm new to bipolar as i was only diagnosed a few months ago and i suffer from pyscosis so i'm not 100%

 

[Dashem]

Hello

Hi yes i believe u can it depends on the individual. I have bi polar and the only time i suffer with psychosis is when i am having a high mood which is not very often as i mainly suffer with low mood of depression. Hope this helps u in someway..

 

[Apotheosis]

I understand that with bipolar you can have psychosis

But can you have bipolar without psychosis - just mood swings ?

So what is Psychosis with mood swings? I know the Orthodox perspectives, & cannot fathom what is so different between Bipolar & Schizophrenia/psychosis, or for that matter; the differences between all the major "diagnoses". I have known a significant number of people to have switched diagnoses, from Bipolar to Schizophrenia & Schizophrenia to Bipolar. I can identify with bipolar & the "symptoms". When a diagnosis is based almost entirely on the subjective view of another; & based on observation of arbitrary symptoms; (what else could they base it on?); I end up, genuinely thinking the whole symptomatology & orthodox labelling system as really somewhat of a nonsense.

In my own life, it took 8 years before they could identify any specific "label". Since then they have toyed with other labels, & presently they say I have recovered from what I had. This is far from unusual in peoples experiences. I have gone through > drug induced psychosis > psychotic depression > resurfacing of an unknown psychotic illness > depression > possible Bipolar >Schizophrenia > paranoid Schizophrenia > Schizophrenia misdiagnosis > Schizophrenia reinstated >Then a psychiatrist explaining what I had gone through was more in line with a Bipolar type disorder & leaning towards Scizoaffective disorder > to now saying, that although I was ill, I am not now suffering with any disorder; despite when pressed saying I am in fact still "mentally ill". Confused? You will be, if you aren't already. It just seems so bizarre; that seeing as all these "conditions" cannot be categorically or unanimously stated, there is no test to say that you have this or that, & depending how you present on any particular day & to whom, the diagnosis is likely to be different. I am NOT saying that mental illness doesn't exist - far from it, just that after 2 decades of looking into things, in detail, I am even less clear on what orthodox psychiatry is on about & what diagnoses mean; than when I started. & I am not confident that psychiatrists are any the wiser either, especially given the fact, that when pressed, they will concede as much; & basically state exactly what I have here.

 

[Twylight]

It's interestin' stuff

I've known people with bipolar who take an anti-psychotic and a mood stabiliser

But I think i've heard of people coming out of hospital on both and then after a while they just need the mood stabiliser.

can't quite remember ?

 

[Apotheosis]

I've known people with bipolar who take an anti-psychotic and a mood stabiliser

I've been given all kinds of different drugs at different times. I stopped taking all their potions on two occasions, successfully & was a long time off meds after each time. Anti psychotics are notoriously hard to come off, & I have found that I am now dependant on taking them, something which doesn't fill me with delight. The problem for me with this, is that despite on the surface; there appears a surety from certain medical perspectives that - Mental illness = Chemical Imbalance & the solution is therefore "Take Drugs/Meds". Upon investigation, it does seem that people can & do recover med free, if given the opportunity, & in fact it is the significant majority who appear to be able to do this if allowed. On investigation psychiatry has been proved wrong on countless occasions about many things. It is too simplistic to say that someone who recovers, wasn't that ill to begin with, or was misdiagnosed. I know that my recovery is due in a very large part in having not listened to the orthodox & in fact; in spite of the orthodox.
Although I have no way of telling; I firmly believe that had the right advice & support been given when I was fist "ill", that now I would not be dependant on meds.

But how do you put forward this "alternative" position? Although there are some more progressive & intelligent health professionals than the norm; they are very few & far between. Usually, these "med free" & "alternatives" perspectives come from individual sufferers; & it is all too easy to pass such things off as crackpot, deluded & misguided - Even when they are based from researchable facts & scientific studies. The simply conclusion I have come to is that - for there to be any significant change in the care & treatment of the mentally ill, & a complete paradigm shift, then the change must come from the system, as much as it needs to come from the ground up. There is a lot in the way of grass roots, which does campaign for change. My experience has been, & what I have seen, is that the orthodox Bio chemical model reigns supreme, & "professionals" along with "sufferers", don't want change, by & large most people appear very satisfied with the whole set up of labels & meds. This entire paradigm of orthodox psychiatry has never washed with me & it never will. I am scientific, not an expert by any means. But to say that psychiatry is scientific is an utter fallacy, it is pseudo science at best, & at worse it is nonsense.

I just find it hard to accept that so many people are largely satisfied with the bio chemical model & orthodox psychiatry, when all I can see is how wrong it is.

 

[Twylight]

When you think of the history of mental illness ( I won't go too far back, too horrific)

They were sedated in assylums for decades
They were given frontal labotomies
They were given electro-convulsive treatments
Then came tranquilisers
Then came anti-psychotics and care in the community
Unless they take us out of the pressures of everyday life - in some community,medication is all there is.

 

[Twylight]

When you think of the history of mental illness ( I won't go too far back, too horrific)

They were sedated in assylums for decades
They were given frontal labotomies
They were given electro-convulsive treatments
Then came tranquilisers
Then came anti-psychotics and care in the community
Unless they take us out of the pressures of everyday life - in some community,medication is all there is.

And it's Crap.

 

[Apotheosis]

And it's Crap.

Yes, precisely my point, & orthodox psychiatry isn't in any way scientific or therapeutic in it's approaches, especially given that far more progressive & viable ways of approaching the healing of those with mental illness are well documented.

This question, & the problem, of the dire, & I would say despicable & diabolical treatment of the mentally ill; is a problem which is very much tied into the un-evolved aspects of humanity, the un-evolved nature of a mammalian species. Until society as a whole & humanity evolves significantly; then the general trend will continue. Unfortunately, the way that humanity is presently living & the problems it faces, I seriously doubt the continued progress of civilization, & I am not alone in thinking that, even in serious circles. Given fundamentalist agendas, real WMD's, & a plethora of other interconnected problems; we as a species shall be very lucky, I feel, to continue to progress; as we have been in the West, in a Secular & generally "civilised" way. Civilisation may not be as enduring as most like to accept.

 

[silly madam]

Effexor ??

Can I just say how interesting I have found reading the previous posts in this thread. I have very little knowledge of the drugs and treatments out there depsite having been pushed form pillar to post for many years. I have finally found an excellent psychiatrist - privately I hasten to add, as my previous one told me to go out and get a job since he believed I was just bored! However, the reason for my posting is that I was taking effexor for appproximately 12 months and increased to an enormous dose of it during the last 4 months of that time. Simply put, I believe the effexor sent me into a HUGE hypermanic state. Not to go into any gory details, I was about to leave my husband and 3 beautiful children and my behaviour was completely out of order. I was, however, having the time of my life . I was subsequently rushed into a psychiatric unit pronto by my husband. I just wanted to let eveyone know that there may be dire consequences to taking effexor.

 

[davidhudson01]

Bipolar Disorder (also known as Manic-Depression, or sometimes Bipolar Affective Disorder), is a category of serious mood disorder that causes people to swing between extreme, severe and typically sustained mood states which deeply affect their energy levels, attitudes, behavior and general ability to function. Bipolar mood swings can damage relationships, impair job or school performance, and even result in suicide. Family and friends as well as affected people often become frustrated and upset over the severity of bipolar mood swings.
Bipolar moods swing between 'up' states and 'down' states. Bipolar 'up' states are called Mania, while bipolar 'down' states are called Depression. Mania is characterized by a euphoric (joyful, energetic) mood, hyper-activity, a positive, expansive outlook on life, an inflated sense of self-esteem or grandiosity (a hyper-inflated sense of self-esteem), and a sense that most anything is possible. When in a manic state, bipolar people tend to demonstrate a decreased need for sleep, racing thoughts, rapid speech (wherein the words won't come out fast enough to keep up with their racing thoughts) and heightened distractibility. Manic individuals typically show poor judgment and impulsivity, and are prone to engaging in risky or dangerous behaviors and activities.

 

[davidhudson01]

Re: Mood swings and Bipolar

We understood that psychosis with related in Bipolar Disorder and we would be great full if you provide us further more information about this Bipolar disorder and some symptoms due to this Bipolar disorder.

 

[Hope4you]

lamotrigine has exactly the same adverse effect on my husband as effexor did on you .

Can I just say how interesting I have found reading the previous posts in this thread. I have very little knowledge of the drugs and treatments out there depsite having been pushed form pillar to post for many years. I have finally found an excellent psychiatrist - privately I hasten to add, as my previous one told me to go out and get a job since he believed I was just bored! However, the reason for my posting is that I was taking effexor for appproximately 12 months and increased to an enormous dose of it during the last 4 months of that time. Simply put, I believe the effexor sent me into a HUGE hypermanic state. Not to go into any gory details, I was about to leave my husband and 3 beautiful children and my behaviour was completely out of order. I was, however, having the time of my life . I was subsequently rushed into a psychiatric unit pronto by my husband. I just wanted to let eveyone know that there may be dire consequences to taking effexor.

I can recognise this scenario so well, but I can not do anything to change my husband's mind about deserting me everytime he goes manic. Nothing will change until his episode ends then he can not believe he acted that way towards me and he is ashamed and very remorseful. He has no insifght when he is high but the menatl health team canot reach him. He is alos very plausible and often manages to convince then he is rational and that there arev just relationship problems. This is not the case at all, and as soom as he is out of the high mood swing he is very happy and relieved to be with me agin, but is also very depressed then too. I have taken him back so many times and never left him myself. Itis alwayys he who leaves. Lamotrigine has been disastrous for him and any antidepressants have the same effect in terms of causing mania to return quickly or over next few weeks. I don't know what to do. I am getting nowhere. The mental health team do respond to my concerns by trying with difficulty to contact him and by offerrin him a appointment but he is in so much denila and so resistant they can not get him to agree to any change in treatment.

I have studied this disorder myself thoroughly, am medically trained and am very aware of what other combinations of medications would help, and have recommended these to the Mental elath services and requested specialist referrals repeatedly, but because he has hypomania rather than full blown mania, even thogh hypomania can be just as destructive indeed, I can not get the mental health team to take any serious action. I really think he needs sectioning or hospital treatment or intensive outpatient reassessment . but he will not coopertae whe high. I also think it is harder to encourage a man into treatment than a woman. I have tried everything to try to get him to see sense and to seek better help but as he has np insight, a banging my head against a brick wall. It is a continual waiting game, and a revolving door. I am at my wits end. He has just written saying he wants to end the relationship with me but offers no explanation and says he won't discuss it, after taking off out of the blue without any upset between us, having only been back together 6 months ( Depressed mood ) after the previous 4 - 5 month epipsde of mania, when he deserted me then too. Does anyone else experience this same pattern of frequent cyclical abandonmenst without explanation or rarely any trigger or fall out before ?

Sometimes ( usually not ) there has been mild conflict before his sudden departure abroad or back to his flat or shooting oof up to London, but the conflict ( Disagreement or upset or mild argument ) never warrants such an extreme reaction. I don't take off when he disagrees with me or distorts something have said or takes offence at soemthing completly harmless ! It is not normal behaviour. He always feels justified in leaving and is filled with hostility , age , aggression, confrontational atitude, argumentative mess, verbal or physical assult, which seems to come from nowhere, and is completely out of character, overnight literally, having been depressed for long periods prior to it, as he is a rapid cycler with no free periods of wellness in between.

Is this recognisable to others, the take offs, the desertion, the ending the relationship suddenly out of the blue then wanting to return immediately the episode has passed, and contacting me staright away to apologise and in an awfully guilty and embarrased state? I feel shocked and hurt every time he leaves me even though I know it is not him but his illness, which is why I always take him back and we jus pick up exactly where we left off, though I have stressed things need to cahnge and he needs to accept more help and reassessment of his treatment, and to let me come to the psychiaitrist with him like I used to in the past until he blocked it when high. I have never betrayed him in any way, though he has come close to cheating on me or is atleast hypersexulally preoccupied and contacting websites, and looking excessivly at pornography when hypomanic, and eyeing up women he passes or emailing a friend old friends who he only contacts when high, or emailing a stranger on some newly joined social networking site telling them he is watching a long legged blonde in a pub in London, during his take off . I know this is classic hypomanic or manic behviour and out of his control or character but it still hurts me deeply each time it recurrs and really affects my self confidence and upsets me terribly . Sometimes I really feel I am wasting my time and my life, but I have alkways believed that with improved treatmenr he could get well or have significantly reduced or less frequent or severe epiosdes. He does not have euphoric highs, they are dysphoric and agitated and aggressive. He is in no way loving to me then. He is very hostile but he can be very charming to others as they are not pointing out that he is hypomanic and needs help. Thats why he hates me then I think.

I love him ( and when not high ) I believ he loves me, he says he does, though is not very open about how he feels very often, but he is pushing me to my limit and I am feeling terribly sad and demoralised by it all, and finding this pattern of rejection so frustrating as he will not even communicate then, and refuses to reply to any medium of contact until he wants to, often weeks or months and will not clear his messages or read his email or answer the phone. I really don't know how many times I can take him back and being denied any normal relationship or consistent support for many many months of each year, on and off all year long. I know I am missing out so much on what I could have had with another relationship had I made different choices, everyone else tells me, but I feel I made a commitment to him that I would stay by him and not give up on helping him get well. We have been togethger 8 years now, and he is still behaving the same. I have missed the boat re children I think and he is in his eraly fifties now. I tried to leave in our first year as his aggression caused me to have a breakdown, but onece I was nolonger depressed, I decided to lear all In could about his illnesss and support hij and take it on 100%. I had to make that decision at that point and it nearly broke my heart to leave him. Since then I have researched the illness insiside out bought every good book about bipolar disorder under the sun, read all the reasearch, studied all the treatments, attended support groups etc, and battled with the mental health services. He has tried to do some of this too at times but it never lasts. He has shown interest in reading the books but without insight he can nor see himslef in them, he has sporadically attended the mental health services, but not oiften enough, and sometimes fails to keep appointments especially when very high or very low.


They do not see him often enough to see the real him, and I think the hypomanic person they have seen the believe is the real character, which it is most certainly not, but he can be so articulate and plausible as he is so intelligent and many of his team staff especially his key worker, a social workers , and soe others are not that sharp at all compared with him,so he can sound very well, and they do not have the skill to spot subtle changes as they do notv really know him. I wish he had the more acute Bipolar 1 as his mania would more than likely be recognised. Hypomania is still moderate mania and can be devastating as it goes undertreated for so long during which time the damage is usually done.

THis is a life of hell and it affects my interest in everything else including my motivation and interrst in my joib or any social activities. I feel very lonely and defeated. I feel desperately sad for him as he has sustained so anmny losses over the years, and has tremendous potential which he has never reached, and has lost all his relationships due to behaving just like this, but was not given a proper diagnosis or any appropriate medication until 40, though he has sufferred with this since 16. It has shaped and desroyed his life. It must be possible for him to have mpore effective treatment butbthe menatl health team will not refer him to the specialist mood disorders clinic in London at the Mudslet which I have repeatedly requested. Maybe they have mentioned it to him but he may be resistant and will not tell me. I feel desolated again and so deeply frustrated with the whole situation.

 

[Hope4you]

Antipsychotics have other uses than psychosis

It's interestin' stuff

I've known people with bipolar who take an anti-psychotic and a mood stabiliser

But I think i've heard of people coming out of hospital on both and then after a while they just need the mood stabiliser.

can't quite remember ?

Hi there, The use of antipsychotic medications often alarms people wrongly because the word psychosis is often misunderstood and thought of as very scary. It is also mixed up with psychopathic which is not the same.

Antipsychotics are not just used for actual psychosis. They are often used in mood disorders to calm high levels of agitation particularly as they appear to also have antimanic properties .Some actually have mood stabilizing properties such as Olanzapine and Quetiapine, which can enhance other standard mood stabilizers such as valproate, and Lthium, and help with depressive and manic states that are acute. Sometimes antipsychotics are used alone in acute phases and maintenance instead of mood stabilizers, though they are usually prescribed in combinations, particularly in resistant forms, and in rapid cycling or acute forms of depression and mania / or hypomania.

Psychosis just means thought distortion, or false perceptions which are not real but seem vey real to the person experiencing them, and can be distressing and believed for long periods of time. It implies losing touch with reality and believing things that are not true, and this will naturally impact on judgement and decisions made. It is usually accompnaied by a loss of mental insight so the sufferer does not realize they are unwell or believing stange things. To them they may be real, but some people do question the thoughts and beliefs they are having. Some people however have some degree of insight and may be willing to discuss or accept that the thoughts or beliefs , sounds, voices, smells or tastes they have are not always as they seem and are misleading them.

THis can be very challenging.It can be very disturbing or distressing to the individual or awe inspiring as psychosis may be of a positive or negative nature, depending on the base underline mood
, but very worrying to the onlooker, friends and family, as they can see that their loved one is out of reality and acting on this, and frustrtinmg as thye can not convince them otherwise whatever they say or do. It can be exhausting trying to penetrate someones loss of insight, and rarely works without proper treatment. It can be very hard work for loved ones and professionals to someoneget through to soemoens false beliefs and this is where antispsychotic medications may help to restore the brain function and distorted thinking processes caused by faulty neurotransmitter signalling, to a more rational state, partially or fully. False thoughts and perceptions can be mild or severe. Paranoia is a form of psychosis as it involves an exaggerated suspiciousness, again mild moderate or severe with no firm basis in reality, but it may stem from real anxieties about certain things which have become magnified in the persons mind out of all proportion to the real situation.

This is very common in bipolar diosrder, in severe deep depressions which may be accompanied by frigthening negative delusions, or in extreme forms of mania, when delusions may come as a more positive form if euphoric , but delusional all the same, or fixed hostile beliefs towards certain people, and paranoia more common in dysphoric agitated mania and hypomania. or mixed mood states. Sometimes real anxieties have over time ,without proper treatment , become distorted in the persons mind and magified into a delusional level , and it can be very difficult to break through this loss of insight and denial, virtually impossible until the mood episode of mania / hypomania passes or is adequately treated.

 

[Twylight]

Many Thanks....