Forgiveness of self & others

Nikita

Nikita

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#2
Yeah,what about the DWP and the minister twats,are we to forgive them for ton of bricks they are going to drop upon my delicate frame?
 
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#3
Yeah,what about the DWP and the minister twats,are we to forgive them for ton of bricks they are going to drop upon my delicate frame?
It's the Government who are primarily responsible for it all, influenced heavily by the banking/corporate elite. It's about money/control/power.

i've been considering all this a lot & how forgiveness plays out with society/the system/humanity & World.

i can see the sense of forgiveness on a personal level in regards to what others have done to us, what we have perceived others have done/Not done, & the ways that we have behaved & been, the part that we have played in things (even if our part is 'simply' holding on to resentment, anger & bitterness etc). i can also see a sense in trying to have an attitude of forgiveness for anything that we feel aggrieved by.

i feel what is most important is to forgive ourselves, to have compassion for ourselves, to show ourselves kindness. i feel that then makes it a bit easier to give that to others & the World.

These spiritual ideals & principles i feel primarily make sense on a personal level within our own inner World/psyche - within our own thoughts, feelings & emotions. The collective World begins within each individual. If we stand by certain ethical, moral & spiritual principles then surely it has to begin within our own self/Being. A good example that i started to ponder is the principle of peace - non-violence - doesn't that mean that as an ideal we seek to remove any violent thinking, feelings, emotions & speech from within our own inner World/self? i feel this applies to many ideal principles.

i've been contemplating more & more the simple principles of kindness/compassion, non-judgement, forgiveness, acceptance & gratitude, (& others) especially those last 3 - applied as best as possible to 'everything' - i'm Not saying it's easy, & very much i also feel that we 'shouldn't' fall into the trap of self blame/judgement & beating ourselves up for falling short. But as a contemplative practice, to calmly try & apply in a very practical sense to our inner World, day to day living of our lives & interactions with others, from the pov of progress from who we were to more real & decent people, Not perfection.

The acceptance i feel is key to things, & allowance of what is, which is said to be the deepest form of meditative/contemplative practice - Allowance of the World, other people, ourselves as we are/as things are - allowing reality to be as it is. To simply allow ourselves to be ourselves. To rest in our own Being. Not to deny anything, but an acceptance of who we are, warts & all, shadow & light, all the dualities, an acceptance of the past, that past is past, an acceptance, however painful of the reality of our circumstances, lives, other people & society/World as it is. Not in a passive/conforming sense, but in the sense of what is; is what is. If we are in anger, pain, fear or illness etc, to observe & accept that is how we are.

i'm Not claiming any moral high ground here, very far from it - Nor that i am some enlightened Guru, as i'm Not, & there is Nothing new or original with any of this - Just themes which seem to keep appearing for me in certain ways within my own contemplation. Maybe an interesting idea for a thread/discussion as to how we each try & apply & see our own path of recovery/healing/spirituality & different perspectives on all these areas. i do find it an interesting correlation that within all the World's spiritual/religious teachings there do appear to be some Universal ideas/ideals/principles. Such as the Golden Rule. In essence what are the commonalities of 'Great Souls' - despite their individuality, there also appears to be certain commonalities imo, in their teachings & ways, regardless of all the other differences of individual personality/circumstances, ethnicity, creed, time, place & culture.

It helps me to simplify things & boil things down within my own life & healing to, in part, ideal principles.

Just my thoughts/perspective on it.
 
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#4
It helps me to simplify things & boil things down within my own life & healing to, in part, ideal principles.

Just my thoughts/perspective on it.
As human as we all are, as difficult as some of the things are that we have been through & have to deal & cope with. As hard as this World is, all we can really do is accept the way a lot of it all is. All we can really change or work on ultimately is our own self.

i've been trying to stop being as critical of others, allow them to be as they are, & work on my own inner self - as described above. That's very hard to do at times, especially i find on-line. But as a practise to work on & towards, it makes some kind of sense to me. It also seems to make life a bit easier in ways. All resentment, anger, judgement, blame & unforgiveness really ultimately hurts is ourselves, & aren't we also just as much in need of forgiveness, allowance, non-judgement, & kindness?
 
Passionflower

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#5
I have forgiven people from my past who have hurt me and have moved on as as you say it only really hurts me to stay angry and bitter. They are just going about their own business so I will too.
 
Nikita

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#6
Me too I am where you are at with it all CPU whatever is is,that included whatever the DWP has in store for me,I am just going to accept it and work on being the best person I can be,forgiveness is a part of it I have let go of the whole business of what my sister did to me.And as for the DWP if I can find work that is meaningful and satisfying then I will do the best I can and work with them,I reckon they are going to make some people in the support group aim towards work but I think there are people in that group with varying degrees of severity in their conditions and not all will be forced to work.By their own definitions they have said I am severely disabled,but we will see and stay positive and forgiving.It is all we can do is strive for the best ,practice acceptance and forgiveness and work on improving ourselves.I thank you for sharing CPU I am exactly at the same inner space as you are with it all today!
 
Kerome

Kerome

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#7
It's the Government who are primarily responsible for it all, influenced heavily by the banking/corporate elite. It's about money/control/power.

i've been considering all this a lot & how forgiveness plays out with society/the system/humanity & World.
Perhaps it is useful to consider that in the end this all takes place in the mind. Your happiness and unhappiness, desires and fears are all constructs which arise in your mind... the hills, forests, clouds do not care, they just are. But a newspaper or website visible to your eyes causes to take shape in your mind unrest, judgment, resistance to what is, unhappiness.

i can see the sense of forgiveness on a personal level in regards to what others have done to us, what we have perceived others have done/Not done, & the ways that we have behaved & been, the part that we have played in things (even if our part is 'simply' holding on to resentment, anger & bitterness etc). i can also see a sense in trying to have an attitude of forgiveness for anything that we feel aggrieved by.

i feel what is most important is to forgive ourselves, to have compassion for ourselves, to show ourselves kindness. i feel that then makes it a bit easier to give that to others & the World.
Those principles are an important part of entering the spiritual life. Acceptance and forgiveness of what we have been and done, and a resolve to do better, to let compassion, kindness and heartfulness into our lives are a really big step.

These spiritual ideals & principles i feel primarily make sense on a personal level within our own inner World/psyche - within our own thoughts, feelings & emotions. The collective World begins within each individual. If we stand by certain ethical, moral & spiritual principles then surely it has to begin within our own self/Being. A good example that i started to ponder is the principle of peace - non-violence - doesn't that mean that as an ideal we seek to remove any violent thinking, feelings, emotions & speech from within our own inner World/self? i feel this applies to many ideal principles.
Yes, very much so. The Eastern traditions of renunciation give some insight into how this works, as do the Buddhist precepts for lay people, which include as a first step not killing. But if you really want to extend this it is necessary to work deeply with mindfulness and insight, to become aware of the sources of difficult impulses within us and untangle those, to become truly peaceful and compassionate within.

The acceptance i feel is key to things, & allowance of what is, which is said to be the deepest form of meditative/contemplative practice - Allowance of the World, other people, ourselves as we are/as things are - allowing reality to be as it is. To simply allow ourselves to be ourselves. To rest in our own Being.
This very much gels with the Tao, the idea that the world is perfect but we fail to be in harmony, and the goal is to achieve oneness with the Way, the motion of the world. I find it a beautiful approach.

But purely acceptance doesn't get you all the way to peacefulness. For that you need to do more work, primarily with insight. I think acceptance is important, being aware of the motion of the world, but you have choices too, there is the possibility of making effort toward what is skilful and beneficial, and effort to close off and renounce things which are not.

i do find it an interesting correlation that within all the World's spiritual/religious teachings there do appear to be some Universal ideas/ideals/principles. Such as the Golden Rule.
The Golden Rule I think is the basis, the starting point for a lot of morality and idealism. Even just in humanist thinking. Spirituality can take things a lot further, for example the Buddha held that animals were just as deserving of kindness and compassion as humans. But it is only a starting point for inner development, and not the only one.
 
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#8
The Golden Rule I think is the basis, the starting point for a lot of morality and idealism. Even just in humanist thinking. Spirituality can take things a lot further, for example the Buddha held that animals were just as deserving of kindness and compassion as humans. But it is only a starting point for inner development, and not the only one.
All life, in essence & at core is sacred & divine. All life is ensouled.
 
Kerome

Kerome

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#9
All resentment, anger, judgement, blame & unforgiveness really ultimately hurts is ourselves, & aren't we also just as much in need of forgiveness, allowance, non-judgement, & kindness?
It is said that "anger is like trying to damage another by holding in your hand a glowing hot coal", and I think there is a lot of truth in that. Most negative emotions cause you suffering, and while some of these things are what you'd like to cast at another, in effect you really can't - they arise in your own mind and they give you pain and unpleasantness.

Again it is insight and meditation that can help... if you can see a little of your own mind, meditate on it, then you can determine the origin of these negative emotions. You might find that you see some things as arising from a wrong view or are an attack on your person when in fact they are not, or that the ego objects to being painted as inferior. There are lots of things... I once posted about the Three Poisons.
 
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#10
Do everything with a mind that lets go. Do not expect any praise or reward. If you let go a little, you will have a little peace. If you let go a lot, you will have a lot of peace. If you let go completely, you will know complete peace and freedom. Your struggles with the world will have come to an end...

~ Ajahn Chah ~
 
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