Medication Madness

[Apotheosis]

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[Apotheosis]

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[Apotheosis]

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[Apotheosis]

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[BadBuddha]

I'll take their word that there's no chemical reason for my depression. I've been a heavy (or sometimes light) user of weed, many drugs and alcohol (which I started on seriously at 13, though I've been dry for the last 20 years with a couple of relapses. I'm 52 now). Now it's just benzos and anti-depressants.
I have 2 problems with their ideas: firstly, I wake up every morning feeling terrible and I have to get to work and frankly I don't think I could get through a difficult day without some kind of medication (I'm a teacher). I've only started back on anti-depressants the last 18 months or so, so it's not the job. I know there are external factors that have brought on my crises (the last couple of years, my father dying and my son going away to university). But none of these really explain my terrible state of mind: my father was 83, after all, and I'm dead proud of my son and see him often. So the pills might not cure, but they do work.
Secondly, I could really use therapy and I think it would be a real cure, unlike the pills. Unfortunately, if I asked my GP he'd just refer me back to local mental health services where I'd see psychiatrists who, in my extensive experience, would just prescribe more pills. The waiting list for real therapy in South London is up to two years for a case like mine. I can't wait two years. A friend who's been in private therapy fro two years (which I can't afford) found a therapist for me but I can't afford it and anyway what I need is peace of mind whcih she clearly hasn't achieved.
I could write a lot more about my loneliness etc. but if you've read this far you've probably had enough.
I'd appreciate any feedback.

 

[ms_P]

I'll take their word that there's no chemical reason for my depression. I've been a heavy (or sometimes light) user of weed, many drugs and alcohol (which I started on seriously at 13, though I've been dry for the last 20 years with a couple of relapses. I'm 52 now). Now it's just benzos and anti-depressants.
I have 2 problems with their ideas: firstly, I wake up every morning feeling terrible and I have to get to work and frankly I don't think I could get through a difficult day without some kind of medication (I'm a teacher). I've only started back on anti-depressants the last 18 months or so, so it's not the job. I know there are external factors that have brought on my crises (the last couple of years, my father dying and my son going away to university). But none of these really explain my terrible state of mind: my father was 83, after all, and I'm dead proud of my son and see him often. So the pills might not cure, but they do work.
Secondly, I could really use therapy and I think it would be a real cure, unlike the pills. Unfortunately, if I asked my GP he'd just refer me back to local mental health services where I'd see psychiatrists who, in my extensive experience, would just prescribe more pills. The waiting list for real therapy in South London is up to two years for a case like mine. I can't wait two years. A friend who's been in private therapy fro two years (which I can't afford) found a therapist for me but I can't afford it and anyway what I need is peace of mind whcih she clearly hasn't achieved.
I could write a lot more about my loneliness etc. but if you've read this far you've probably had enough.
I'd appreciate any feedback.

Hi.

"Now it's just benzos and anti-depressants."
Do you have any idea how depressed you can get from central nervous system depressants like benzo's???

Trust me,...they are a wolf in sheeps clothing.
I would get off of them asap, if I were you. They are false hope and cheaters at best.

I can't afford a first class therapist either...but that does not mean there aren't intelligent and caring people out there available to us!
No one's going to come knocking at our door offering help. It's up to us to sort through what's available and what suits our needs.
Good luck to you.

 

[Apotheosis]

I have 2 problems with their ideas: firstly, I wake up every morning feeling terrible

I'm the same; I wake up feeling like shit - Chain smoking cigarettes & being on major tranquillisers; is probably the most likely reason why.

personally I think that most conditions are threefold - physical/mental & spiritual - Some people do seem best treated by 'drugs' - But I do firmly think that the majority of people could be far better treated by other more holistic & therapeutic means. i.e. - proper psychological help, caring, healing, restful, trusting & therapeutic environments, ect.

The ideas I generally concluded is that MH 'conditions' are very much primarily 'caused' & exasperated by environmental & psychological circumstances & factors, & certain traumas; & this would appear to be backed up by research. It would follow that the best approaches would also be 'environmental' & psychological; even for those requiring meds; it would be better to pursue, & exhaust other more therapeutic methods first; & augment meds with other more therapeutic approaches; if meds were deemed necessary.

But you are right - we don't have access to the alternatives. What do we do if we want to try comprehensive 'alternatives' to meds? We can't; such is the system, society, & the Western Bio-Medical model - that for 99.9% of us - it's meds (forced if they are refused) - & precious little else.

That's what I take issue with, as do many others who see something very wrong in the general 'care' & treatment of the 'mentally ill' in our Western societies.

 

[trainwreck]

apotheosis buddy,you can show a million vids about meds, thearpy an whatever,but what you going to do without them , your an addictive person you took every recky drug why, you didnt winge at the dealers like you do at the med company,s you have had a lifetime off med abuse one way or another ,the difference is you dont pay for them now.you are like me ill an fucked we need meds , all these weird religions an cults are a load of bollocks the more you read up the worse you get,do i have to say it ,a little knowledge is a dangerouse thing. its no use looking to blaim enyone were ill except it, lifes a bummer an that just about sum,s it up.

 

[Apotheosis]

apotheosis buddy,you can show a million vids about meds, thearpy an whatever,but what you going to do without them , your an addictive person you took every recky drug why, you didnt winge at the dealers like you do at the med company,s you have had a lifetime off med abuse one way or another ,the difference is you dont pay for them now.you are like me ill an fucked we need meds , all these weird religions an cults are a load of bollocks the more you read up the worse you get,do i have to say it ,a little knowledge is a dangerouse thing. its no use looking to blaim enyone were ill except it, lifes a bummer an that just about sum,s it up.

Through following a recovery path (from both addiction & MH) I have made a lot of progress & dealt with a lot. I feel more confident this year; than ever, about being successful, with the long term goal of becoming medication free - it can be done & people do it.

If I had 'accepted my fate'; not got educated about certain things, & not tried certain avenues of assistance - then I would either now be dead - or in a very worse position.

As it stands I take a very low dose of one med. Had I followed medical advice to a 'T' - then I would be on high doses of anti psychotics; anti-depressants, & most likely sleepers, as well as other stuff. That isn't the case. Had I done nothing about some of the problems I've had, then I would still be sinking 12 pints of strong larger every weekend night, spending every night in the pub, smoking large amounts of cannabis; sniffing coke, dropping E's, & doing all the stuff I used to do - I'm not today; I've been 'T-Total' coming up 2 years again; & been following a total abstinent recovery path for close to 8 years (with a slight slip). It has been more than worth it; for the amount of work I have put in.

AT 17 when I was first sectioned; & before then; I had the views I had now about orthodox psychiatry - it was just that I was un-knowledgeable about the research & current 'alternative' views. I am very glad for educating myself on these subjects; & I wish I had done sooner. Had I been more informed; I doubt I would have the dependence I have today on this present med. But like I say - I have some confidence that it will not always be the case that I am on this (or any) med.

Maybe a 'little knowledge is a dangerous thing' - but what about becoming properly informed? Governments, big pharma, multi conglomerates, & other mechanisms of control & power; don't want anyone to think too much, or display too much critical thought, independence, or intelligence. 'They' want us to be a dumbed down, unquestioning, apathetic, & obedient population - I don't; & as far as possible; I won't be Dancing to their tune.

 

[Apotheosis]

a little knowledge is a dangerouse thing.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.

Isaac Asimov

The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.

Henri Bergson

 

[jamesdean]

I have just read through this thread in a lot of detail and though I was going to reply yesterday I didnt because I hadnt looked at the videos.

I was going to say yesterday Ihave said this before, I spent yeras n years trying therapy, dealing with my depression without mediacation, I really couldnt see how anti depressents worked, Life was so raw even with therapy my mental pain was so difficult to deal with but yet with ad's my life has been so much smoother, theres an underlying warm feeling in my life that was neevr there before, on the whole I can deal with things better, I can overcome things much quicker, Though they have been no way a cure for my depression n proberly they havent dealt with the depression it self its the diference between living on a knifes edge all the time or having some calm in your life.

I have just managed to get myself off beta blockers but my anxiety has shotup and I'm having to use muind tools to get through some of the time but ah the psych wanted me off them.

The abilify I can get by most of the timewithout it but I need to know its in the draw for good measure in case of a really difficult time ( just like a smoker needs cigarettes).

When i did do my one day at college the first thing I read "is there such a thing has mental health" which threw alsorts of things at me to look at, though I dont doudt after nearly 40 years of dealing with something that isnt the norm, I would say yes.

I accept my diagnoses because I've certainly had enough of a difficult time with psych's telling me its all my own fault, that when I die and I tell my story in heaven if some of these psych''''s have been in my life they will be ashamed of the difficult times they have put me through when my lifes been far worse than they will believe, my gp says seeing just how well I have responded to ad's tells him how bad my depression is but the psych disagreeded with that n said hes just a gp.

For me personally I have to argue that mediacation is right for me also because each time I try to deny my health staus it just brings it back to the fore everytime, I do think abot the placebo effect, n I know that my meds arnt placebo but then theres times whn I think if they are its a bloody good affect.

 

[trainwreck]

apho, why do you keep quoting all these wise men a mistic nuts, its all bull shit .of course you feel stronger now your not downing 20 pints of booze an countless spliffs , which on your own admistion got through a bag full not so long ago. if i still drank a bottle of brandy took 10 loz an 225 venlafaxine i would be dead,you took like me a life saveing disition.your bound to feel a tad better,but you can an do flog the computer all day looking to drag down the corperations that are keeping you alive , all being not how you want to live ,but alive not DEAD,shit i hate meds an all that go with them . but i dont have a choise. ive tried hipnosis load of bollocks . therapy , the same ,some people are born to need meds like blood pressure ,diabetics,heart probs. why not mental probs .all these gurus are 1 man like you, do you think they would listen to you so why listen to them.have you seen a lot of those save yourself from depression adds,some nob up a mountain in a £1000,000 retreat on your money ,after all your years abuse just tell me how you think you going to have a normal life. i just finished a 8 week zoloft trial, i stay on it not because im cured but a tad better , i go out walking ,fishing , with me dogs , keep my marine system running .even the wife gives me £5 for a couple of beers with my buddies. all the meds a locked away so i dont self med,i do all these things an i dont no how , i can pass out , spew my guts an feel total shit , but i do it an i do it on meds because thats all there is for me . i dont fight it im to fucked to do that .if i had a better choise i think i would have found it after 30 years

 

[Apotheosis]

apho, why do you keep quoting all these wise men a mistic nuts, its all bull shit .

Is it? You quoted some diabolical saying at me 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' - which frankly I think is bullshit - unless it's referring to people having 'a little knowledge' - & meaning they should educate themselves & get more, because it's dangerous to be ignorant.

You can find perspectives that contradict most things; I don't think there is any subject which has only one fixed view.

I am not going to feel bad, or ashamed for using my brain & my intellect, to educate myself & be the best I can be. I want to better myself & use as much as possible the means at my disposal.

I have a friend who is unable to stop drinking. I have had to distance myself from him to a degree. He is a good man - but he is destroying his life. He gets upset that I have a wide range & use of the English language & comprehensive vocabulary. He gets upset that I can debate things in an intelligent way. I have gone on at him to educate himself with more basic English - he can't read or write properly, he doesn't have a good grasp of the English language - despite being English himself! Such levels of education are common nowadays. He tries to make me feel bad because I use my brain & want to be educated - I get the same from you.

It almost seems that there is a trend; that people want to pride themselves on stupidity. I don't see the pride in being uneducated or remaining ignorant of things we could learn - & I'm certainly not going to stop trying to gain knowledge & educate myself because you say - 'it's all bullshit'! - Come to a deep understanding of these subjects yourself & then maybe you'd be in a position to tell me it's bullshit.

of course you feel stronger now your not downing 20 pints of booze an countless spliffs , which on your own admistion got through a bag full not so long ago.

I dunno - 8 years is a long time really.

but you can an do flog the computer all day looking to drag down the corperations that are keeping you alive , all being not how you want to live ,but alive not DEAD,shit i hate meds an all that go with them . but i dont have a choise. ive tried hipnosis load of bollocks . therapy , the same ,some people are born to need meds like blood pressure ,diabetics,heart probs. why not mental probs .

LOL Corporations aren't keeping me alive - they are destroying the planet.

Diabetes cannot be accurately compared to a MH condition - you wouldn't compare diabetes to schizophrenia! i.e. A doctor would not say to a Diabetic patient that his diabetes was like schizophrenia!

One is a purely physical condition - the other has never been proved to be.

all these gurus are 1 man like you, do you think they would listen to you so why listen to them.

I am going to listen far more to someone who is highly intelligent & educated; & who has done the work & thinking into certain fields - over someone who hasn't. It isn't a case of 'these gurus are 1 man like you' - no man is an island - there are certain traditions of thought & fields of study - I am unaware of any member of the 'intelligentsia' who has ever worked in isolation.

have you seen a lot of those save yourself from depression adds,some nob up a mountain in a £1000,000 retreat on your money ,after all your years abuse just tell me how you think you going to have a normal life.

No I haven't seen any of those ads - have you got a link or 'U Tube' video to one of them?

I have a very 'normal' & full life. As full & normal as it can be.

i dont fight it im to fucked to do that .if i had a better choise i think i would have found it after 30 years

It is entirely your choice how you address your 'MH condition' - I haven't once told you; nor anyone else what they should or shouldn't be doing.

 

[trainwreck]

on the back foot abit now apho. got you fired , hey you never mentioned that bag of blow you wasted the other night in your post , an dont twist , the little knowledge bit, as if im makeing out people are stupid ,thats a cheap shot.there are hundreds of crank cures on the net so why ask me ,just putch in depression an they fly at you an finish with it only cost,s$100,you believe in what you like meds are hear an thats what we have. so stop them if you hate them so much, im sure one of you mistic,s could help.

 

[Apotheosis]

on the back foot abit now apho. got you fired , hey you never mentioned that bag of blow you wasted the other night in your post , an dont twist , the little knowledge bit, as if im makeing out people are stupid ,thats a cheap shot.

I have no idea what your talking about? I have shared in a number of places that around 2 years ago I relapsed for one day on cannabis. I have been T-Total again since. It is the only time I have smoked cannabis in 8 years. Your trying to make things out that I'm somehow taking drugs when I feel like it, or that long term addiction recovery is somehow not a big deal. You can poo poo it all you want. Sobriety is something I am very proud of & justifiably so.

The simple truth is that the majority of people are incredibly stupid.

there are hundreds of crank cures on the net so why ask me ,just putch in depression an they fly at you an finish with it only cost,s$100,you believe in what you like meds are hear an thats what we have. so stop them if you hate them so much, im sure one of you mistic,s could help.

I have been helped immeasurably by 'alternative' means - That's why I'm in long term recovery & why I enjoy a lot of well being; while being on a very low dose of one med; despite the foibles & 'off days' - which I cope with fine.

I have had a psychiatrist appointment this morning. We discussed openly the situation with the meds. They are in agreement to me trying a very slow reduction over a long period of time, they were supportive & helpful, & they said I show insight & understanding. Long term I do hope to successfully get off the meds; I know it's possible; I know many people who have had long periods of totally med free recovery; & I'm confident that one day I will be one of them too.

If you believe that all you have is meds - carry on believing it - it doesn't effect me.