Intuition versus Logic

Poopy Doll

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#1
I hope this topic is of interest. I am being told by a spiritual teacher that Intuition is greater than Logic. But the Intuition is like a still, small voice I can barely discern and it resembles Worry, so how could I know the difference?? Plus, learning to have Critical Thinking with Logic is so important for mental health patients.
 
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#2
From my own experience, you need both to work together if you are based on one of them too much or leave one alone, it will cause imbalance. In a simple explanation mean logical is there to distinguish between good and bad intuition. As you said yourself, logic is important to have a critical thinking. I would never say intuition is greater than logic, neither opposite but that is just my own opinion.
 
Kerome

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#3
From a spiritual point of view, Intuition is very important because it can function as a window to the higher self, allowing you to receive hints. But you are right that it is difficult to work with, you need to develop clear vision first, a component of which is logical thinking. You also need to address desire, aversion and deluded thoughts, which can easily distort intuition.

It really depends on your level of progress. If your mind is quiet, developing intuition is easier, but I think most mental health patients will have difficulty just reaching the stage of clear vision. Things like abuse or emotional highs and lows can put major obstacles in your way which most normals don't need to cope with.
 
Jaminacaranda

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#4
I have no idea what people mean by 'intuition'. Sometimes I think it simply equates to that reservation you sometimes feel when you start talking to a guy and he is being ever so polite and friendly but you think 'Nope -don't go there'. Is that 'intuition'? Or simply the 'logic' of experience? Or simply the unblinking direct stare?

As for 'logic' - in it's purest form it is entirely mathematical and has little bearing on how you experience real life. Similarly, I don't understand how 'critical thinking' is defined in this context since it is something I was asked to apply when reading Kant and Hume and Descartes when I was doing my degree, and I'm not at all sure how it might help you to deal with people who abuse you. I'm happy to be enlightened and try to understand the definition of these terms and their relevance.I can accept that perhaps they just don't apply to me.

Maybe I'm just a 'normal'.
 
Kerome

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#5
I don't think we were talking about abuse at all. If that's what you are thinking about, then neither intuition nor logic are that useful as a first port of call. I would suggest maybe psychological therapies for processing abuse memories, I know there are some.
 
Poopy Doll

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#6
I hope this topic is of interest. I am being told by a spiritual teacher that Intuition is greater than Logic. But the Intuition is like a still, small voice I can barely discern and it resembles Worry, so how could I know the difference?? Plus, learning to have Critical Thinking with Logic is so important for mental health patients.
There were no examples of abuse implied. It is merely the fact that the yoga teacher has made a big deal about Intuition being greater than Logic. He put a whole chapter in a book about it. Like we are all missing the boat because we make decisions using logic instead of intuition. Let me give an example. Say you are deciding whether or not to go swimming. You have a bad leg, so you always think/worry that you might get hurt. But you swam last year with no problem. You decide to try it without using the bad leg at all. Now your leg still gets hurt because you used your arms. Was that intuition that you had or was it worry?? And you would have logically tried to swim one day anyway because last year it was fine. Did you make a mistake using logic and saying lets give it a try??

So the worry that came up; is that intuition or just worry? ? It came up the day before when I went to the museum and I worried that my leg wouldn't make it but it did so it wasn't intuition, it was just worry. But if I'd gotten hurt, then we would say Aha, that was intuition in retrospect.

It is bothersome that this teacher of yoga says intuition should be developed to over ride logic. The resistance in the pool walking also hurt, which it did not do last year. Do I say I "knew" this would happen in retrospect? That I had intuition?? I worry and then I call it intuition. How do I know which worry to respect?? Every time I don't want to go somewhere, I should respect that? I don't want to go to the dentist, so I should listen to that?

Sorry, but I'm being told that I missed the intuition and failed to heed it, etc.
 
Kerome

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#7
I think there is a point in that learning to listen to intuition is more difficult when you are already struggling with logic and unreasonable impulses. Intuition can be unreasonable so how do you distinguish it from any old impulse concerning something you don't like to do? You don't want to start following all your bad impulses all of a sudden because you've decided to throw away logic.

One route is looking at causes - most impulses that suggest you not do something have an underlying reason. Perhaps the last visit to the dentist was painful, and you don't like pain. So can you identify the one impulse which seems to have no reason or attachment to what you were thinking it came completely out of the blue? That one might be intuition, and then you can give it more serious thought.

Telling intuition to override reason for a person with mental health difficulties is really irresponsible, in my view. Cultivating intuition is something you can attempt if your mind is still and in good shape, but if you struggle with delusion or poor judgment then trying to strengthen logic is a much safer path to a consistently happy life.
 
Jaminacaranda

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#8
'We'? Who do you include in the term 'we'? Fair enough, I get that I've been 'excluded'. Frankly, I'm sick of your assumption of superiority Kerome. Goodbye.
 
Kerome

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#9
There was no intent to exclude anyone Jaminacaranda. It's a thread about logic vs intuition, I'm not sure where the abuse mention came from? And I just present my view, there is no superiority implied, usually I'm just charging through a forest of thoughts trying to make sense of what I think and present it in a logical, coherent way.
 
Poopy Doll

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#10
Jaminacaranda, no one has excluded you and Kerome is just posting his thoughts like anyone else.

The reason I started this thread is because I fired my therapist and have no one to talk to about this. This goes round and round my head when I experience intuition/worry and use logic to over ride it. Plus the yoga teacher who says intuition is superior.
 
BrianHorlicks

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#11
Intuition is like a 'eureka' moment,
Where sometimes 'logic' doesn't make sense.
 
burt tomato

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#12
Intuition is when 'you know'.
Logic is when 'you think'.

Generally I have found that thinking is over-rated.
 
Poopy Doll

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#13
Here's a response I got from a friend through email on this topic of intuition versus logic.

If you have had the experience before, I wouldn't say that is intuition. That is memory of a causal condition that has already been tested that you are unaware of. The test in this case is that you go to the pool and find out whether you will be hurt or not. the results of that test will lead to conclusions that will also either be true or false and which will also need testing to verify. Intuition would, in a case like you are describing, being in a new situation that subconsciously you are aware is similar enough to a situation you are familiar with and you get the mental/emotional nudge telling you it might cause a condition, either good or bad, though you have no direct information to reason with in the new case. The test will be going into the situation and finding out. Avoiding it doesn't prove the veracity one way or the other but it is a valid choice nonetheless because there isn't anything telling you that you absolutely must find out.

Can anyone summarize what he wrote??
 
Kerome

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#15
Can anyone summarize what he wrote??
He is basically saying that intuition compares a new situation to older, similar situations that you have been in, and that it provides hints that things are going to be like the results from those older situations. For example you've never been skydiving, but you have been parasailing and had a bad accident. He argues that your intuition will tell you "don't do it!" because those situations are similar, and you had one bad experience already.

In my opinion, that's not what intuition is. Intuition is when you get an impulse, some knowledge, where you have no reasonable basis for fact. For example, you have a feeling your sister is going to call today, but you have no way of knowing one way or the other.

The dictionary is different again, btw...

intuition
ɪntjʊˈɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
the ability to understand something instinctively, without the need for conscious reasoning.
"we shall allow our intuition to guide us"
synonyms: instinct, intuitiveness;
a thing that one knows or considers likely from instinctive feeling rather than conscious reasoning.
plural noun: intuitions
"your insights and intuitions as a native speaker are positively sought"
synonyms: hunch, feeling, feeling in one's bones, gut feeling, funny feeling, inkling, sneaking suspicion, suspicion, impression
I don't consider instinct to be the same as intuition.
 
Jaminacaranda

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#16
Here's a response I got from a friend through email on this topic of intuition versus logic.

If you have had the experience before, I wouldn't say that is intuition. That is memory of a causal condition that has already been tested that you are unaware of. The test in this case is that you go to the pool and find out whether you will be hurt or not. the results of that test will lead to conclusions that will also either be true or false and which will also need testing to verify. Intuition would, in a case like you are describing, being in a new situation that subconsciously you are aware is similar enough to a situation you are familiar with and you get the mental/emotional nudge telling you it might cause a condition, either good or bad, though you have no direct information to reason with in the new case. The test will be going into the situation and finding out. Avoiding it doesn't prove the veracity one way or the other but it is a valid choice nonetheless because there isn't anything telling you that you absolutely must find out.

Can anyone summarize what he wrote??
That's pretty much what I was trying to say in an earlier post.
 
Jaminacaranda

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#17
He is basically saying that intuition compares a new situation to older, similar situations that you have been in, and that it provides hints that things are going to be like the results from those older situations
Yes, that sounds pretty much like my understanding of intuition. It's what you feel or think in situations where logic and reasoning are inappropriate because the situation is subject to random chance and therefore all you have to help you evaluate the situation and make decisions is your previous experiences compared to your current experience. It explains the 'Once bitten, twice shy' phenomenon.

Intuition is when you get an impulse, some knowledge, where you have no reasonable basis for fact. For example, you have a feeling your sister is going to call today, but you have no way of knowing one way or the other. I would call that a premonition rather than intuition.

I don't consider instinct to be the same as intuition.
I agree. Instinct is innate and to a large extent beyond conscious control, for example, the 'flight or fight' response. Intuitions can be ignored and not acted upon.
 
Poopy Doll

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#18
"Intuition isn't trying to do anything. Intuition is the merely your own brain putting together from what it knows, possible outcomes of the choices you are going to make without your awareness of the process. When you are aware of the process you call it reasoning. Both are subject to the vagaries of reliability of the information you have and both are subject to your biases. Both are only verified, to the degree that that they really are verified, by the experiment, which in this case is "going to the pool".
And yes, it sucks because reality is not certain, so we, as organisms, make our best guesses at the outcomes of our actions and events around us.'

recent email from my friend
 
Poopy Doll

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#19
The yoga teacher whose book I bought, insists that intuition is above logic, but who has access to that much intuition?? I must be mistaking worry and fears for intuition. And yes, I have had premonitions of the phone ringing with a call from a person I rarely get calls from.
 
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#20
Intuition is what's known as 'tacit knowledge'. A knowledge that can't be explained rationally. But is gained through experience. Its the knowledge of your subconscious. The lessons you were learning without even realising you were learning....because your mind was busy concentrating on the here and now. Intuition matters.