informing next of kin, Question uk

N

nounandnoun

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#21
I was on a section 3 years ago for 28 days and even though I did not want my nearest relative informed, it still had to be done either by the AMHP or the Hospital managers. I really did not like it one bit and it did not help me.

Have you seem the pdoc yet?
Sorry to hear that Harper, thank you for telling me about it. I will brace myself for the possibility then, they were good about it when i initially said i did not want them to contact my family but i can see they are not going to be as flexible as i thought at the beginning. i am doing all i can to stay informal. i agreed to admision as i could see it would be useful to have somewhere safe to sleep for a few nights and to regain strength, i am not currently mentally ill, just in a stressful situation, and they implied if i complied with treatment i'd be out within a few days. I saw the pdoc for the second time yesterday, expecting discharge as i had done as he'd requested and was essentially told i could remain voluntary but they would not allow me to discharge myself and we would discuss discharge after the bank holiday weekend. Sorry for blethering, i'm still a bit shocked that this has happened so its all just falling out my fingers! xx
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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#22
Sorry to hear that Harper, thank you for telling me about it. I will brace myself for the possibility then, they were good about it when i initially said i did not want them to contact my family but i can see they are not going to be as flexible as i thought at the beginning. i am doing all i can to stay informal. i agreed to admision as i could see it would be useful to have somewhere safe to sleep for a few nights and to regain strength, i am not currently mentally ill, just in a stressful situation, and they implied if i complied with treatment i'd be out within a few days. I saw the pdoc for the second time yesterday, expecting discharge as i had done as he'd requested and was essentially told i could remain voluntary but they would not allow me to discharge myself and we would discuss discharge after the bank holiday weekend. Sorry for blethering, i'm still a bit shocked that this has happened so its all just falling out my fingers! xx
I was sectioned yesterday and it lasted 4 hours.

:)

(y)
 
Jaminacaranda

Jaminacaranda

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#23
You can also overturn your nearest relative and choose someone else.
My friend did that and nominated me as 'next of kin' but that was a physical/medical emergency - massive heart attack. I'd always assumed it would be the same for someone suffering a mental health crisis ie. that it was their choice who they nominated as next of kin and the 'nearest relative' rule could be over-ruled. In my friend's case, he had no spouse and had children who were too young to take on the role and his nearest relatives were three adult siblings, none of whom he trusted. I have to say, once my friend nominated me, the hospital staff treated me with the utmost respect and despite some opposition from his siblings, it was me they informed about his treatment first and it was my opinion about his treatment that they took the most seriously. They appeared to respect his choice.

If this is not the case with people suffering mental health crises, that concerns me. In a crisis you need to have a 'next of kin' that you feel knows you, understands you and also has the intelligence to be objective and weigh up all the choices made by medical staff and consider the possible ramifications for the person who is unwell. When someone is suffering a mental health crisis, close relatives are quite often the very last people who should be involved in treatment decisions.
 
T

Taffy

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#24
You can also overturn your nearest relative and choose someone else.
This is true... it is called "displacement"...

Have a look at the different terminology and you will see why i am suggesting that you contact MIND.

Changing my nearest relative | Mind, the mental health charity - help for mental health problems

Not sure how you are feeling about reading stuff N a N..

Next of Kin in relation to the MH Act means zippo...

It all turns on the legal references in the Act to Nearest Relative.

And your status as a "patient" under the Act....
Taffy x
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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#25
My friend did that and nominated me as 'next of kin' but that was a physical/medical emergency - massive heart attack. I'd always assumed it would be the same for someone suffering a mental health crisis ie. that it was their choice who they nominated as next of kin and the 'nearest relative' rule could be over-ruled. In my friend's case, he had no spouse and had children who were too young to take on the role and his nearest relatives were three adult siblings, none of whom he trusted. I have to say, once my friend nominated me, the hospital staff treated me with the utmost respect and despite some opposition from his siblings, it was me they informed about his treatment first and it was my opinion about his treatment that they took the most seriously. They appeared to respect his choice.

If this is not the case with people suffering mental health crises, that concerns me. In a crisis you need to have a 'next of kin' that you feel knows you, understands you and also has the intelligence to be objective and weigh up all the choices made by medical staff and consider the possible ramifications for the person who is unwell. When someone is suffering a mental health crisis, close relatives are quite often the very last people who should be involved in treatment decisions.
Sadly Jam, a lot of us are in Crisis BECAUSE of those who are supposed to support and care for us.

In a perfect world we'd all have Trustworthy Next of Kin.

In my world such a thing does not exist.
 
T

Taffy

Guest
#26
I was sectioned yesterday and it lasted 4 hours.

:)

(y)
Yes.. this can happen too in the UK BDU ( I am sorry about you having such a dreadful time)
N and N 's present status falls under the MH Act 1983 /2005 etc over here in England ..
( i think... not an MH lawyer)..... thats why I'm saying the situation is complicated.

Next of Kin has no real legal status here...people think it does...
 
H

Harper

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#27
It must have all happened so quickly for you noun. Hope you can get some benefit from it.

There is a difference between the next of kin and the nearest relative when referring to The Mental Health Act.
The nearest relative is the one who is consulted. The nearest relative can stop a section 3 going ahead if they do not agree. With regard to section 2, the assessments can go ahead and the patient admitted - and it is only then the nearest relative is informed. They cannot sway the situation. This of course changes with the person is living with that person.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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#28
They don't even call it next of kin Downunder, anymore

I forget the exact phrase but its possibly "support Person" or "Emergency Contact"

I write NA because

1. emergencies are YOUR business, hospital

and

2. there is literally no one on planet earth I want bothered on my behalf.

The MH act already gives you a Guardian anyway. Its built in, if you're sectioned you're under THEIR care.

Third parties need not be involved unless THE PATIENT wants them to be.
 
Jaminacaranda

Jaminacaranda

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#29
It must have all happened so quickly for you noun. Hope you can get some benefit from it.

There is a difference between the next of kin and the nearest relative when referring to The Mental Health Act.
The nearest relative is the one who is consulted. The nearest relative can stop a section 3 going ahead if they do not agree. With regard to section 2, the assessments can go ahead and the patient admitted - and it is only then the nearest relative is informed. They cannot sway the situation. This of course changes with the person is living with that person.
So are you saying Harper that the UK mental Health Act denies the possibility for the person who is unwell nominating a 'next of kin' of their choice and therefore it is a totally different situation from a physical/medical emergency? Sorry, I'm just wanting to understand and the situation made clear.
 
T

Taffy

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#30
@ BDU... are you talking MH Act England or Oz... there are differences/
There is no automatic Guardianship in England to the best of my knowledge... has to be applied for and only in set circs.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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#31
@ BDU... are you talking MH Act England or Oz... there are differences/
There is no automatic Guardianship in England to the best of my knowledge... has to be applied for and only in set circs.
check it again

the hospitals will be full of folk of no fixed address with no fixed support person, all getting treatment anyway because the Act takes this into account.

If you do not nominate a Third Party the Gubmint does it for you. Here, they are called The Public Trustee. Its an entire govt department devoted to caring for those who have no options.

I will bet my house on this btw.
 
N

nounandnoun

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#32
thank you all so much, this has been very helpful indeed. While I am not about to test their threat, I dont think that they will actually section me as i am not a danger to myself or others but seeing as it is being used as a bit of a boogie man waiting under the bed its is good to get more of an idea of what i can or cant ask for or expect. I am really scared of being labelled a difficult patient so just having the right language to use and examples of what others have been through is really handy. xxx
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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#33
One question for yáll then -

IF you don't TELL them who your next of kin is, how do they KNOW?

:shrug:

They aren't Psychic. No One can access birth records without a subpoena or Court Order, not even the Fabulously Concerned NHS.
 
N

nounandnoun

Guest
#34
One question for yáll then -

IF you don't TELL them who your next of kin is, how do they KNOW?

:shrug:

They aren't Psychic. No One can access birth records without a subpoena.
its recorded in your medical records, when you get any treatment on the nhs they ask your name and get your notes up nowdays electronically. And if you can't tell them your name i think they check see if you have any ID on you. I think I had my bus pass
 
N

nounandnoun

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#35
can i chck quickly, have posts been deleted? Not questioning moderation, just reality checking, lots of information from forum and ward got cross pollinated or somthing. Thank you
 
T

Taffy

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#36
can i chck quickly, have posts been deleted? Not questioning moderation, just reality checking, lots of information from forum and ward got cross pollinated or somthing. Thank you
Looks like some stuff has gone yes... it is not you...
I think some stuff was not helpful and wrong imo... and perhaps deleted so that you were not confused imo.

You might be unwell but you are not stupid ok?...remember that and best way to deal with it if you can manage is what you are doing already and understand the rules.

If you can understand the rules then you can work out what you want to do.

Having an MI does not automatically mean that you do not have Capacity ...
look at this also

Mental Capacity Act 2005 | Mind, the mental health charity - help for mental health problems

all good wishes to you
love
Taffy
 
H

Harper

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#37
Hi Noun,

This thread digressed and it was not helpful to you. You are informal and all the legalities do not apply - and even if they did, The main focus has to be how you are and how you are doing.

I am a psychiatric social worker and it is absolutely bad practice to threaten a section. You either assess and look at all the risks involving all the relevant people. Quite often it is decided not to section someone.

Keep posting to let us know how you are.

xx Harper
 
N

nounandnoun

Guest
#38
Looks like some stuff has gone yes... it is not you...
I think some stuff was not helpful and wrong imo... and perhaps deleted so that you were not confused imo.

You might be unwell but you are not stupid ok?...remember that and best way to deal with it if you can manage is what you are doing already and understand the rules.

If you can understand the rules then you can work out what you want to do.

Having an MI does not automatically mean that you do not have Capacity ...
look at this also

Mental Capacity Act 2005 | Mind, the mental health charity - help for mental health problems

all good wishes to you
love
Taffy
Thank you so so much Taffy.
You're very kind and I have always appreciated your posts. Wishing all the best joys, love and happiness for you xx
 
N

nounandnoun

Guest
#39
Hi Noun,

This thread digressed and it was not helpful to you. You are informal and all the legalities do not apply - and even if they did, The main focus has to be how you are and how you are doing.

I am a psychiatric social worker and it is absolutely bad practice to threaten a section. You either assess and look at all the risks involving all the relevant people. Quite often it is decided not to section someone.

Keep posting to let us know how you are.

xx Harper
Thank you Harper I really appreciate your insight, knowledge and understanding. You are a lovely presense on here. I am really determined to avoid a section and i feel much clearer about it all now, i will keep updated. Really hope everything is going well for you and happiness comes your way soon xx