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Is The Anti-Psychotic Drug Clozaril A Silent Killer???

NicoretteGummed

NicoretteGummed

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I'm known on this Forum for having if not a pro-med reputation then an anti-anti med reputation.

However I draw the line when it comes to Haloperidol and Clozaril.

Clozaril is touted as a wonderdrug for Treatment resistant Schizophrenia by many in the Psychiatric profession but just a quick glance on the Internet shows you how deadly this drug can be be.

It can cause Tachycardia, Brachycardia, and Sudden Death Syndrome.

It also causes a decrease in the production of red blood cells which is why it requires monitoring.

It also causes massive weight gain.

People I know who are on it have huge problems with Panic Attacks and Anxiety.

At the very least it's supposed to stop voices in their tracks but everybody I know who's been on it have continued to have voices.

I was almost put on it by my Hospital Consultant when on a Section 3 last year but thanks to the persuasiveness of my parents my then consultant saw reason and put me on an atypical Antipychotic-Amisulpiride in conjunction with the Quitiapine that I was already on; and this combination worked for me.

I'm so grateful to my parents, the hospital staff, and my Consultant for not putting me on Clozaril which I think would have literally sent me insane and would have eventually killed me off.

It's no wonder Clozaril has such a high success rate in eliminating Schizophrenia; as in my view it does this by killing the patients who are on it!!!.
 
Lone_wanderer

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NG, I spent four weeks in hospital last year undergoing Clozapine titration and then around two weeks in the community on it. It made no difference to my paranoia and the side effects were horrendous, this was mainly due to my making a nuisance of myself with the crisis team. I had every side effect going except for the immune response. The worst for me was not being able to do a proper poo for days at a time which was really painful. Most of the time when they monitored my heart rate it was racing like a fucked clock.

In the end I came off it currently taking Olanzapine which I'm gradually cutting sown to 10mg where I'll maintain myself. I know some people who Clozapine has sorted out though.
 
NicoretteGummed

NicoretteGummed

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Thought CPU and lllMElll would have a field day on this one but hey maybe it wasn't meant to be eh???

Oh well..........:unsure:
 

cpuusage

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Thought CPU and lllMElll would have a field day on this one but hey maybe it wasn't meant to be eh???

Oh well..........:unsure:
I'm Not anti-meds or anti-psychiatry. As far I'm concerned (or care) people can take what drugs they like & as many drugs as they want. In an ideal World there would be every class & range of psychiatric (& street) Drug freely available to anyone that wants them. & if people want locking up, forced drugs & all the rest of what goes on, then that should also be their free choice & they should be freely allowed to sign up for it all. Maybe also build a few secure hospitals for the people that want to be in them as well.

But what I do take issue with is for the people that don't want all that, should also have the free choice of access to comprehensive psychosocial care & proper help & support, & the free choice of not to be forced psychiatric drugs. I've met a high profile service user that is on Clozaril, & who thinks that everyone should be on it. I can't be bothered arguing with all that. What is at issue for me, is people having access to impartial information on all these areas & different treatment & understanding approaches; if they want to access them. Give people choice.

In regards to all neuroleptic drugs, some may be less dangerous than others, but all of them carry potentially very severe health risks. I'm not really sure that such drugs should be allowed to be used at all. At the minimum there should be full disclosure about what the actual risks are in taking them, as fully informed choice as possible, & genuine choice in what treatment approaches people can access. After all that; if people want these drugs; fair enough, give people as many drugs as they want. But within a comprehensive framework, give people a genuine choice! FFS!
 
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|||ME|||

|||ME|||

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“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” Dawkins

_____


I just go a lot more drugs further than you NG. At the heart of it all you agree with me :)
 
McMurphy's Ghost

McMurphy's Ghost

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3 January 2012

Dear Mr Cameron, Prime Minister of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland,

The known dangers of Clozapine - why is it permitted to be used in
the UK?

I am making a request for urgent investigation into the known
dangers of Clozapine.

Yet it is also deemed to be protective of people who would be
suicidal.

Could it not therefore be limited to people who ARE suicidal or
MIGHT be suicidal rather than being prescribed to any people who
have been given two antipsychotics and their "schizophrenia /
schizophrenia like psychoses" have not improved - or have had
unacceptable side-effects - on either a typical or atypical
antipsychotic?

Some people can be FORCED to have Clozapine against their wishes
because they are under Section of the Mental Health Act 1983 /2007.
They have the opportunity to object under the 3 month rule.

But if a Second Opinion [SOAD] decides that the Responsible
Clinician is correct, then the patient is powerless to resist
forced medication, is that not so?

The Care Quality Commission oversees such SOAD reports, but do they
ever step in and overturn the SOADs and state that the patients
should be allowed to choose NOT to be medicated against their
wishes?

I have studied medical literature available on the internet which
explains that schizophrenia is not easily determined by laboratory
tests or by scans, and it is partly determined by observation and
by response of the patient. If that is so, is there not a real
danger that misdiagnoses of patients occur? And a patient, in the
alternative, have a different condition, and who might actually be
damaged by having antipsychotic pharmaceutical administration?

How many misdiagnoses of patients have there been in the UK in the
last few years?

How many patients in the UK have died as a consequence of Clozapine
or as a contributory factor?

How many patients in the UK have had heart problems in consequence
of Clozapine or other antipsychotics?

How many patients in the UK have had agranulocytosis as a
consequence of Clozapine?

In the National Clozapine Registry, how many patients have been
registered as having had adverse reactions and must NEVER be given
Clozapine again?

How many patients with KNOWN pre-existing Sinus Tachycardia and
Right Atrial Enlargement have been enrolled into the Clozapine
National Registry regardless that Clozapine has been known to cause
heart problems?

I place some links found on the internet - but there are many more
besides -

http://www.mendeley.com/research/sudden-...

CAT.INIST...

Reasons for discontinuing clozapine: matched, case...
Reasons for discontinuing clozapine: matched, case–control
comparison with risperidone long-acting injection
David M. Taylor, MSc, PhD, MRPharmS

Medicines Information - Evidence Search - Search Engine for Evidence in Health and Social Care...

AOL Search...

http://www.the-injury-lawyer-directory.c...

http://bipolar.about.com/od/clozaril/a/c...

http://www.schizophrenia.com:8080/jivefo...

http://www.pharma.us.novartis.com/produc...

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/Post...

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

The last-named url is particularly significant in that it is the
issue of Catherine Bell who was found to have died in consequence
of taking Clozapine:

Catherine Bell inquest | coroner says clozapine 'significant
factor...
15 Dec 2011 ... A MOTHER believes her daughter would still be alive
if she had not been prescribed a powerful anti-psychotic
drug.Catherine Bell, 39, died ...

www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Mother......

People are seemingly at a significant risk of being prescribed
Clozapine and I petition the Government and Parliament to get an
urgent national moratorium on the safety of ALL antipsychotics. If
there is a national debate between doctors, nurses, psychiatrists,
psychologists, approved social workers, healthcare professionals,
and the general public at large, maybe we could have a more open
society where mental health becomes a very important factor in our
national conscience.

For everyone has mental health and it is important to protect our
mental health. We are fortunate that Government and Parliament care
about our health.

Mental Health forms such a vital part of the Health of the Nation.

I request that there be a Big Debate nationally to discuss openly
all mental health issues and the carers and relatives of people who
might suffer from mental health issues either as a one-off episode
or as a longer term condition.

Until now it has been the province of professionals, but under your
leadership and governance you and your ministers are rolling back
the state and giving power back to the people who elected you.

People need to be empowered to determine their own fates but they
MUST be given a choice as to whether or not they wish to take a
drug as potentially dangerous as Clozapine. If they are aware of
all the risks, and still choose to take it, then that is their
choice, but at present there are people who are powerless to resist
the might of the state when they are subjected to COMPULSORY
MEDICATION by dint of the Mental Health Act 1983/2007.

I wish to petition Parliament in Westminster and also the European
Parliament and the EMEA because I believe that people must be
allowed their voices.

Thank you very much for your kind understanding,

Yours sincerely,

[first name removed] [last name removed]
 
NicoretteGummed

NicoretteGummed

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You know your do something right Mac when I of all people like your Post ;)

And it was a brilliant post by the way.
 
|||ME|||

|||ME|||

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Thought CPU and lllMElll would have a field day on this one but hey maybe it wasn't meant to be eh???
Bless you, you seemed disappointed. So I'll chime in properly :)

What I'd point out is that this drug passed the same clinical trials and efficacy and safety tests all the other drugs did. It was introduced in the early 1970s in Europe (passed trials in 1972) and then withdrawn in 1975 - voluntarily! Which means the agencies that people are lead to believe protect their interests that should have been preventing this abusive substance being offered as medicine or forced on people didn't ban it. Those agencies don't exist and work as a lot of people think they do. It was then trialled in 1989 - after numerous problems were already known and it had already been withdrawn many years ago - and passed those trials!!!

I'd use this opportunity to say when I criticise other drugs, this is how biased and lax the trials and standards are. They allow many harmful substances through, because the businesses that profit from the product being tested fund/conduct the clinical trials. And those trials are hugely structurally biased;

  • information from negative trials is routinely with-held, stacking the deck. If I did coin tosses and could remove bad data I could make it look like I had a double headed coin. Big problem. Click link in my sig. and join the lets make clinical trials transparent campaign please :
  • efficacy is only observed efficacy (so anything sedating has good chances) even if it makes you feel worse
  • negative effects of drugs are routinely downgraded and under recorded
  • side effects and quality of life are disregarded - reduce "symptoms" you pass even if you f**k people up and make their life worse overall
  • most trials measure efficacy at mitigating withdrawal effects instead of efficacy helping with the actual experiences themselves
  • they only measure short term effects (usually over 6 - 12 weeks) yet are passed safe for life on those tests
  • on top of that many have been conducted in overtly corrupt ways - i.e went beyond all the above :eek:

On the basis of those trials a drug goes from being a "drug" to a "medicine". Like Clozapine did. Shows there's a huge problem really.

I'd also point out as an atypical antipsychotic, it shares a lot of properties with the other ones. It is more similar to them than it is different. It is particularly nasty compared to them in some ways, I don't disagree with that at all, but what you're witnessing is an atypical antipsychotic that goes harder or is worse, more than is a fundamentally different type of drug to the others, it's in the same class (though it does have some differences). I'd say the others aren't quite as destructively harmful to those who receive them (as a group) in many ways as Clozapine, rather than they are helpful (to the group) - I believe they are all destructively harmful drugs (to any population that receives them). Most of your post imo applies to everything in that class of drug.

The NHS prescribes this. When I say antipsychotics are harmful, the NHS prescribing it and the clinical tests being passed must now be devalued in your own mind as a defence, surely? So using them is out the window isn't it? Which means now you'll have to come up with a better critique than me being in psychosis or high because I don't accept those arguments does it not? Maybe you'll have to engage these arguments, as Clozapine (which some people think is awesome) has a lot in common with a lot of other drugs you think are awesome and keep telling me I'm being hysterical about ;)

____


That more like it? :hug1:
 
McMurphy's Ghost

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The Rethink sponsored Schizophrenia Commission Report had 14 main recommendations. One of these was that more people should be routinely "offered" Clozaril. They complained it wasn't being used more.

I think this shows what a disgusting organisation Rethink really is.....as if this wasn't already totally obvious....
 
|||ME|||

|||ME|||

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Another bit of information too:

Clozapine has been notorious for withdrawal problems (effects and syndromes) since the 1970s at least (I've seen references from 1974 talking about it in my reading that I can remember). It's probably the only one where withdrawal problems have actually been looked into. It's not just the worst/one of the worst to be on, it's the worst/one of the worst to get off. Both in terms of how often and how severe withdrawal problems are.
 
|||ME|||

|||ME|||

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Quetiapine and Olanzapine are similar to it.

When someone says BS, this is why, just copied and pasted from wikipedia, they are different drugs, but have very similar actions as you can see:

Clozapine binds to serotonergic as well as dopamine receptors and is also a strong antagonist at different subtypes of adrenergic, cholinergic and histaminergic receptors

Quetiapine is a dopamine, serotonin, and adrenergic antagonist, and a potent antihistamine with clinically negligible anticholinergic properties

Olanzapine binds to dopamine, serotonin, muscarinic, adrenergic and histamine receptor types.

________

fwiw, there are reports to health authorities of agranulocytosis with Quetiapine too. Not at the same rate as Clozapine though.

It should be remembered that because Clozapine is an older drug, many of the problems with newer drugs similar to it (i.e. the whole class of antipsychotics and especially those atypical antipsychotics most similar to it) will still exist but not be as well known or recognised. These drugs really aren't all that different. Otherwise they wouldn't be the same "class". Takes a long political struggle to bring these issues to light and get the stuff we all know actually brought into mainstream knowledge and practice. Look how long people have known about Clozapine and they still force it on people.
 
NicoretteGummed

NicoretteGummed

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Another bit of information too:

Clozapine has been notorious for withdrawal problems (effects and syndromes) since the 1970s at least (I've seen references from 1974 talking about it in my reading that I can remember). It's probably the only one where withdrawal problems have actually been looked into. It's not just the worst/one of the worst to be on, it's the worst/one of the worst to get off. Both in terms of how often and how severe withdrawal problems are.
They call it rebound psychosis.
 
|||ME|||

|||ME|||

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Yeah, that's a big problem. There's a ton of physical stuff on record with this lot too with withdrawal effects and syndromes, can make people very physically ill and go on for a long time as well. Especially after higher doses for extended periods and coming off too quickly.
 
|||ME|||

|||ME|||

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Still "marketing" it aggressively though ... big pharma and psychiatry ... by "marketing" I mean being corrupt criminals, harming old people to make money ...

Teva to Pay $27.6 Million to Settle Improper Payment Allegations - WSJ.com

The U.S. business of Teva Pharmaceuticals Industries Ltd. and a subsidiary have agreed to pay $27.6 million to settle allegations of improper payments, the Justice Department said Tuesday.

Teva unit Ivax LLC in 2003 allegedly paid a doctor in Illinois to switch his patients to a generic antipsychotic medication the business produced, according to the Justice Department...

The physician, Michael J. Reinstein, received payments, as well as a Miami vacation for his family and several employees, under an illegal consulting agreement with Ivax, the department said...

The drug in question, generic clozapine, is considered a drug of last resort, particularly for elderly patients, and has the potential for several serious side effects, such as seizures, inflammation of the heart and decreases in white blood cells, according to the Justice Department.

Dr. Reinstein eventually became the biggest prescriber of the drug, including for a number of elderly patients, prosecutors said...
 
NicoretteGummed

NicoretteGummed

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Not to beat around the bush I totally agree-Clozaril's a nasty drug and definitely a silent killer.

I've known a lot of people whom have become obese on Clozaril and an equal amount that have Heart Attacks on it.

The stuff's simply ghastly imo and definitely should be banned.
 
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