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Man with MH due to be executed next week

Scared with BPD

Scared with BPD

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
362
Location
Within Four Walls
I know that there has recently been a "call to arms" to complain to the BBC about a comedienne making thoughtless comments about patients she supposedly cared for when she was a psychiatric nurse.

Are we all aware that a man is due to be executed in China next Tuesday for being some kind of drug mule, albeit, his parents have stated that he has suffered with MH for many years?

I know that Gordon Brown has got involved but just wondered if anyone else had any strong views on this? It could be that I haven't been well enough to check all the messages on the forum in the last couple of days, so apologies if I am just reiterating what other people have flagged up.

In my opinion, this is something more than complaining to the BBC, that we should as a forum all get behind and try and do something about!

Take care
Claire x
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
Yes, it's very wrong - but who genuinely cares?

Apart from people that experience these things - the general public perception is callous.

There is also the separation of issues. The argument can be used that all crime is motivated by people that aren't well. & prisons in this country have far more mentally ill offenders than apparently sane ones, anyway. In fact most prison systems do.

I don't know the details of this case? It would be seen by many as separate issues. Not maybe that he was ill; had diminished responsibility & committed the crime (if he did) because of illness, but rather committed the crime despite his illness? do you see where I am coming from? Maybe his 'illness' had nothing to do with it - that he genuinely knew what he was doing; & that is the risk he took, & that is the consequences. Unfair? Yes, but the way of the World. Maybe he is genuinely guilty & knew full well what he was doing? You must admit; illness or not - it's pretty stupid to get caught with that much Heroin in China!

If I committed a crime - I would be tried by the criminal justice system - I would most likely, if the crime was serious enough, & it was deemed that it wasn't to do with my 'illness'; to then serve time in a prison. I have seen this with a lot of people that have had a 'psychiatric' history. When is insanity a defence & when isn't it?

What also are the consequences for such a defence? This is an important question. You can often spend longer in a psychiatric institution on the grounds of being 'criminally insane', than if you had served time in the prison system. Some people never get out of the system once they are involved with forensic psychiatry. There is also the fact that there are many long term inmates in Broadmoor, Rampton & all of the highly secure psychiatric hospitals that have never been convicted of any crime whatsoever. They end up caught up in the system; & due to certain circumstances end up there. It's all WRONG.

It can also be very well argued that the psychiatric system is far far worse than the prison system; especially if we look at secure hospitals.

There is also the point, although I digress; that the psychiatric system is a part of the criminal Justice system - (a subject that could be gone into at great depth, & one that raises the point that psychiatry is a social control & seen as a criminal justice issue & little to nothing to do with any kind of genuine or therapeutic care).

The questions raised in this case - & the potential headache for people that could do something about it all - open up a potential minefield.

If there is action taken, or that could be taken. Then what are the outcomes?

1. He is tried on the basis that his crime was not the result of his mental illness & either imprisoned on compassionate grounds; or executed. Spending either the rest of his life or decades in the Chinese Prison system.

2. He is tried on the basis of being mentally ill, & spends the rest of his life in the Chinese psychiatric system.

Given all 3 scenarios - life long in hospital, life long in prison, or shot. Given the circumstances - I would rather take those outcomes in reverse order! Wouldn't you?
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
It is wrong & sad.

I know the media position - I trust nothing they say.

I don't think his family testimony can be accurately relied on either.

Was he really that stupid & naive? & genuinely thought that he was making a hit record? Come'on.

I have been in some very severely psychotic states. There was still a valve, still a part of me that had some idea of things - however 'deluded' I was.

Not to sound callous - I would like him to be pardoned & sent back to England. But realistically - what can any of us do? - Gordon is writing letters apparently - I hope his spelling & grammar is better in them than in the letters he sent to the families of the War Dead.
 
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rasselas

Guest
...

Poor Akmal Shaikh - if only he'd been a nice white middle class boy...

He's certainly had an interesting few years in his life. Of course it is appalling that the Chinese authorities are taking such a hard-line. But then, it is Post-Maoist China, not Europe and it's a whole different ball-game if you want to play it cheeky...

Some may find this tasteless, but I'm going to offer my prediction. Akmal Shaikh will be spared by the Chinese. They will not kill him. This will be because of political expediency. It happens all the time. You capture a westerner. You say you're going to kill them. The ambassadors roll into town. The room is prepared. The curtains are drawn. Deals are made.

The powers of the world sit around and make deals, bargaining over a man's soul. It's the darker side of international relations.

China are looking for a bit of good press after the Copenhagen fiasco... everyone's saying they scuppered the deal. Not that the deal on the table was worth any more than recycled paper it was written on...

So China won't help save all 7 billion of us. But hey, we'll save one person. It's a start, isn't it?

Good luck to Akmal Shaikh and peace to his family and friends. Maybe he was so 'vulnerable' he didn't know he was in China, he didn't know heroin was a risky substance to smuggle, he didn't know the Chinese authorities kept very close tabs on every visitor from the West.

They won't kill him. He'll rot for a while in a Chinese prison. Then when he's no longer of any political use, home he will come. Then he'll make a fortune on Richard and Judy, writing his memoir, and probably finally realising his dream through cutting a one-off disc with Simon Cowell.
 
O

Op.cit

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
114
The story was a short feature on Channel 4 news at seven recently. I would be fairly confident that the Chinese are not going to execute a Uk national. The Chinese are very protective of their sovereignty but equally they hate bad press abroad.

I predict a commutation. A return to the UK after several years wouldn't be out of the question.

Then again all the China bashing by the UK and the US after Copenhagen wont have helped his cause.

Certainly any letters written wont hurt.

Regards,
Op.cit
 
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Op.cit

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
114
Mark.uk

Looks like we were typing at the same time and writing the same thing.

I fear Gary McKinnon will soon be on a plane. Why we ever passed laws with out the requisite element of reciprocity I dont know.
 
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rasselas

Guest
Mark.uk

Looks like we were typing at the same time and writing the same thing.
Yes, I spotted that. Uncanny!

I fear Gary McKinnon will soon be on a plane. Why we ever passed laws with out the requisite element of reciprocity I dont know.
I do. We are in a master-slave relationship with the USA. The fullness of Fate's reversal is nearly complete.

Our government is already busy building their database of 'domestic terrorists': CND, End Poverty, socialists, anti-capitalists (neo-con capitalism)... the spirit of McCarthy has reached our shores.

Are you or have you ever been... an independent thinker?

The USA was originated as a revolutionary alternative to the European ways of elitism, class, colonialism, oppression, injustice, militarism...

They've ended up in many ways as Old Europe II - Bigger, Stronger, Bolder.

Now our leaders have to sniff and creep around their arses in increasingly cringe-worthy ways.

And when they say jump, we not only ask - how high? We also await instructions on when we are permitted to land back down.

Land of Hope and Glory....:clap::clap::clap:
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
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Apotheosis

Guest
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rasselas

Guest
If I committed a crime - I would be tried by the criminal justice system - I would most likely, if the crime was serious enough, & it was deemed that it wasn't to do with my 'illness'; to then serve time in a prison. I have seen this with a lot of people that have had a 'psychiatric' history. When is insanity a defence & when isn't it?
I may be wrong but (other than the McNaghten rule) I don't know the name of it but I believe the case they measure the insanity plea against in Britain is the old one of the woman that was so deluded she believed her baby was fire-wood and threw her onto the fire.

I think this is generally for an insanity plea to succeed it's got to involve such a distortion of reality that it shocks the public right deep to the marrow of their bones.

Of course, anything particularly exceptionally sadistic or perverse is going to be seen as an acceptable insane plea. But I think that generally if you can't demonstrate that you are/were that deluded - in other words, you can still show that you knew the difference between right and wrong because you were still able to engage with 'reality' - you'll be considered as fit for trial.

But like I say, that's only my armchair Rumpole view on the matter.
 
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Apotheosis

Guest
I think that you may be right. My old solicitor recounted a case to me many years ago - a young man had murdered his girlfriend while under the influence of LSD - his defence was that he was temporarily insane when he took the drug - the judge ruled that it was his choice to take it & sent him to prison.
 
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rasselas

Guest
...

the insanity plea is the most abused plea!

in that case I agree with the judge - and how dare that man blacken LSD in such a despicably self-serving way!
 
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