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In The Beginning There was ASPD...

Halcyone

Halcyone

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
64
Location
Ireland
Hi all,

I suppose a good place to start is when I as diagnosed with the dreaded Anti-Social Personality Disorder(ASPD)

My mother died when I was young and I only ever remember her being depressed. She was in and out of hospital a lot & just wasn't the maternal type. My father on the hand was one of those alcoholics who lashed out at everyone and anything and had so qualms leaving me and my sisters with his creepy friends while he went out for more whiskey. He used to lock me in the boot of his car too, but that's neither here nor there. Now having said that, my own behavior since I was a child left much to be desired, to say the least. Anyway to cut to the chase, I ended up spending a year as an inpatient
on the other side of the country so I could be "fixed".

I recently requested all my files and details from my time there, and there was quite a bit I'd forgotten. Except the guy with the crooked eye & thick country accent. I never knew which eye to look at so I always just ended up laughing, sometimes before he even spoke to me.

And btw, if any of you already know the drill for diagnosing personality disorders, feel free to skip this one.


So anyway, for diagnosing any personality disorder, the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV Axis II Personality Disorders, also called SCID-II, is used. Axis I are measured completely differently. These are the serious mental illnesses like major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, panic disorder, delusions, etc. But for personality disorders you want the DSM-IV Axis II and SCID II

Man this thing was so boring. At one point I thought I was gonna chew my own arm off. So the first part is to establish the following patterns in expression of personality:

A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1.failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest

2.deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3.impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4.irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

5.reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6.consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

7.lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

B. The individual is at least age 18 years.

C. There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.


Then they drill down with a specific line of questioning to determine the extent of the pathology(motive, sadistic enjoyment, etc.):

- Disregard for right and wrong
- Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
- Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others
- Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
- Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated
- Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior
- Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty
- Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
- Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
- Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
- Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others
- Poor or abusive relationships
- Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
- Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations


They scored me on all of those and then came the fun part: The Treatment.

There was actually nothing all that sophisticated about it really, a lot of it was focused on self-sabotage and appealing to our innate self-interest, encouraging us to consider the different treatment options and life choices available to us, and the consequences of the choices we make. So a lot of emphasis on reward and punishment.

One other thing they did I though was a bit bizarre, and maybe some of you have heard of it: Mentalization or Mentalization-based treatment(MBT)

Apparently, it works by targeting the ability to recognize and understand the mental states of ourselves as well as others, an ability that is compromised in people with ASPD. To date I think this is still a controversial treatment for any disorders where empathy is impaired. If anyone has any further information on this treatment technique, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Thanks everyone who took the time to read this rather long-winded post. Feel free to ask any questions. And oh, I have a pdf copy of the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV AXIS II Personailty disorders if anyone is interested. perhaps I can upload to my post.

Thaks again : )
S C I D – II
 
O

Orangeade

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2021
Messages
1,686
Location
England
Hi all,

I suppose a good place to start is when I as diagnosed with the dreaded Anti-Social Personality Disorder(ASPD)

My mother died when I was young and I only ever remember her being depressed. She was in and out of hospital a lot & just wasn't the maternal type. My father on the hand was one of those alcoholics who lashed out at everyone and anything and had so qualms leaving me and my sisters with his creepy friends while he went out for more whiskey. He used to lock me in the boot of his car too, but that's neither here nor there. Now having said that, my own behavior since I was a child left much to be desired, to say the least. Anyway to cut to the chase, I ended up spending a year as an inpatient
on the other side of the country so I could be "fixed".

I recently requested all my files and details from my time there, and there was quite a bit I'd forgotten. Except the guy with the crooked eye & thick country accent. I never knew which eye to look at so I always just ended up laughing, sometimes before he even spoke to me.

And btw, if any of you already know the drill for diagnosing personality disorders, feel free to skip this one.


So anyway, for diagnosing any personality disorder, the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV Axis II Personality Disorders, also called SCID-II, is used. Axis I are measured completely differently. These are the serious mental illnesses like major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, panic disorder, delusions, etc. But for personality disorders you want the DSM-IV Axis II and SCID II

Man this thing was so boring. At one point I thought I was gonna chew my own arm off. So the first part is to establish the following patterns in expression of personality:

A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1.failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest

2.deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3.impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4.irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

5.reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6.consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

7.lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

B. The individual is at least age 18 years.

C. There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.


Then they drill down with a specific line of questioning to determine the extent of the pathology(motive, sadistic enjoyment, etc.):

- Disregard for right and wrong
- Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
- Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others
- Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
- Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated
- Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior
- Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty
- Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
- Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
- Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
- Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others
- Poor or abusive relationships
- Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
- Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations


They scored me on all of those and then came the fun part: The Treatment.

There was actually nothing all that sophisticated about it really, a lot of it was focused on self-sabotage and appealing to our innate self-interest, encouraging us to consider the different treatment options and life choices available to us, and the consequences of the choices we make. So a lot of emphasis on reward and punishment.

One other thing they did I though was a bit bizarre, and maybe some of you have heard of it: Mentalization or Mentalization-based treatment(MBT)

Apparently, it works by targeting the ability to recognize and understand the mental states of ourselves as well as others, an ability that is compromised in people with ASPD. To date I think this is still a controversial treatment for any disorders where empathy is impaired. If anyone has any further information on this treatment technique, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Thanks everyone who took the time to read this rather long-winded post. Feel free to ask any questions. And oh, I have a pdf copy of the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV AXIS II Personailty disorders if anyone is interested. perhaps I can upload to my post.

Thaks again : )
S C I D – II
Thank you for sharing!
 
T E_90

T E_90

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
490
Location
__
Hi welcome,
I'm diagnosed ASPD too as well as bipolar 2 (that's mostly weird mood swings).
I'm currently in psychotherapy considering CBT, (I've never heard of MBT).
The psych told me it all comes from abuse in my childhood and possibly trauma of never knew who my father was (I don't see this as a trauma though..), the problem is that I don't remember much of my childhood hah..
As a child I've had dyslexia (mostly gone now), some unusual behaviors between the age of 5-8 and throughout my teens, and now I also have to control murderous fantasies and urges (mostly very overwhelming) that are almost always present (that's also why I'm currently in therapy).

I have to hide how I am and most of the time nothing change for me, I have no problem with that, but today for example I have a real fu*king shit day and my anger is sky high.
I do feel the only one on this planet at times...
I was about to write another post to vent since here is the only place where for a while I can at least talk 'freely' (not too much) and be myself.
Sorry to hear of your struggles, hopefully talking here will help you for a while as it helps me.
 
MollyBloom

MollyBloom

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2021
Messages
372
Location
The Capital of Europe
I have to hide how I am and most of the time nothing change for me, I have no problem with that, but today for example I have a real fu*king shit day and my anger is sky high.
I do feel the only one on this planet at times...
I was about to write another post to vent since here is the only place where for a while I can at least talk 'freely' (not too much) and be myself.
Sorry to hear of your struggles, hopefully talking here will help you for a while as it helps me.

I think it must be sometimes very lonely for you when you have to hide your true personality. This seems to be a heavy burden to bear if you can’t share this secret with someone. However I believe that someone who would truly care for you, would eventually accept who you really are if you can treat this person respectfully. Perhaps this frustration can also bottle up into anger bursts, I don’t know? Regularly creating new personae seems to me like a prison. You are locking up yourself. I am not saying to have to be open to everybody. Being very selective is a good thing.

I am very private about a few things too, even on this forum. Only a few persons I really care(d) for, know this because I value/have valued them a lot. I always thought, what you give, you have back. If you give unconditionally trust to the right person, you get unconditional trust back.

Your case made me an excellent exercise of thought of what I would do if I would care a lot for a person with ASPD (after having found this out later). I guess I would be difficult for me I am not scared of difficulties) but if this person could treat me respectfully and give me the basics I want, I think I would accept this person as he/she is. I would find very excruciating to be with someone who can’t be him/herself in my presence.

I hope you can find someone with whom you can share this who you really are in order to free yourself of pretending who you should be to please someone.
 
Halcyone

Halcyone

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
64
Location
Ireland
Hi welcome,
I'm diagnosed ASPD too as well as bipolar 2 (that's mostly weird mood swings).
I'm currently in psychotherapy considering CBT, (I've never heard of MBT).
The psych told me it all comes from abuse in my childhood and possibly trauma of never knew who my father was (I don't see this as a trauma though..), the problem is that I don't remember much of my childhood hah..
As a child I've had dyslexia (mostly gone now), some unusual behaviors between the age of 5-8 and throughout my teens, and now I also have to control murderous fantasies and urges (mostly very overwhelming) that are almost always present (that's also why I'm currently in therapy).

I have to hide how I am and most of the time nothing change for me, I have no problem with that, but today for example I have a real fu*king shit day and my anger is sky high.
I do feel the only one on this planet at times...
I was about to write another post to vent since here is the only place where for a while I can at least talk 'freely' (not too much) and be myself.
Sorry to hear of your struggles, hopefully talking here will help you for a while as it helps me.

Thanks for your reply, T E_90. It's interesting to hear about your experience. In the whole year I spent at that clinic(court ordered), there were a bunch of us there & the psyches never really focused on any childhood stuff, they were hard core behaviorists. They spent a bit of time on how we think but anytime anyone tried to connect anything to a childhood experience or even brought up a memory it was interpreted as a manipulation and an attempt to justify. They stayed the hell away from any "displays" of emotion or victimhood. It makes sense that CBT is the type of therapy you're trying. I hope you find some success with it.

I can relate to the anger you speak off. I have a hair trigger temper for stuff most normies would consider trivial. It's gotten me into trouble sometimes, a few lockups but nothing too serious.

At the moment I'm in an outpatient group & a big part of it is setting "pro-social" goals and talking through how to achieve these. Sometimes it gets a bit haphazard and we get off track & play the staff against one another but it is what it is. As for murderous fantasies. I'll leave that for another day ; )

Thanks again. Be Well.
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
2,915
Location
Australia
Hi all,

I suppose a good place to start is when I as diagnosed with the dreaded Anti-Social Personality Disorder(ASPD)

My mother died when I was young and I only ever remember her being depressed. She was in and out of hospital a lot & just wasn't the maternal type. My father on the hand was one of those alcoholics who lashed out at everyone and anything and had so qualms leaving me and my sisters with his creepy friends while he went out for more whiskey. He used to lock me in the boot of his car too, but that's neither here nor there. Now having said that, my own behavior since I was a child left much to be desired, to say the least. Anyway to cut to the chase, I ended up spending a year as an inpatient
on the other side of the country so I could be "fixed".

I recently requested all my files and details from my time there, and there was quite a bit I'd forgotten. Except the guy with the crooked eye & thick country accent. I never knew which eye to look at so I always just ended up laughing, sometimes before he even spoke to me.

And btw, if any of you already know the drill for diagnosing personality disorders, feel free to skip this one.


So anyway, for diagnosing any personality disorder, the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV Axis II Personality Disorders, also called SCID-II, is used. Axis I are measured completely differently. These are the serious mental illnesses like major depressive disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, panic disorder, delusions, etc. But for personality disorders you want the DSM-IV Axis II and SCID II

Man this thing was so boring. At one point I thought I was gonna chew my own arm off. So the first part is to establish the following patterns in expression of personality:

A. There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1.failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest

2.deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

3.impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

4.irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

5.reckless disregard for safety of self or others

6.consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

7.lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

B. The individual is at least age 18 years.

C. There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.


Then they drill down with a specific line of questioning to determine the extent of the pathology(motive, sadistic enjoyment, etc.):

- Disregard for right and wrong
- Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
- Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others
- Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
- Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated
- Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior
- Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty
- Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
- Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
- Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
- Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others
- Poor or abusive relationships
- Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
- Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations


They scored me on all of those and then came the fun part: The Treatment.

There was actually nothing all that sophisticated about it really, a lot of it was focused on self-sabotage and appealing to our innate self-interest, encouraging us to consider the different treatment options and life choices available to us, and the consequences of the choices we make. So a lot of emphasis on reward and punishment.

One other thing they did I though was a bit bizarre, and maybe some of you have heard of it: Mentalization or Mentalization-based treatment(MBT)

Apparently, it works by targeting the ability to recognize and understand the mental states of ourselves as well as others, an ability that is compromised in people with ASPD. To date I think this is still a controversial treatment for any disorders where empathy is impaired. If anyone has any further information on this treatment technique, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Thanks everyone who took the time to read this rather long-winded post. Feel free to ask any questions. And oh, I have a pdf copy of the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV AXIS II Personailty disorders if anyone is interested. perhaps I can upload to my post.

Thaks again : )
S C I D – II
I technically have ASPD too, though for me it's BPD with high antisocial traits. What I find ridiculous is how some psychs diagnose me as full ASPD whereas others refuse to simply based on the fact I have never been in trouble with the police so have not been ever diagnosed with Conduct Disorder. They don't seem to care that had I ever been CAUGHT in any of my crimes, I'd have been arrested multiple times and from age 18 to this day (age 43) would still be in jail.

I'm quite interested in anyone thinking they can change us. I feel that this is just how I am, and it doesn't bother me at all. What DOES bother me is the chronic depression, relentless boredom, severe anxiety, cPTSD, OCD, and BPD. THEY affect me. Not the ASPD.
 
Halcyone

Halcyone

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
64
Location
Ireland
I technically have ASPD too, though for me it's BPD with high antisocial traits. What I find ridiculous is how some psychs diagnose me as full ASPD whereas others refuse to simply based on the fact I have never been in trouble with the police so have not been ever diagnosed with Conduct Disorder. They don't seem to care that had I ever been CAUGHT in any of my crimes, I'd have been arrested multiple times and from age 18 to this day (age 43) would still be in jail.

I'm quite interested in anyone thinking they can change us. I feel that this is just how I am, and it doesn't bother me at all. What DOES bother me is the chronic depression, relentless boredom, severe anxiety, cPTSD, OCD, and BPD. THEY affect me. Not the ASPD.

Yeah some are strictly by the book types. I was expelled from a couple of schools so already had the conduct disorder deal. I don't get anxious or depressed but do relate to the boredom. Boredom fries my brain. I don't really care about the whole ASPD thing either, but I admit I've coped on that some choices are better than others. For my benefit anyway. My temper is my main issue. 0 to 60 in a split second. The other stuff, for me, seems to have burned out with age.

Sounds like you've a lot on your plate. Do the best you can and roll with the punches.

Thanks for replying, good to hear from you.
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
2,915
Location
Australia
Yeah some are strictly by the book types. I was expelled from a couple of schools so already had the conduct disorder deal. I don't get anxious or depressed but do relate to the boredom. Boredom fries my brain. I don't really care about the whole ASPD thing either, but I admit I've coped on that some choices are better than others. For my benefit anyway. My temper is my main issue. 0 to 60 in a split second. The other stuff, for me, seems to have burned out with age.

Sounds like you've a lot on your plate. Do the best you can and roll with the punches.

Thanks for replying, good to hear from you.
My temper also has definitely mellowed with age. I used to be really verbally abusive and physically intimidating (never violent).

I'm very casual and I look young and sweet. I lie as easily as I tell the truth and feel no guilt for the illegal stuff I've done. I'd do more if it wasn't too risky. That's the other ASPD criteria I don't 100% fit - the risky behaviour and not caring about danger. I am actually kind of balanced here. I'm fairly risk averse due to my anxiety and OCD, but I'm also arrogant, entitled and cocky. And often I just don't care. Except I care enough to not want to go to jail or have no money, as I want to continue to live a comfortable life without having to do anything much for it.

Yeah, the boredom. I can't stand it. It drives me insane and I get so irritable and then more depressed. I hate it. I can't feel enjoyment in anything.
 
Halcyone

Halcyone

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
64
Location
Ireland
My temper also has definitely mellowed with age. I used to be really verbally abusive and physically intimidating (never violent).

I'm very casual and I look young and sweet. I lie as easily as I tell the truth and feel no guilt for the illegal stuff I've done. I'd do more if it wasn't too risky. That's the other ASPD criteria I don't 100% fit - the risky behaviour and not caring about danger. I am actually kind of balanced here. I'm fairly risk averse due to my anxiety and OCD, but I'm also arrogant, entitled and cocky. And often I just don't care. Except I care enough to not want to go to jail or have no money, as I want to continue to live a comfortable life without having to do anything much for it.

Yeah, the boredom. I can't stand it. It drives me insane and I get so irritable and then more depressed. I hate it. I can't feel enjoyment in anything.

For me the bigger the risk the better. It's a plus you've been spared that coz you're right, jail & no money sucks a*s. Did they ever give you that Big 5 assessment? I scored low on neuroticism & low on agreeableness which is apparently not a good combo.

How do you manage the boredom? I'm aware we need to be careful here, but the ambiguities of language make for a perfect disguise ; )
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
2,915
Location
Australia
For me the bigger the risk the better. It's a plus you've been spared that coz you're right, jail & no money sucks a*s. Did they ever give you that Big 5 assessment? I scored low on neuroticism & low on agreeableness which is apparently not a good combo.

How do you manage the boredom? I'm aware we need to be careful here, but the ambiguities of language make for a perfect disguise ; )
lol. I actually manage the boredom these days by sleeping most of the time, because I literally have nothing I want to do or am able to do. I ONLY feel urges to do anything when I'm actively addicted to them, but right now I have no active addictions, which is a shame.

In years gone by, I'd just sing all the time. Take benzos to feel relaxed and actually enjoy stuff. Ahhh...some illegal stuff I can't say. lol.

I guess sometimes I do take risks. I think. I can't really tell. Apart from my regular "naughty shopping habits", I once walked out of a Kmart with 2 big artificial plants under my arms without paying. No one noticed. I also piled my supermarket shopping trolley with stuff, paid for maybe 5 things at the self service checkout, and then walked out with all of it, unpaid. Several times. No one even batted an eyelid. Is that risky? Some people might think so. For me though, I didn't consider it to be. When I see some weirdo suddenly running out of a shop, all frazzled and hectic, with a weirdly shaped jacket and things he's stolen falling all over the place, I just think..."Oh, come ON! Really!? Why not just walk out NORMALLY with stuff in a bag as if you'd paid for it!? Like a REGULAR person (thief)." lol

My other stuff has been more serious and I can't really mention it, but again, to me, it didn't seem risky.
 
Halcyone

Halcyone

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
64
Location
Ireland
lol. I actually manage the boredom these days by sleeping most of the time, because I literally have nothing I want to do or am able to do. I ONLY feel urges to do anything when I'm actively addicted to them, but right now I have no active addictions, which is a shame.

In years gone by, I'd just sing all the time. Take benzos to feel relaxed and actually enjoy stuff. Ahhh...some illegal stuff I can't say. lol.

I guess sometimes I do take risks. I think. I can't really tell. Apart from my regular "naughty shopping habits", I once walked out of a Kmart with 2 big artificial plants under my arms without paying. No one noticed. I also piled my supermarket shopping trolley with stuff, paid for maybe 5 things at the self service checkout, and then walked out with all of it, unpaid. Several times. No one even batted an eyelid. Is that risky? Some people might think so. For me though, I didn't consider it to be. When I see some weirdo suddenly running out of a shop, all frazzled and hectic, with a weirdly shaped jacket and things he's stolen falling all over the place, I just think..."Oh, come ON! Really!? Why not just walk out NORMALLY with stuff in a bag as if you'd paid for it!? Like a REGULAR person (thief)." lol

My other stuff has been more serious and I can't really mention it, but again, to me, it didn't seem risky. I consider risky to be, like, running out in front of traffic or something. No thank you!
In my opinion the shopping stuff would defo be risky. It's the adrenaline rush that you might get caught. Other times it's just "When I want something and I don't want to pay for it" - line from the Jane's Addiction song 'Bein' caught stealing'.

I never felt the need for benzos. That's stuff like Xanax & valium, right? But as you point out it is interesting that some people don't put on the act & just look obvious. A chill pill might have sorted those ones out : )

Thanks for sharing, I appreciate your honesty.
 
T E_90

T E_90

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
490
Location
__
Thanks for your reply, T E_90. It's interesting to hear about your experience. In the whole year I spent at that clinic(court ordered), there were a bunch of us there & the psyches never really focused on any childhood stuff, they were hard core behaviorists. They spent a bit of time on how we think but anytime anyone tried to connect anything to a childhood experience or even brought up a memory it was interpreted as a manipulation and an attempt to justify. They stayed the hell away from any "displays" of emotion or victimhood. It makes sense that CBT is the type of therapy you're trying. I hope you find some success with it.

I can relate to the anger you speak off. I have a hair trigger temper for stuff most normies would consider trivial. It's gotten me into trouble sometimes, a few lockups but nothing too serious.

At the moment I'm in an outpatient group & a big part of it is setting "pro-social" goals and talking through how to achieve these. Sometimes it gets a bit haphazard and we get off track & play the staff against one another but it is what it is. As for murderous fantasies. I'll leave that for another day ; )

Thanks again. Be Well.
Yup, I know this method is used a lot by psychiatrists and cops to not let your confidence rise and subconsciously justify your actions.
I don't see it as a big deal talking about your childhood though, I just find it a way to explain your actions to those who can understand, to give the reason I guess.
Being in a clinic sounds like hell, hope you can get some benefits from it.

In my case, I don't mind the psych, even though he tends to blame my family for my past and present behaviors and issues (especially present ones) and I think he's wrong, I have conflicting ideas. I think my family was a good one, like any other from what I can remember.
Did they ever give you that Big 5 assessment? I scored low on neuroticism & low on agreeableness which is apparently not a good combo.
I had taken the test in the past, I believe I had high extraversion, low agreeableness and low neuroticism. I've never paid too much attention to negative behaviors until lately to be honest,
but obviously they had (and still have) negative effects on my life.

I have whole cycles of days in which I simply don't want to do anything, everything is dull,
I vegetate around the house, not because I'm lazy or depressed, I just can't or want do anything, my brain freezes.
Those days are long and frustrating, which leads to more angry outbursts out of frustration.
This doesn't stop me from being socially active though (if I really have to), but it doesn't change my status once I go back home, I carry on as before.
Then I go back to a 'normal' behavior, but this can happen after a few hours or even days.
But I don't take meds, (I had to take a ssri in the past which was shit), I don't like them and I've been told that in my case they are useless anyway.
I confess that I do drink, but never enough to lose control at least (I would hate that), it seams I'm a functional alcoholic, but I don't really care, since I don't find it doing any damage and nobody ever notices changes.

I don't know how the CBT will work, I still haven't done anything about it, I wait to know what I should do, and if I really must. To be honest, it doesn't appeal to me, I'm skeptical in everything, especially in those type of things (I've tried CBT in the past and the only thing I got was being even worse).
Anyway thanks for your encouragement and your answer, I appreciate it.
 
Halcyone

Halcyone

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
64
Location
Ireland
Yup, I know this method is used a lot by psychiatrists and cops to not let your confidence rise and subconsciously justify your actions.
I don't see it as a big deal talking about your childhood though, I just find it a way to explain your actions to those who can understand, to give the reason I guess.
Being in a clinic sounds like hell, hope you can get some benefits from it.

In my case, I don't mind the psych, even though he tends to blame my family for my past and present behaviors and issues (especially present ones) and I think he's wrong, I have conflicting ideas. I think my family was a good one, like any other from what I can remember.

I had taken the test in the past, I believe I had high extraversion, low agreeableness and low neuroticism. I've never paid too much attention to negative behaviors until lately to be honest,
but obviously they had (and still have) negative effects on my life.

I have whole cycles of days in which I simply don't want to do anything, everything is dull,
I vegetate around the house, not because I'm lazy or depressed, I just can't or want do anything, my brain freezes.
Those days are long and frustrating, which leads to more angry outbursts out of frustration.
This doesn't stop me from being socially active though (if I really have to), but it doesn't change my status once I go back home, I carry on as before.
Then I go back to a 'normal' behavior, but this can happen after a few hours or even days.
But I don't take meds, (I had to take a ssri in the past which was shit), I don't like them and I've been told that in my case they are useless anyway.
I confess that I do drink, but never enough to lose control at least (I would hate that), it seams I'm a functional alcoholic, but I don't really care, since I don't find it doing any damage and nobody ever notices changes.

I don't know how the CBT will work, I still haven't done anything about it, I wait to know what I should do, and if I really must. To be honest, it doesn't appeal to me, I'm skeptical in everything, especially in those type of things (I've tried CBT in the past and the only thing I got was being even worse).
Anyway thanks for your encouragement and your answer, I appreciate it.
Know what you mean T E_90 re: those long, frustrating days. The paralyzing boredom. It's no picnic. But you seem intelligent enough to have a good grasp of what's going on for you.

I reckon you'll always be skeptical - I know I am - but you do eventually find something that works for you, even if imperfectly. I'm also a functional user and as long as it's functional I'm ok with it. I don't experience emotions and motivation like everybody else so I need to alter my brain chemistry.

But whatever, don't mean to bore you with stuff you already know. Thanks for your input and good meeting ya.
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
2,915
Location
Australia
In my opinion the shopping stuff would defo be risky. It's the adrenaline rush that you might get caught. Other times it's just "When I want something and I don't want to pay for it" - line from the Jane's Addiction song 'Bein' caught stealing'.

I never felt the need for benzos. That's stuff like Xanax & valium, right? But as you point out it is interesting that some people don't put on the act & just look obvious. A chill pill might have sorted those ones out : )

Thanks for sharing, I appreciate your honesty.
I actually got no adrenaline rush from stealing. I don't WANT to get caught and I don't like "having" to take that risk. I simply don't want to pay for anything. I only ever take stuff I would buy anyway. Or buy to then sell, to make a profit. Heh heh. lol
 
stevie_sloth

stevie_sloth

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
2,915
Location
Australia
I have whole cycles of days in which I simply don't want to do anything, everything is dull,
I vegetate around the house, not because I'm lazy or depressed, I just can't or want do anything, my brain freezes.
Those days are long and frustrating, which leads to more angry outbursts out of frustration.
This is my daily reality. Hence why I sleep all day.
 
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