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mentally ill off meds problem neighbours

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*Sapphire*

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Very true. Mental illness is equated to powerful emotions, behaviour which is not accepted as normal; & anything that does not equate to societal norms; be it thoughts, ideas, attitudes or whatever. Orthodox psychiatry is the arbitrator of Reality; while in truth the Jury is still out on what Reality is.
This is so true, and it is reflecting itself in education too. Since there has been an orthodox and prescriptive method of education, there are now arguments to suggest that we are no longer producing natural genius's such as Einstein. We are in fact hindering their potential rather than helping. Look at Leonardo Da Vinci, he was an Italian Polymath, scientist, mathematician, engineer, inventor, anatomist, painter, sculptor architect, botanist, musician and writer. He was in a generation that accomodated his curiosity, his diverse methods of educating himself. In a society that did not largely give him limitations to his exploration of ideas. As a result he was a hugely influential man and a great benefit to advances in his subjects and society then and now. In todays education system, I wonder if he would have reached his potential in those respects, where we are encouraged to focus on one subject only, and learn in one accepted way. I wonder if he would be classed today as someone with a mental health problem? Parallels can be drawn with mental health where there is still a leaning towards a prescriptive and general way of dealing with things and diagnosing which fails to account for the individual, their characteristics, their potential and capabilities.

The irony is that it's Society itself that displays frightening pathology; & is itself largely insane. I'd agree that there are those dangerous imbalanced individuals that need very specialist care; & society needs protection from them; unfortunately that usually doesn't happen either, the people that need specialist care don't get it, & such people are usually free to commit violent acts, due to massive failings in the system - which, as you have pointed out; has all the mentally ill tarred with the same brush, & gives the general public the attitude & perception that All the mentally ill are dangerous, & prone to irrational violence for no reason; reinforcing negative social stereotypes.

The solution would have to be something very different from how all this has been approached over the past 60 odd years - which when viewed from a detached perspective; the practices of a wholly bio-medical model, & pharmacological orthodox psychiatry; can only be seen as a monumental failure; to society & the individual. But as long as individuals refuse to see these things for what they are; there will be no change; it will only get worse. People need to realise that, in relation to modern MH practise - the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
Very true I couldn't have put that better myself!
 
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ramboghettouk

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Perhaps rather than trying to alter the person doing it, you should try to alter your response to it, and I don't mean that offensively. I have found many things that are unchangeable distressing, and the only thing I can change is how I choose to respond.
__________________

I find people shouting in the street distressing, there but for the grace of god go i' also quite often people who act like that have ended up physically violent with me

I think it was the daily mail that compared mps to commuters on the tube when a commmunity care patient gets on and starts shouting, i have trouble with the idea of just ignoring it

Theres a mentally ill women who comes round to see the alky, she's drunk totally all the time, she always seems like she's on the point of attacking peope, in fact she attacked one neighbour and he beat her up badly, maybe you think she should just be left, i know thats what they're doing

I just think leaving people like that is not right, theres a whole gamut of behaviours that may not be a danger to society but are distressing

I wonder sometimes if i was in that situation what i'd want the only reason i'm not is i take large quantitys of pillls to try to avoid it
 
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schizolanza

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Hi Rambo.I wish there was something I could say to improve things.
I've had my fair share of problems with neighbours over the years.I wont go into detail on here.
 
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*Sapphire*

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I find people shouting in the street distressing, there but for the grace of god go i' also quite often people who act like that have ended up physically violent with me

I think it was the daily mail that compared mps to commuters on the tube when a commmunity care patient gets on and starts shouting, i have trouble with the idea of just ignoring it

Theres a mentally ill women who comes round to see the alky, she's drunk totally all the time, she always seems like she's on the point of attacking peope, in fact she attacked one neighbour and he beat her up badly, maybe you think she should just be left, i know thats what they're doing

I just think leaving people like that is not right, theres a whole gamut of behaviours that may not be a danger to society but are distressing

I wonder sometimes if i was in that situation what i'd want the only reason i'm not is i take large quantitys of pillls to try to avoid it
With all due respect if that is the case Rambo, then why did you not do something about it, rather than just walk past, get distressed, and ignore it? If you felt it could lead towards violence?

Who's responsibility is it in this case?

When my neighbour acted up, I could not ignore it, because some teenagers were leaving his flat in an ambulance which I found disturbing so I took the relevant action and called the police, environmental health and the housing agency. The problem was that these services did not appear to respond immediately or effectively, it was not my problem for not reporting it. I did everything I could but I alone could not change it. So was left with nothing else to do but choose not to get distressed by it anymore, because by getting distressed my mental health was starting to decline, being distressed was becoming damaging to me.

If I do see someone acting violently I react in the same way, but instead of getting distressed I take action. Some teenagers were throwing rocks at a tramp in the street, and I intervened and stopped them. Do you think they should have just been given meds, or just a telling off and some re-educating which I did? I am not saying everyone should intervene in every situation because of personal safety, but a phone call can usually be made.

No I don't think violent acts should be ignored at all. But we have two problems here.
One) we live in a society that seems to take little personal responsibility for reporting it to the relevant authorities, or intervening, or making professionals aware of issues caused by individuals, so that they can assist in the situation.
Two) When they are reported little seems to be done in the majority of cases, whether that be addressing mental health issues, providing ongoing support or taking prosecutory action.

I do understand that using meds in this climate seems to appeal to most people, because there seems to be some apathy by the MH professionals to intervene, they seem to have little powers to enable them to help or fear some form of repercussions for doing so. There also seems to be a complete lack of funding to help them besides using meds. But just because it is like this right now, doesn't mean that I think meds are the only and best ways of dealing with these things. I am convinced that there is a better way if intelligent and more cohesive strategies were put in place and if proper funding was allocated towards it.
 
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ramboghettouk

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There are a lot of people given the ability i'd try to help. one social worker was on about my concern for those worse than me, unfortunately i am vulnerable and a no of times when i've tryed to help i've ended up exploited

I don't beleive in meds but given that in todays world that is the only available thing i have to agree to it's use for me and for some around me given theres nothing else and given that alternatives, in my experience are overrated

I have strong views about thoise therapists who take a delight in judging psychioatrists when those therapists only treat the rich, maybe psychiatrists would rather have other choices

Most mental health services for the poor have a heavy element of social control, fact is they wouldn't be funded otherwise, what party or system is going to be different, it gets me down sometimes, i understand why people are reluctant to use services, but i don't think people have the right to take things out on people in the same boat, if some of my problem neighbours were giving gordon brown a hard time i wouldn't mind so much
 
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Apotheosis

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I don't beleive in meds but given that in todays world that is the only available thing i have to agree to it's use for me and for some around me given theres nothing else and given that alternatives, in my experience are overrated
I differ in that I don't think that some of the alternatives are over rated at all; but are conversely largely ignored & denied. I think it's Orthodox psychiatry & the scientific model that is extremely over rated in relation to MH. But I do see your point - the viable alternatives are not accessible unless people have a ton of cash, or are in extremely beneficial positions. It is largely a case of the orthodox psychiatric system, i.e. Meds - or nothing at all. That's the problem I have always had, & still do. I have never agreed with orthodox psychiatric practice, & I believe in the effectiveness of alternatives; but after sections, forced meds, & med dependency, with the exclusion of access to any of the viable alternatives - it's a choice of nothing, or the system, & the system is better for me than nothing. I have gone many years in the past with no contact with the system; & it was far harder.

maybe psychiatrists would rather have other choices
Yes, very often their hands are tied as much as ours by the system. I have had conversations with psychiatrists to that effect. But that doesn't justify people not making a stand & taking action for change.

Most mental health services for the poor have a heavy element of social control, fact is they wouldn't be funded otherwise, what party or system is going to be different,
Social change can & does take place, societal change happens. Whether such changes will be for the better or worse remains to be seen. Over a large time scale I don't actually think it could get much worse, but maybe it will. We may not see significant positive change in our lifetimes, maybe there will be? But I'd like to think that at some stage we have a more enlightened attitude to these things; within society as a whole.
 
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ramboghettouk

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I went to a meeting when i was living in the haringey area, this rethink innner city guy was on about the wonderful housing project in brum, remember my analyst talking about it in brum, they were building it down her street and she said it sounded so awful she was tempted to sign the petition.

Then there was some women from brent user group on about wonderful things in brent, i now live in brent don't see anything wonderful

I'm mentioning this because certain people are on about wonderful off drugs alternatives, i'm wondering if they;re the same, wonderful things elsewhere when no one can tell the truth of that elsewhere
 
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