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How do u KNOW u have BPII?

Hwy2Well

Hwy2Well

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In my deep-dive exploration of BPII (BiPolarII) I found an article written by a psychiatrist who in closing stressed this caveat: if the diagnosis for this disorder is made w/in a short period of time, w/out a thorough background interview and analysis, that the patient should be wary.

In my case, upon my initial visit to a psych, she focused on my pain medication. Then after exhausting that subject, she simply deemed me BPII -- and theorized aloud that I've had this all along. Her theory stemmed from the pronounced reactions I've had from psychotropics over the years (prescribed for smoking cessation/pain), all preceding this major depression.

I do not think I have BPII. Not b/c I don't want to have BPII, but b/c I do not want to go down a psychotropic rabbit hole w/out all the facts. I asked a friend recently: "When can u be sure you know that up IS up?"

I do not respond well to psychotropics, in fact, I respond profoundly negatively. This, the psych explained, was the clear marker for BPII -- that it is drug resistant, ergo, causation = correlation. At this point, I don't have the power (physically or mentally) to extract myself from another black hole -- which was my experience with Celexa and Lexapro.

I am depressed, no question. But the introduction of mood stabilizers concerns me. But first, I'd like to hear from folks w/ BpII and ask how their doc's came to this dx, and how they themselves knew this to be the correct dx.

Appreciate any guidance/insights on the topic.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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Nov 23, 2015
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17,160
hi

it has been suggested by a Therapist I have Bipolar II.

How do you know? :shrug:

no idea. None at all.

Cyclic but the highs which I never ever get, apparently look like Competence. When working I always did the work of 3 people so they think I was possibly manic for years.

I just identify as depressed, majorly, minorly, whatever. I never feel euphoria.
 
A

Asymptote

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Nov 26, 2016
Messages
524
Bipolar 2 is mainly distinguished by experiencing hypomania (Elevated state without psychosis) as opposed to the full-scale mania (Very elevated state with psychosis) in Bipolar 1.

I'm practically certain that my Bipolar 1 diagnosis is wrong, and should be 2. My elevated states aren't even worth any concern, they're never psychotic and come around once in a matter of multiple weeks without ever lasting more than a day. Depressive states, on the other hand, are a huge portion of my life.
 
Hairy.Mary

Hairy.Mary

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Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
502
In my deep-dive exploration of BPII (BiPolarII) I found an article written by a psychiatrist who in closing stressed this caveat: if the diagnosis for this disorder is made w/in a short period of time, w/out a thorough background interview and analysis, that the patient should be wary.

In my case, upon my initial visit to a psych, she focused on my pain medication. Then after exhausting that subject, she simply deemed me BPII -- and theorized aloud that I've had this all along. Her theory stemmed from the pronounced reactions I've had from psychotropics over the years (prescribed for smoking cessation/pain), all preceding this major depression.

I do not think I have BPII. Not b/c I don't want to have BPII, but b/c I do not want to go down a psychotropic rabbit hole w/out all the facts. I asked a friend recently: "When can u be sure you know that up IS up?"

I do not respond well to psychotropics, in fact, I respond profoundly negatively. This, the psych explained, was the clear marker for BPII -- that it is drug resistant, ergo, causation = correlation. At this point, I don't have the power (physically or mentally) to extract myself from another black hole -- which was my experience with Celexa and Lexapro.

I am depressed, no question. But the introduction of mood stabilizers concerns me. But first, I'd like to hear from folks w/ BpII and ask how their doc's came to this dx, and how they themselves knew this to be the correct dx.

Appreciate any guidance/insights on the topic.
Bp2 means they can prescribe you drugs as if it were a BPD diagnosis then drugs should not be prescribed..... Money makes the world go round :)
 
Poopy Doll

Poopy Doll

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Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA
As soon as they found out I have relatives with bipolar, they pronounced me bipolar and no one ever discussed if it was one or two. I have an aunt who committed suicide. I had an uncle and a cousin who took lithium all their lives. One of my three sons is bipolar but takes nothing. My niece is bipolar and takes nothing. I am currently on lithium and am slowly deleting it due to bad side effects. It is lithium carbonate. When the time is right, I may start lithium orotate which will theoretically not cause the severe GI distress which developed after many years of taking the carbonate form.

I myself knew I was bipolar because of my intensity and elevated libido.

I was very naive when I became involved with psychiatrists. There was no internet back then to look things up or connect with people. I wish you the very best. :)
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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Nov 23, 2015
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Bipolar II may be the label they slap you with when you don't need a label...?

I'm really surprised, I thought there would be a bunch of instructive posts, but it seems like we are all as confused as one another.

Like I said, I never experience Euphoria but they suspect I was the Mild Manic for years which disguised itself as Competence

OR, my take, I actually am wildly competent it was the MI that stopped it rather than causing it.

I just do not get Euphoria. It would be nice every once in a while.

:shrug:
 
Hwy2Well

Hwy2Well

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Dec 22, 2016
Messages
177
Location
West Coast
"...look like competence..." (Good one! Sincerely!). This statement caught my eye b/c my psych said something like: "your baseline activity is most likely what other people's high performing days are like..". Which made zero sense to me. If we are to use subjective standards to dx mental maladies do we disregard individuality? Like, you, Border, are you just by nature a hard worker/over-achiever, or do you think your drive is being fueled by a chemical imbalance?

I worked since a young age (family farm) so when I went out into the "real world" I was surprised by folks who did not put more effort towards their jobs. Now, in my estimation, they had a low work ethic. To say that my fervor for working hard was a product of a mental illness -- & not the product of being raised on a farm where there's no weekends, no holidays, and a father who would give ya heck (no, not abuse...they used to call it "parenting") if you didn't get out of bed and feed the calves, whatever. Well, after years of that, once one gets in a climate controlled environment, with designated hours & time-off, it's dang near Shang-ri-la! But that's my thing. I've met many others who have just as strong of work ethic, and others I would consider lazy (with the majority occupying the middle).

Point being, BPII's hypomania (as my psych explained) can manifest itself as a period of irritability, high performance (but not manic). For me, that is not enough to go on. The psych said she needed me to undergo neuro-psych testing before we can understand the problem. This NP testing is a several thousand dollar event, and not covered by my insurance. I read that this test is somewhat controversial, in that it is subjective. Anyone have experience with this?

Is "depression" no longer a thing? A stand alone event? Must a depression be the symptom of a conglomeration of illnesses: Borderline Personality Disorder, BP & BPII, etc? Just because I have bad reactions to SSRIs, and other psychotropics, does that clearly indicate a disorder? (No, not expecting an online dx, just feedback.) I'm hoping there's someone who knows their BPII dx is correct, and how the proper dx came about.

I WISH I'd had or could have a period of mania. I've spent most days in bed these last several months. This is a massive depression. I'm going to try Sam-E and pregnolosone to try to kick up my cortisol b/c I have no energy. I'm plotting out a lifestyle shift, plus I found a CBTherapist, which is supposed to help re-train the brain, 'eh? The psych said I WILLNOT recover w/out pharmaceutical intervention. Can someone back that claim up? I'll try ECT before I go down the psychotropic rabbit hole again.

I seriously can't handle anymore setbacks.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

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Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,160
"...look like competence..." (Good one! Sincerely!). This statement caught my eye b/c my psych said something like: "your baseline activity is most likely what other people's high performing days are like..". Which made zero sense to me. If we are to use subjective standards to dx mental maladies do we disregard individuality? Like, you, Border, are you just by nature a hard worker/over-achiever, or do you think your drive is being fueled by a chemical imbalance?

I worked since a young age (family farm) so when I went out into the "real world" I was surprised by folks who did not put more effort towards their jobs. Now, in my estimation, they had a low work ethic. To say that my fervor for working hard was a product of a mental illness -- & not the product of being raised on a farm where there's no weekends, no holidays, and a father who would give ya heck (no, not abuse...they used to call it "parenting") if you didn't get out of bed and feed the calves, whatever. Well, after years of that, once one gets in a climate controlled environment, with designated hours & time-off, it's dang near Shang-ri-la! But that's my thing. I've met many others who have just as strong of work ethic, and others I would consider lazy (with the majority occupying the middle).

Point being, BPII's hypomania (as my psych explained) can manifest itself as a period of irritability, high performance (but not manic). For me, that is not enough to go on. The psych said she needed me to undergo neuro-psych testing before we can understand the problem. This NP testing is a several thousand dollar event, and not covered by my insurance. I read that this test is somewhat controversial, in that it is subjective. Anyone have experience with this?

Is "depression" no longer a thing? A stand alone event? Must a depression be the symptom of a conglomeration of illnesses: Borderline Personality Disorder, BP & BPII, etc? Just because I have bad reactions to SSRIs, and other psychotropics, does that clearly indicate a disorder? (No, not expecting an online dx, just feedback.) I'm hoping there's someone who knows their BPII dx is correct, and how the proper dx came about.

I WISH I'd had or could have a period of mania. I've spent most days in bed these last several months. This is a massive depression. I'm going to try Sam-E and pregnolosone to try to kick up my cortisol b/c I have no energy. I'm plotting out a lifestyle shift, plus I found a CBTherapist, which is supposed to help re-train the brain, 'eh? The psych said I WILLNOT recover w/out pharmaceutical intervention. Can someone back that claim up? I'll try ECT before I go down the psychotropic rabbit hole again.

I seriously can't handle anymore setbacks.
isn't that strange, I am one generation away from a farming family too.

Maybe hard work is in our DNA.

I would not pay anyone a single cent for a test to tell you you are bipolar, for fucks sake, that's THEIR JOB. They are supposed to ask you the appropriate questions, consider your answers, ask more if things aren't clear, make a considered and educated diagnosis.

Hooking you up to a machine is valid, in the future.

But not right now when Psychiatry is a practice of Leg Crossing.

Also, mental health changes. Its like physical health. Bipolar II is so fucking vague, and if it means, Working Hard, then we're all in the shit. Or not, the new generations wont have Bipolar II because they (generally) don't work hard.

:shrug:

its interesting to note my son had an entirely different upbringing than I did, at least 50% clean DNA from his father, and he is working like a dog just like I did at age 19.

Its a sad world when Ambition Hard Work and Competence are viewed as Mental Illness isn't it. :(
 
Hwy2Well

Hwy2Well

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Dec 22, 2016
Messages
177
Location
West Coast
Hiya Asym: When u are in an "elevated" state, do you know it, or do you know you're in it b/c people tell you about observed shifts, or spontaneous energetic behavior(s)?

I'm sure that could be worded far more elegantly, but I'm typing thru a headache...
 
Hwy2Well

Hwy2Well

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Dec 22, 2016
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Right, Border -- well, at least that's my point of view as well. I asked my CBT how there are 10's of thousands of folks taking one thing or another, for this or that, without having undergone a test that costs as much as a decent used car. She ceded the point, but said that my drug resistant depression made a dx/treatment complicated.

Adderall has helped with focus, concentration and a slight elevation in mood. My PCP and now-terminated Psych think this is improper to prescribe. I find it ironic that they (the doc's) would prefer me to be on a mood stabilizer, which I understand is difficult to stop (even with titration), or another psychotropic that offers a buffet of side-effects and heavy physical dependency. Worse, it takes 4-6weeks to determine whether the medication is "working," at which time you may add another Med to offset the first Med, or have to start over altogether. Any people out there who were prescribed ONE medication & it worked out-the-gate, and no other medication add-on or outright switch was required? Seems anymore that drugs for these disorders are a cocktail, not a single shot.

I'm not anti-Med, I'm anti-pharma -- if that makes any sense.
 
Hwy2Well

Hwy2Well

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Messages
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I empathize, Poopy, w/ your struggles w/ medication. It took me over a year to find the optimal medication combo for pain (maintaining the least dosage as poss while still benefitting). Massive NSAID intake did a number on my stomach too.

About Lithium: do you take this in the course of a depressive state? I read that it "mellows" and can lead to lethargy. If I mellow anymore I'll have to remember to breathe. Likewise the fear of increased lethargy.
 
Poopy Doll

Poopy Doll

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I don't get depressed. I use to be hypo manic on my own. When given steroids for an illness, I became beyond manic. I don't think the lithium will be missed once gone.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,160
"...look like competence..." (Good one! Sincerely!). This statement caught my eye b/c my psych said something like: "your baseline activity is most likely what other people's high performing days are like..". Which made zero sense to me. If we are to use subjective standards to dx mental maladies do we disregard individuality? Like, you, Border, are you just by nature a hard worker/over-achiever, or do you think your drive is being fueled by a chemical imbalance?

I worked since a young age (family farm) so when I went out into the "real world" I was surprised by folks who did not put more effort towards their jobs. Now, in my estimation, they had a low work ethic. To say that my fervor for working hard was a product of a mental illness -- & not the product of being raised on a farm where there's no weekends, no holidays, and a father who would give ya heck (no, not abuse...they used to call it "parenting") if you didn't get out of bed and feed the calves, whatever. Well, after years of that, once one gets in a climate controlled environment, with designated hours & time-off, it's dang near Shang-ri-la! But that's my thing. I've met many others who have just as strong of work ethic, and others I would consider lazy (with the majority occupying the middle).

Point being, BPII's hypomania (as my psych explained) can manifest itself as a period of irritability, high performance (but not manic). For me, that is not enough to go on. The psych said she needed me to undergo neuro-psych testing before we can understand the problem. This NP testing is a several thousand dollar event, and not covered by my insurance. I read that this test is somewhat controversial, in that it is subjective. Anyone have experience with this?

Is "depression" no longer a thing? A stand alone event? Must a depression be the symptom of a conglomeration of illnesses: Borderline Personality Disorder, BP & BPII, etc? Just because I have bad reactions to SSRIs, and other psychotropics, does that clearly indicate a disorder? (No, not expecting an online dx, just feedback.) I'm hoping there's someone who knows their BPII dx is correct, and how the proper dx came about.

I WISH I'd had or could have a period of mania. I've spent most days in bed these last several months. This is a massive depression. I'm going to try Sam-E and pregnolosone to try to kick up my cortisol b/c I have no energy. I'm plotting out a lifestyle shift, plus I found a CBTherapist, which is supposed to help re-train the brain, 'eh? The psych said I WILLNOT recover w/out pharmaceutical intervention. Can someone back that claim up? I'll try ECT before I go down the psychotropic rabbit hole again.

I seriously can't handle anymore setbacks.
Mine too.

When I took my last job it was split between 2 who still struggled to do it

When I left, it went from being Just Me (id improved the Policy tenfold in the meantime) to being divided amongst 3 people.

And even then they couldn't keep up, I knew because I was on their Mailing List. :D

But then I became unable to even open an envelope and still struggle nearly 6 years later.

I was also told by my last therapist, a man who has his own training college people pay thousands to study at, that my intellect is on par with his, which is why I can outshrink my shrinks and basically they are useless to me.

He was a very smart man with about 5 degrees and 3 doctorates and he believed my intellect to be the same as his.

All this is very exhausting by the way. And disheartening.

When you ask your shrink why they do the job and they say, Its Fascinating, you just think, That's The Wrong Answer, Youre Supposed To Say, Because I Want To Heal.

Cut some bugs open, they cry less.

It means that you sever from treatment all the damn time because you can outthink them and of course the next thought is, are they even fucking helping????
 
Hwy2Well

Hwy2Well

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Dec 22, 2016
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West Coast
I do seem to have a tendancy to tick off the mental health folks, not b/c I think I'm smarter than them, but because I know I'm an expert on ME. I understand that fitting in 50+ years of experience into one 40min session is a tough position to put anyone in, especially if they have a fat book of medications that they would like to try out on a human subject... (Sorry, that was a tad bitter). They seem to have a hard time molding a cookie cutter dx to my situation.

I am desperate, so if I have a modicum of trust in the next psych, I may relent down the pharmacological rabbit hole -- but it will take a crapload of information and back-up evidence. If I feel like someone is looking at the whole picture, that will go a long way. I found a psych that does have a chronic pain background, so that skips the 20min addiction evaluation, plus from his website, he values non-pharmaceutical approaches (meditation/yoga). I don't have the energy or outlook to feel hopeful, but at least I know I made an effort to guide my recovery towards a more wholistic approach.

Funny you should mention mail: haven't opened mine for months. I present the outcroppings of my debilitating fatigue in my post about meds and supplements if you're interested.

Thanks for your feedback, BDU! Much appreciated.
 
A

Asymptote

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Joined
Nov 26, 2016
Messages
524
Hiya Asym: When u are in an "elevated" state, do you know it, or do you know you're in it b/c people tell you about observed shifts, or spontaneous energetic behavior(s)?

I'm sure that could be worded far more elegantly, but I'm typing thru a headache...
On an off-topic note, I tend to type posts in similar ways because I'm struggling to find more fluent words to use. So, no problem there :)

Having delved deeper into mental health in recent months and gotten a better understanding of how it affects me, I've become significantly more aware of the cause for my moods. So, when I'm in those elevated states, I'm most often conscious of it.

Also, I have sort of a distrust toward pdocs myself. Haven't had a diagnosis since I was only about yea high, *holds hand out at waist-level*, but I'd gone through many appointments with multiple psychiatrists from a couple of years ago up to early in this year, and they seemed more inclined to rush to conclusions and call it a day rather than have an honest discussion and make a reasonable summary. Some may be more solicitous than others, but I generally regard them with a note of dislike.
 
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