How can we sort this mess out?

[karmalady]

I am at my wits end over my friends OH.
In brief for well over a year now he has been talking about the CIA bugging him, the illumiati, people stealing his work off the internet etc etc. He was agitated all the time and would rant at you for hours on end. I tried to tell his partner that there was something wrong but met with a brick wall, it was as if she wouldnt acknowledge it so therefore it wasnt real.
This all culminated in a huge psychotic episode when he came to my house early one morning after the children had gone to school and was very aggresive and confrontational accused me of kidnapping him and was making all kinds of threats.
He shot off in his car and I rang his wife to tell her that he had flipped out and that as she was 7 months pregnant I thought she should come to my house as I was worried for her safety. All she asked me was 'what has he done' there was no surprise in her voice at all.
The culmination of this was that he returned to my house and we had to call the police as he was trying to get her into the car with him and screaming that I was controlling her mind etc etc.
He was sectioned under the mental health act and held for seven days but wasnt even seen by a consultant until 5 days in. His wife just dissolved during this time cried and said I cant cope with this, and so we all stepped in looked after the kids liased with the hospital went to vist him, we even tried to sort out getting him into the Priory.Unfortuntatly he had calmed down after 5 days ,and said whatever he had to to be released.
He was them signed off completely!
I kept trying to tell his wife that he still wasnt right, but she just wouldnt listen, she got quite nasty with me whilst still expecting me to carry on as though nothing had happened. He was still delusional and was telling me that he had healed himself, becoming obssesed with good and evil etc etc. In the end I just backed off but was really worried for them all.
6 weeks after the initial episode it happened again only much much worse, he was talking about taking her and the kids to a better place, that there was no such thing as good and evil we are all animals, that this world isnt real, to listen to the magic radio, and that the bunny that was on his shoulder explaining everything to him would come to her if only she would listen. He kept saying 'talk to the children they understand' and has since transpired that he has been spending hours talking to them and she didnt notice.
He went into hospital with the doctors so that he could explain to them about the fact that this world isnt real etc.
In the mean time his wife had to have an emergancy c section, and we are looking after all their other kids, looking after her in hospital and trying to sort out what was going on with her OH
He became more severe when the hospital (against his wife wishes) told him thet the baby had been born and was sectioned.
The problem that I have is that between all their friends we have a lot of children, and we know that when he gets out, just like last time they will want to pretend nothing happened - which I can understand - but in order to keep him distracted she wants him to spend time with everyone, but I dont feel that until he has a diagnosis and is medicated that I want him round my children.
That may sound harsh, but as their parent it is my duty to protect them and frankly someone who is talking about taking them to a better place is to much of a risk.
I tried last time to support them as much as I could, have their kids over all the time, the only thing that I wasnt comfortable with was him being round my kids, as I knew he wasnt right. Unfortunately they both became very abusive when he was on a 6 hour release and I refused to meet them with all the kids on the beach, and accused me of calling him a paedophile. We patched things up but I know that this time will be just the same. She will want to pretend that everything is normal when it isnt.
How can I make her see that I want to help in any way that I can, but at the same time I have the right to ensure that I dont put my kids into a situation where they could be at risk?
If it makes any difference my mum was an alcholic who died of liver failure 10 years ago and I was her primary carer, even though she was my mum and I adored her there were times when I did not allow any contact with my kids as I didnt want them to witness what she was like. It isnt that his condition frightens me, its just that I want to be able to protect the kids whilst helping them.
What can i do???

 

[Apotheosis]

Hello & welcome to the site.

It is a hard one. His behaviour/thinking does appear to be classic of what would be labelled Paranoid Schizophrenia.

I do understand you not wanting him around your kids. It is often scary to see someone in these states. & although the majority of people experiencing such states are not any more potentially violent than anyone else (usually less so); there is that minority which are. Him saying that he wanted to take them to 'a better place'; could mean anything; in the mind & logic of someone experiencing such things. He could have meant a holiday to Disney land. But as I say, I understand your concerns.

Sadly, given the social climate, & the state of the NHS & MH services; individuals lack any kind of comprehensive or proper help & support - little to nothing is done about underlying social difficulties, & 'care' for the unwell person usually falls to those people that they are close to - usually family.

People in general do not want to accept that their loved ones are ill - Denial is a major component & reaction to these things - in the sufferer, carers, & society as a whole. The subject is taboo.

Given the almost total lack of genuine support & care - the usual outcomes are that the sufferer ends up medicated after a certain amount of time - & they can then enjoy major sedation, med dependence, zombification, severe apathy, & being drugged up for the rest of their lives - which certainly makes it a lot easier for everyone else - but I seriously question how healthy it is for them?

What also happens as the usual outcome is most friends drop away, & the sufferer usually end's up socially isolated & excluded. Even supposedly 'stabilised' on meds - & this is where the gravity of the predicament is often most felt by the person experiencing such states.

I am coming form the perspective of a person that has been through years of illness, & so my perspectives are coloured by that. Things became a hell of a lot harder for me when I was labelled, & made med dependant. Since then have also been the times when I have been the most vulnerable. There is great stigma & discrimination.

You say that he is in hospital again at the moment? As far as I understood - then maybe he has been given some kind of diagnosis/meds? Or he will be. Some people often return to a good level of functioning. But the social climate & attitudes can make a recovery so much harder.

Your kids obviously come first; do what you need to do, to look after you & you own. If you can; try to be there for your friend, & understand that he is quite probably more scared than anyone else in all this, & may have, or get more insight than anyone else into what he has been through. It is not his fault that he is unwell - it is probably best considered as an illness - & like anyone that is unwell; that he needs support, care, love & understanding.

Hope that helps.

 

[karmalady]

Hi Apotheosis,

I cannot abandon my friend, she has just had a c section and will not be able to cope and I care very much about her - even though she does drive me to distraction sometimes.

He was very specific when he spoke about 'the better place' he talked about them passing over and moving on and that this life was a kind of holding place, with none of being real but that you had to realise that before you could go to the better place. He said that he needed to make her understand because he didnt want to have to leave her behind. You must appreciate how worrying that was. He believes that he is the founder of a new religion and that it is his job to make as many people understand as possible so that they can move on, he is adamant that children do understand and that they are here to guide their parents so that they can move on as a family.

He also told our friend last night that he is tonguing the pills and then spitting them out when the nurses arent looking, should we tell the staff?

I guess we are just going to have to take it one day at a time, and if they wont accept the way that we feel regarding the kids then so be it. How can there be so little help for them?

 

[Apotheosis]

Hi Apotheosis,I cannot abandon my friend, she has just had a c section and will not be able to cope and I care very much about her - even though she does drive me to distraction sometimes.

I understand that - Is he not your friend as well?

I just feel that the one that will ultimately suffer the most in all this is him.

Be there as much as you can for her & her kids; & do what you feel is the right & best thing to do. Who is liaising with the MH team that he is under care with? Who is in discussion with them?

If you feel this level of concern for the safety of this family, then I would personally make the MH team responsible for his care; fully aware of everything that you have discussed here.

It is very common for people to avoid taking meds, & to stop meds etc.

It does sound like he is very unwell; & it is best that while he in is contact with services that what support is available is made full use of.

Have you discussed all these concern with you friend? What does she say about all this? What is her perspective with him? Does she want to leave him? Is she afraid for her safety & the safety of her kids?

Considering the situation - the kids must come first; their well being is paramount - It is probably best to do what needs to be done - that he gets the treatment he needs to best help him.

 

[karmalady]

Sorry I was trying to edit my post but it wouldnt work!

I would never abandon my friend - far from it, but after years of looking after my mum I am all too aware of the delicate balance between helping her and protecting my family. One thing that I do know is that to have denied what was happening to my mum would have been to do her a great disservice and would have put everyone around her at risk.

I think that part of my issue is that her OH has never interacted with anyones kids before he got ill, he used to stay up all night and sleep all day, he would come round to get his kids from my house when he got out of bed and 'share his theories' with me but we never did things as families, wasnt so much my friend as my best mate OH if you understand, to be honest he didnt really like me when we first became friends but over time we got to know each other better.

Since he got ill she is trying not just to pretend that nothing happened, but to recreate a past that never happened, and it is this that I have an issue with. She has already said that he didnt see that many people before he had the second episode and she thinks that may have contributed, but she forgets that none of us ever saw him before he got ill.

my worry is that she will deny it is happening every time until he is so dellusional that she can no longer pretend that it isnt happening, and she is putting her kids at risk by doing that. We all know that he has been sharing his new religion with the kids for at least a couple of weeks, but she seemed unaware that it was happening, I know she doesnt want to face it, but she has to for her kids. I love her kids and at the moment feel a huge responsibilty towards them, I just dont know what to do.

When I tried to tell her that he was still not well she just got angry and kept saying 'hes fine' but everyone around them was worried, she is not the dominant one in their relationship and when he makes even a bit of sense she just goes along with him - hence the treating him like a paedophile rant.

Last time he got ill another friend told her the night before that he was totally dellusional and that he thought he had been kidnapped by aliens and that he had no adams apple, she still let him drive the kids to school and just put her head in the sand.

What a bl***y mess.....

 

[Apotheosis]

What a bl***y mess.....

I agree with you - & the kids must come first.