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Mental health services!!

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TheHeroYouHate

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Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
24
Hi, i'm new :)
Well, I was just wondering if there's anyone here from the UK that has had problems with the mental health services for young people and if/how they overcame them?
I'm nearly 17 and have been in the service for about 3 years after self harm, suicide attempts, drinking, eating problems etc although i developed OCD at a very young age (4 or 5)
Basically, i've been messed about for a long time now.
i used to be under the child and family mental health unit, who were hugely unhelpful, made me do art therapy and a lot of therapies that i knew i would not benefit from.and referred me to adult services when i was 16, with a warning that they thought i was dependent on therapy (!?)
i saw a horrible man who basically told me i was lying and to come back in a few years, a couple of months ago.
Since then i made a complaint and saw a lovely woman, who listened to me and understood me and diagnosed me with BPD.
Since i'm under 18 she said she couldn't officially diagnose me but said she's 99% sure that's what i'll be diagnosed with in a years time.
So she told me i would be prescribed antipsychotics and receive DBT, but she'd have to confirm that with her 'team'.
then i was told i couldnt have the antipsychotics because i have a drinking problem, which is highly untrue - i sometimes have a shot of vodka when im stressed before college, or put whiskey in my coffee when im upset but thats largely due to the fact that i've had to learn to self-medicate or i would certainly not have made it through the last few years.
and now i'm told i cannot have DBT because i haven't officially been diagnosed.
so it seems i have been let down again.
anyone had similar experiences or know any ways to get help!?
im ruining everything i have and i need help.
i put my boyfriend through hell every day, im not going to college very often and my mind is a state.:mad:
 
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Dollit

Guest
Personality Disorders can't be diagnosed in people under 18. That's a guideline that's adhered to strictly.

If you're having a vodka before college or whisky in your coffee when you're upset you are actually drinking to change the way you feel which is an early indication of a drinking problem. It would be foolhardy for them to prescribe you antipsychotics in those circumstances and, as you are still a minor, they have to be extra careful.

It's hard to be patient and wait until you're 18 but that's what you have to do. Perhaps one of the younger members can identify with you - my own experience with the system as a 15 year old was far from good.
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
Hi, i'm new :)
Well, I was just wondering if there's anyone here from the UK that has had problems with the mental health services for young people and if/how they overcame them?
I'm nearly 17 and have been in the service for about 3 years after self harm, suicide attempts, drinking, eating problems etc although i developed OCD at a very young age (4 or 5)
Basically, i've been messed about for a long time now.
i used to be under the child and family mental health unit, who were hugely unhelpful, made me do art therapy and a lot of therapies that i knew i would not benefit from.and referred me to adult services when i was 16, with a warning that they thought i was dependent on therapy (!?)
i saw a horrible man who basically told me i was lying and to come back in a few years, a couple of months ago.
Since then i made a complaint and saw a lovely woman, who listened to me and understood me and diagnosed me with BPD.
Since i'm under 18 she said she couldn't officially diagnose me but said she's 99% sure that's what i'll be diagnosed with in a years time.
You would be surprised at how much things have changed over the past few decades. It has taken me 20 years to get limited psychological help. Almost 20 years ago when I was 17 - there was nothing. I was sectioned - pumped full of meds - discharged - & shortly after discharged from all services - & made to go into full time work. I had severe drug/alcohol problems. I wasn't listened to; & the treatment was very poor.

I cannot say if you have a problem with alcohol - but Dollit is right - you are using drink to change the way you feel - it is a sign. Alcoholism is more than just about what & how much we are drinking - it is our relationship to drink - why we drink. The Alcoholic is not just the dirty tramp drinking out a brown paper bag on a park bench.

I would have loved art therapy & "lots of therapies". These things are very much based on what effort you are willing to put in; as well as quality of the practitioners. But things have moved forward. There is more of a focus on early intervention, less of a willingness to stick people on meds.
Would you really want the experiences I (& others) have had of the system? Do you really want to look back in 20 years time at a life of med dependence; & having being given little else in the way of help? You don't realise how much is being offered to you; & the difference in potential opportunities for recovery; over the severe lack & worse treatment of those that have gone before you. Try & make use of what they are offering.
 
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T

TheHeroYouHate

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
24
So why tell me she was sure i'd be diagnosed in a year and a bit?
And to be fair, it's a little ridiculous to assume that everyone becomes mentally developed the second they turn 18.
And no I clearly don't want to be sectioned or anything but at the same time I would appreciate being taken seriously.
It's a bit of a contrast that they completely disregard me now but 15 years ago I would've been locked up.
And I did actually try in therapy but after years of unhelpful therapy you're not too eager.
WHAT IS BEING OFFERED TO ME!!?!
i have nothing now, im getting no therapy and no medication.
that's hardly a lot of opportunities is it?

and i drink less than the average teenager.
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
So why tell me she was sure i'd be diagnosed in a year and a bit?
I have no idea?, in what capacity did she give the diagnosis? Is she a psychiatrist? I cannot fathom why you would be so keen to have a label of serious psychiatric illness?

I don't agree with orthodox psychiatry - I have had many different diagnoses - & miss diagnoses - who knows what half of them are on about? I for one certainly don't implicitly trust a "professional" who has usually had no experiences of what I am going through; & is basing a diagnoses on their subjective assumptions - based on what they are observing - it's not an exact science with these bozos.

And to be fair, it's a little ridiculous to assume that everyone becomes mentally developed the second they turn 18.
Quite true - some never develop properly - emotionally or mentally; whatever their age.

And no I clearly don't want to be sectioned or anything but at the same time I would appreciate being taken seriously.
It's a bit of a contrast that they completely disregard me now but 15 years ago I would've been locked up.
It doesn't sound like they have completly disregarded you; or you would have had no appointments, no therapy & no one to speak to. What in the way of assistance; would you like to receive? What help do you want? At 17 I was arrested numerous times under the MH act - sectioned, forced drugs; put in strong rooms & abused. Maybe for people seeking negative attention it is favourable - but for any kind of therapeutic assistance; it isn't - I've been very damaged by such experiences. I agree that orthodox services have a long way to go; but be thankful this isn't the 1980's or the early 90's any longer.

Who is not taking you seriously; & about what?

And I did actually try in therapy but after years of unhelpful therapy you're not too eager.
I have had to wait 2 decades - 20 years! for the opportunity to even try psychological orthodox therapeutic assistance; even now it is limited; I certainly haven't had the opportunity of years of it; as you have.

What therapy have you received? for how long? with whom? & what made it all so unhelpful?

WHAT IS BEING OFFERED TO ME!!?!
i have nothing now, im getting no therapy and no medication.
that's hardly a lot of opportunities is it?
You said you spoke with a "lovely woman" - have you now been discharged from all services?? There are organisations that can help. Being the age that you are there is far more in the way of MH support for young people than there is for people my age. There is MIND, Rethink, & many support schemes for the young.

What opportunities are you looking for? What do you expect medication will do? I am not saying it definitely won't have the potential to help. But it is no cure, & in isolation it will make little difference. Look around at the site - read up on peoples experiences of meds; their side effects & long term effects. Do you really want to embrace that & eagerly go down that road? What do you think a prescription will accomplish? There are very good reasons why the emphasis is shifting from meds being the only recourse - especially with first point referral & the young.

and i drink less than the average teenager.
What is the average teenager?

i sometimes have a shot of vodka when im stressed before college, or put whiskey in my coffee when im upset but thats largely due to the fact that i've had to learn to self-medicate or i would certainly not have made it through the last few years.
- that isn't the behaviour of someone who doesn't have issues with alcohol - & I could give almost the exact same reasons for why I first started misusing substances.
 
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daffy

daffy

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Must admit I agree with most of Apo's post. You do seem to have recieved a lot of help and have not been ignored by the sytem. Now a days there is much more emphasis placed on therapy and keeping you of the meds for as long as possible. One on them here is the strong possiblity of side effects. Weight gain, nausea, headaches, sexual disfunction

In the 1970s when i first started treatment i was only treated by my gp and over prescribed ADs until i ended up taking the full bottle. Fortunatly no long lasting damage was done but at long last i saw a pych who then promply ignored me for the next two decades.

Im sure if id have had more therapy and less meds i would'nt be in the state i am now which is having to attend a day hospital every day

Please take any therapy that is offered
 
T

TheHeroYouHate

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
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Yes she said there was nothing she could do.
And i've had one to one with someone who didn't actually try to give me therapy she just let me talk and laughed at me.
CBT but my therapist decided it was unhelpful.
Group art therapy that was awful - everyone there thought it was awful-all they did was talk about medication.
It's not that I'm eager to get a diagnosis, it's that i've been misdiagnosed a lot and i think this one fits me in every way so it is a positive thing in a way.
And with regards to medication, of course i dont WANT it, i have a fear of illness so the thought of side effects is horrible, but i also don't want to be stuck in my house every day because i get dissociation and psychosis when i go out.
And it's frustrating because i have a friend who has been diagnosed as bipolar (i don't think this is true because she is a liar but then that's not important really) and she's getting help - medication, therapy everything.
BECAUSE IT IS EASIER TO TREAT.
And I've been told that there is a woman about 3 miles away from where i live that deals with 16-18 year olds and stuff, who works in the place where i had child therapy.
but i'm not in the catchment area [even though where i have to go now is a good 5 miles away] so i can't see her.
 
T

TheHeroYouHate

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
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The average teenager where i come from drinks a 40/70cl bottle of vodka on a friday night and a bottle of wine on a saturday.
that's much more harmful than what i do.
and i would stop if i needed to, or if they actually gave me pills.
and what i forgot to mention in the first post was that she said 'i'll definitely need to prescribe you antipsychotics, or you can have a really high dose of antidepressants if you want?here look these two types up, i can send you them in the post if necessary' when i first saw her, then it changed to 'you'll have to cut down, not stop completely though, your drinking before i can give you the pills' to now 'pills arent good in an under 18' after i told her i would and could easily cut down.
 
D

Dollit

Guest
You do talk a lot about what you're not getting and you've had a lot more than some people.

Bipolar Disorder isn't easy to treat at all - I've had it since I was 14 years old and (at 50) am only just gaining stability.

Tell me what it is you actually want? And why you think it will help. It would be interesting to know what you think there is that you're not getting.
 
T

TheHeroYouHate

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
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Don't patronize me.
And I disagree with that, I know a lot of young people who have had a lot of useful help.
I'm not a retard.
I would like the DBT and antipsychotics that they originally mentioned.
I would like to be able to go out and live my life.
I would like to be able to go to college and not have panic attacks the minute i get there.
I would like to not rip my boyfriend and mum to shreds every night.
I would like to not be permanently injured from punching and banging my head against walls.
I would like to not have periods of time where I can't think in sentences.
I would like to be able to enjoy things.
I would like people to stop judging me before they have seen what i'm like on a daily basis.
 
D

Dollit

Guest
I'm not patronizing you I'm simply asking a question. I don't think you're retarded.

You're asking for medication that you've been refused on age grounds - that's not likely to change.

People here will tell you that sometimes you have to accept what is thrown at you until there is a time where it can change and make the best of what you've got. I recently had a talk with someone I'm very close to who pointed out that sometimes I presume my illness causes my problems when actually a lot of the time it's just about what life throws up.

And I haven't worked for 7 years, I'm never likely to be able to return to work and I have been suicidal more times than I care to count and that's just this years - being suicidal is a fact of life for me. But I go on with my life because I don't choose to die.

Have you made any positive changes to your life - a small start but at least you'd have a little power.
 
T

TheHeroYouHate

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Dec 18, 2008
Messages
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I know, it's not that i've been refused so much that i've been messed around.
And it always strikes me as odd because i know someone who was on antipsychotics aged 15 for mild psychosis so you would've thought they would give me them seeing as they said i was having psychosis and dissociation and medication would be the only way to treat it.
if they'd said straight out 'you can't have them, you're under 18' then it would've been fine.
what do you mean by positive changes?
and I wasn't trying to belittle bipolar or anything it's just that the overall treatment plan is a lot clearer cut than for borderline so a psychiatrist would rather do the easier thing obviously.that's all i meant.
 
D

Dollit

Guest
The overall treatment plan for bipolar isn't easier or clearer cut, if it was there'd be a hell of a lot people with Bipolar who are stable instead we live a crazy life. And since Borderline Personality Disorder isn't an illness they don't treat it they alleviate symptoms.

Perhaps there have been communication problems with the people who you've been seeing but it is your right to ask questions as long as they're in the right way.

What I meant by positive changes is quite simple. For example R will not let me use Bipolar Disorder as an excuse for my behaviour and quite rightly. It may exacerbate things but it does not control my behaviour.

Or I can wake up and think that I don't feel too happy and either blame it on the Bipolar Disorder or accept that it's part of life sometimes. Just learning to not blame can be a big step forward.
 
A

Apotheosis

Guest
I would like the DBT and antipsychotics that they originally mentioned.
I would like to be able to go out and live my life.
I would like to be able to go to college and not have panic attacks the minute i get there.
I would like to not rip my boyfriend and mum to shreds every night.
I would like to not be permanently injured from punching and banging my head against walls.
I would like to not have periods of time where I can't think in sentences.
I would like to be able to enjoy things.
I would like people to stop judging me before they have seen what i'm like on a daily basis.
If you want all that - then it requires a lot of personal effort - self discipline, self care, regularity, & routine. No one will hand it to you on a plate - it has to come from you. DBT may help - but considering your experiences with therapy so far, it is questionable what you will get from it? Anti psychotics could have the potential opposite effect of helping you to get those things.

Med's & certain therapies are not a cure all. There is no magic pill. The people who have posted replies to you are trying to help. We have a lot more experience of this stuff than you do.

Since being on meds I haven't worked full time. It's been over 10 years that I have been constantly on a med. The anxiety has been worse. I am quite apathetic & unmotivated. I am at present utterly dependant on taking them; I wish I'd had more opportunities to try a med free recovery & more appropriate help earlier on in my life. Personally I blame the meds for a lack of being able to fully enjoy my life - anti-psychotics suppress emotions & thoughts - they don't enhance them! Without sounding melodramatic - it sometimes feels like I've had the past 10 years taken from me; having being coerced & forced meds in the first place & given a sentence of living in a kind of limbo land. Whose to say that when your on meds you don't end up spending all day in bed; drop out of college & life; & become even more resentful, angry, & ill? The meds have a lot to do with emotional outbursts of anger; with me. I think that because they suppress so much stuff - there is a build up of things & then stuff comes out sideways; & often I can't help that. Some people's experience & research shows that in a minority of people; meds can lead to, more commonly suicidal & sometimes homicidal behaviour - especially in the young. Certain anti depressants have been shown to have this marked effect. I was put on Prozac at 21 - shorty after I nearly succeeded in killing myself. Is that linked? It is possible.

Daffy said:
the strong possiblity of side effects. Weight gain, nausea, headaches, sexual disfunction
Could you deal with those side effects? & the possibility of other side effects as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic#Side_effects

Being informed is critical in making informed decisions; & you would do well to find out as much as you can on the subjects of meds & the wide area of information concerning mental health.

I don't want to be on tablets the rest of my life; & I wish I wasn't on them. Medication is a trade off - for a few they seem to work well; for many I don't think meds do work very well. It is about what we are doing in our day to day lives that makes the critical difference.

Dollit is right - A recovery is based on effort & hard work - no magic wands. It takes time, work & struggle to build positive experience; gratitude & acceptance needs to be developed; Blame will solve nothing. Life will bring Shit as well as the good stuff - that's life - either we learn & grow or we become more bitter, resentful, & hateful.

No one thinks that you are a retard - But you come across as very angry & resentful - I can identify with that. I am still working on certain issues in my life around blame, resentment, anger, & addiction issues etc - & likely always will be. I am however not young enough to know everything any more.
 
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T

TheHeroYouHate

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I do understand that I need to make an effort in order to feel better, I have tried to help myself a lot over the past few years but it's hard when I have no support.
And i've researched antipsychotics a lot, so I do realise the risks but I'm also terrified of how often psychotic/dissociative things are happening recently and I would do anything to make them stop.
I just feel like the professionals have let me down moreso than other teenagers i know with mental health problems, and it's not just me being paranoid because my mum, friends and college counsellor woman (who i go to when i have psychosis or something of that calibre and she lets me go home)are all furious.
It's just putting a hideous strain on me and the people close to me - in the original meeting with the new psychiatrist woman my mum cried with relief and so did others when i told them, and now i'm fucked again and everyones worried for me as well as my own mental stuff.
I'm just disgusted with everything.
 
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