calypso

calypso

Well-known member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
41,475
Location
Lancashire
#1
I am feeling a bit better, still hearing the 'man', but he is not intimidating me and even called my his little flower (sarcastically, but hey), the other day. The urge to die is still there as is self harm, but not as intensely. Resisting the SH seems to stop it dominating too much. I'm on 15mg now of Aripiprazole and the pdoc is going to increase it more in a month.

I am concerned that it has strong anti depressant qualities as I am still on anti depressants too and last time, that lead to hyperactivity. I do realise that I can't concentrate more than a few moments at a time, and all the symptoms are still of severe depression, but I am improving I think. CROSS FINGERS its not just today.
 
H

Harper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
337
#2
Hi Calypso,

This is positive news even though I know you are not out of the woods yet.

You know yourself well and if previous experiences have caused you concern then you need to be guided by this.

Sadly, I have almost ditched my med which was quetiapine because of all the involuntary muscle movements.
I received a letter today from my CMHT because I have not kept appointments or been in touch.

This whole bipolar disorder annoys me so much and when I try to take control it is just like trying to grasp fog.

Could not find my new therapist today.

I am so pleased to hear that you can feels some improvement.

xx Harper
 
N

natalie

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
10,801
#3
Hi Calypso,

Good news that you are feeling a bit better. You have been missed on the Forums.


I hope you get much better soon.


Take care,


Natalie.
 
calypso

calypso

Well-known member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
41,475
Location
Lancashire
#5
Hi Calypso,

This is positive news even though I know you are not out of the woods yet.

You know yourself well and if previous experiences have caused you concern then you need to be guided by this.

Sadly, I have almost ditched my med which was quetiapine because of all the involuntary muscle movements.
I received a letter today from my CMHT because I have not kept appointments or been in touch.

This whole bipolar disorder annoys me so much and when I try to take control it is just like trying to grasp fog.

Could not find my new therapist today.

I am so pleased to hear that you can feels some improvement.

xx Harper
It is like trying to "grasp fog", I agree. I've been doing a year long research for BDRN (Bipolar Disorder Research Network) for Lancashire University, (with Cardiff and Birmingham), filling in questionnaires once a week on depression and mania. My graph is all over the place but recently out of max score of 27 for depression, I was scoring 24-25. Its still high, but I have to accept a level of depression to live with I think.

My only concern is that the 'man' will still be there but I just won't hear him. He will be working on my brain, distorting reality for me without control over him. But I am trusting this pdoc and taking these anti psychotics (Aripiprazole) and hoping that it works out. The pdoc says I will actually get more control over him in the end....here's hoping. This Pdoc is the only one who doesn't use the word psychotic, and I am grateful for that, as when people do use it, I clam up and get angry.

I'm getting headaches, (don't ever normally), but that is the battle inside me raging on. Please god/goddess let these drugs work!

I am sorry you are struggling too. I just came off the Quetiapine as life isn't worth it on them. I will say the Aripiprazole doesn't sedate at all and is worth a look.

Thank you to everyone else xxx
 
Last edited:
N

natalie

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
10,801
#6
Hi Calypso,

I'm just wondering; have you thought if you have been able to have thoiught, about maybe listening to music whilst you work at the desk, even for MHF, I am sure you might find, that music does have a powerful and soothing concentration effect.


I am feeling for you in terms of 15ml, because I too somehow don't feel that to be efficient enough dose to enable you to surpress your "the man", and when reaching 25ml dose of Aripipazole, for you, you might find that the 25ml dose has a better effect, and you'll be able to manage your day at a work for MHF much better.



These are just a couple of thoughts, ideas, which I have, off course, you can't tell the pdoc, to increase the doseage, you must let them do that, I am just saying 25ml of Apripazole, works very well, for me, interms of hearing voices, anxiety less anxiety, and less paranoia problems.


I wish you well and hope you get on well via your p doc next month,



Natalie.
 
calypso

calypso

Well-known member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
41,475
Location
Lancashire
#7
thank you. I think the pdoc is going to put it up to 25mg next time I see him, or even 30 which he suggested in passing. I am a little too better, bouncing around and HAPPY. Hmm I know the danger signs. As Aripirazole has strong anti depressant qualities and Mirtazepine is an AD, it could be I'm going too far. But I'm not under sleeping yet. I am a tad worried because the last thing I need right now is to go high.

But I doubt it will last and the 'man' is hysterics laughing in case that does happen, he still has some control. My daughter has filled my ipod so I will have LOTS of music and it drives the man mad as I can't hear him, although he does try to shout. I have heard him around the house too but my daughter hasn't, although I haven't asked her, so I will trust that I think. I am not balanced yet though.

Thank you for your kind responses, it does make a difference to me.
 
H

Harper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
337
#8
Hi Calypso,

Are you on Mirtazapine as well? I am on this same med and have been for years. The dosage has gone up and then down accordingly. I am now on 30 mg after reducing due to mixed mood. Bouncing is sort of good as long as you do not bounce too high. I suppose the M could be reduced if your mood begins to escalate. Do you have a history of going really high? Where are now appears to be better than the black pit you were in. Hope you continue to feel better.

xx Harper
 
calypso

calypso

Well-known member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
41,475
Location
Lancashire
#9
I'm all over the place. yes I'm on Mirtazepine 45mg and bouncing with sudden over whelming desire to seriously SH. Its not a mixed state as such - yet, but my daughter is worried, she's seen her mother through too much. She says I was a good mum but I feel guilty at what I've put them through.

Yes I can go very high, but not for about a year (or so) which is good. I did get 'arrested' by the police then for handing out £5 notes on the prom. A nice lady stopped and talked to me till they arrived. After I convinced them I wasn't on drugs, i was fine and they brought me home. Don't want to be like that again.

I don't know, I'm OK I think. I will see the pdoc in about 3 weeks time.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#10
did yall know there is heightened risk for mania with SSRI treatment?

No I didn't think so

(n)

Sucuri WebSite Firewall - CloudProxy - Access Denied


9 Out of 10 Bipolars Became This Way Through Antidepressant Induced Mania: Doctor Speaks
Thursday, September 23rd, 2010

Paragraphs 10 & 11 read: "When I took my psychiatric residency at Harvard in Boston and at SUNY in Syracuse in the early 1960s, we never saw or diagnosed bipolar disorder in children. In my four years of training, I saw one 19-year-old in a manic state and a few adults. When a person was admitted in a manic condition talking a mile a minute, imagining grand things about themselves, making outrageous plans, bursting with anger and energy, unable to sleep and otherwise euphoric, the condition was so unusual that we would hold grand rounds, a medical show-and-tell, to discuss the patient."

Now psychiatric wards are filled with patients having their second and third or umpteenth manic episode and every psychiatrist's day is filled with patients diagnosed bipolar. It's mostly about antidepressant-induced mania. Every single child I have evaluated who has suffered what looks like a manic episode has been taking stimulants or antidepressants, both of which cause mania. At least 9 out of 10 adults I've seen in the last two decades who have suffered emotional episodes that could be diagnosed as mania had them in direct response to stimulants or antidepressants–mostly the newer antidepressants starting with Prozac.

Making a Market in Antipsychotic Drugs: An Ironic Tragedy

Posted: September 23, 2010 08:00 AM

Remember not so long ago when Prozac became the world's largest selling medication of any kind, and then for years how Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft took over many of the top 10 spots? Remember the explanations at the time–that they were wonder drugs and that 15-50 percent or more of Americans would need them some time in their lives? To many people this seemed like a scientific breakthrough when in reality it was … a triumph of marketing. Some studies suggest that the antidepressants are little or no more effective than a sugar pill and a lot more dangerous. Recent research examined all antidepressant studies submitted in recent years to FDA in regard to antidepressant efficacy and found that the drug performed no better than placebo except in "severely depressed patients," reaching "clinical significance" only "at the upper end of the very severely depressed category." Even then, the difference between the antidepressant and the placebo was "relatively small."

In addition to being largely ineffective, the antidepressants can be very distressing to withdraw from, which keeps the market artificially inflated by people who would desperately like to stop but find the process too emotionally or physically painful. Often these individuals fail to realize that they are undergoing withdrawal and instead mistakenly conclude that they "need" the medication to control their original psychiatric problems.

Now look what have become the new top selling drugs in the world: antipsychotic drugs like Risperdal, Zyprexa, Abilify, Seroquel, Geodon and Invega. Although the FDA has been expanding the approved use of some of these drugs to some cases of autism, Tourettes and a variety of other problems, their original purpose and their main use in psychiatry until now has been largely confined to psychosis and acute mania. Psychosis and acute mania afflict a very small portion of the the population. Yet these drugs are now at the top of the list of most widely prescribed medications worldwide. How did these incredibly toxic chemicals become daily pharmacological mainstays for so many millions of children and adults? It's time to face the truth that the prescription of psychiatric drugs is driven by marketing trends–and now for the first time by something even more dreadful and insidious than mere marketing.

To begin their market campaigns for the newer antipsychotic agents, the drug companies created the myth that these products were not as dangerous as the old antipsychotic drugs, which were becoming recognized as highly toxic. Especially hard to ignore, it was demonstrated that the old antipsychotics cause tardive dyskinesia, a disfiguring and sometimes disabling array of abnormal movements in 5-8 percent per year cumulative of otherwise healthy patients and more than 20 percent of older patients. But even the unproven and ultimately false claim that the newer drugs were safer could not make a huge market for them. Even if these were wonder drugs, they were wonderful for a relatively tiny percent of the population. The drug companies had to create a new patient population market and that market became "bipolar disorder."

Once much rarer than schizophrenia, bipolar disorder would soon become one of the most common diagnoses made in medicine and psychiatry. Indeed, while ordinary folks used to talk about their biochemical imbalances and depression, now they've upgraded to having bipolar disorder.

Lithium, once the magic bullet without side effects for bipolar disorder–then called manic-depressive disorder–had turned out to be a severe central nervous system toxin that over the years ruins mental function while also producing thyroid disorders, kidney failure and a host of other serious problems. The discrediting of lithium created a new niche for antipsychotic drugs–to be used as "mood stabilizers" for people with severe ups and downs. But it was a relatively smalll niche to begin with.

Where would all the new bipolar patients come from? Many of them would come from the fertile imagination of drug company sponsored psychiatrists who found bipolar disorder in everything from toddlers with temper tantrums to adults with bursts of energy followed by a natural period of feeling fatigued. Leaders in child psychiatry like Harvard's Joseph Biederman were literally paid under the table to push antipsychotic medications for bipolar disorder in children. A recent study showed that children labeled bipolar actually receive more adult antipsychotic drugs than adults labeled bipolar . Another recent study covering 200-2002 showed that 18 percent of child visits to a psychiatrist included antipsychotic treatment, and 92 percent of those were for the newer so-called second generation drugs. It took a great deal of marketing to convince physicians that these relatively untried and highly toxic antipsychotic drugs are that safe and effective in children.

But even marketing bipolar disorder to the professions and the public was insufficient to create a huge enough market to satisfy the drug companies. Here's where the irony of ironies came into play. The newer antidepressants–once the leading drugs in the world–frequently cause mania. They do so in millions of patients, children and adults alike, every year. These once most popular drugs in the world by causing mania made and continue to make the market for the next wave of most popular drugs–the antipsychotic drugs being used as mood stabilizers.

How common is antidepressant-induced mania? Very common. Several studies have found that 6 to 8 percent of patients exposed to antidepressants will develop a manic disorder. One research study, for example, found in a retrospective study that Paxil produced mania in 8.6 percent of patients exposed. Other studies find the rates as high as 17 percent And if a person has already shown a manic tendency or has experienced a manic-like episode, antidepressants will pu
sh one-quarter to one-third into new manias (For a review, see P. Breggin, Brain-Disabling Treatments in Psychiatry, 2008, pp. 157-165) . Yet misguided psychiatrists commonly give antidepressants to patients diagnosed with bipolar disorder. The result? Millions of people suffer from medication-induced mania and other expressions of what I call "medication madness."

When I took my psychiatric residency at Harvard in Boston and at SUNY in Syracuse in the early 1960s, we never saw or diagnosed bipolar disorder in children. In my four years of training, I saw one 19-year-old in a manic state and a few adults. When a person was admitted in a manic condition talking a mile a minute, imagining grand things about themselves, making outrageous plans, bursting with anger and energy, unable to sleep and otherwise euphoric, the condition was so unusual that we would hold grand rounds, a medical show-and-tell, to discuss the patient.

Now psychiatric wards are filled with patients having their second and third or umpteenth manic episode and every psychiatrist's day is filled with patients diagnosed bipolar. It's mostly about antidepressant-induced mania. Every single child I have evaluated who has suffered what looks like a manic episode has been taking stimulants or antidepressants, both of which cause mania. At least 9 out of 10 adults I've seen in the last two decades who have suffered emotional episodes that could be diagnosed as mania had them in direct response to stimulants or antidepressants–mostly the newer antidepressants starting with Prozac.

In the official diagnostic system, these are not cases of bipolar mania but cases of medication induced mood disorder with manic features; but they are almost always mistakenly called bipolar disorder in order to avoid identifying the drug and the prescriber as the causative agents.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#11
more recent:

their marked difference from rates of antidepressant-associated mood switching leaves open the possibility that direct pharmacological, mood-elevating actions of antidepressants may be involved in mood switching, in addition to hypothesized “uncovering” or perhaps even “causing” of bipolar disorder. Of particular concern is that these ambiguous possibilities leave specifically uncertain the potential value of long-term treatment with antimanic or putative mood-stabilizing agents - See more at: ?Switching? of Mood From Depression to Mania With Antidepressants | Psychiatric Times
 
calypso

calypso

Well-known member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
41,475
Location
Lancashire
#12
Thank you BDU. ALL antiDs risk mania if given to a person with bipolar without a stabiliser too. Not just SSRIs, and with the combination I am on, I am monitoring myself well. I did know this, so thank you anyway though.

Mirtazepine (antiD I'm on) is a "noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA)" not an SSRI. Its safe with the aripiprazole as far as any meds are safe....
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#13
Thank you BDU. ALL antiDs risk mania if given to a person with bipolar without a stabiliser too. Not just SSRIs, and with the combination I am on, I am monitoring myself well. I did know this, so thank you anyway though.

Mirtazepine (antiD I'm on) is a "noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA)" not an SSRI. Its safe with the aripiprazole as far as any meds are safe....
well I saw my SW yesterday

she said I was the wellest shed ever seen me and shes pulling out (so to speak)

because ive quit all prescribed and am self treating with mj and shes happy about that because the Proof is right in front of her

happy well stable driven cogent logical calm and smiling

instead of

off tap screeching clawing at my own head like a retarded lion unable to even know what day it is<<<<legal treatment
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#14
Thank you BDU. ALL antiDs risk mania if given to a person with bipolar without a stabiliser too. Not just SSRIs, and with the combination I am on, I am monitoring myself well. I did know this, so thank you anyway though.

Mirtazepine (antiD I'm on) is a "noradrenergic and specific serotonergic antidepressant (NaSSA)" not an SSRI. Its safe with the aripiprazole as far as any meds are safe....
welp no one even MENTIONED it to me and I was sectioned only last fekkn week

you think it would've come up but No
\
all I got was a script for a DIFFERENT SSRI

one that made me go legally blind and sent my mania into stratosphere

what has been followup? NOTHING. NONE. ZILCH. ZERO. even my GP wasn't informed.

Disgraceful honestly. Not necessarily the meds themselves but the CAVALIER way they are bandied about.
 
calypso

calypso

Well-known member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
41,475
Location
Lancashire
#15
BDU, I took myself off my anti psychotics. I am still very ill, but getting better slightly now. Medication is necessary for me or I end up in intensive care unit near to death. I know some don't like them, I know also what happens to me when I am left without any.

I thought you had borderline,not bipolar? Just interested.
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#16
BDU, I took myself off my anti psychotics. I am still very ill, but getting better slightly now. Medication is necessary for me or I end up in intensive care unit near to death. I know some don't like them, I know also what happens to me when I am left without any.

I thought you had borderline,not bipolar? Just interested.
you thik yur confused

I got BPD because I saw a lazy little public health jerk who gave everyone bpd

but I don't fit criteria ---don't self harm, far too functional


stll don't know :shrug: current guy s a Socal worker thiks biplar 2

next gen also exhibiting weird MI symptoms my neice especially

the courts spent 3.5 k to send me to top psych ho basically said

NO IDEA shes too intelligent


they never knw when im joking as you may hae witnessed yourself cal x




personal take: ERD plus bipolar 2 rapid cycling possible Avoidant and Schizoid in there as well just for added zng
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#17
having said all that I remain the sanest person I know and am attending the suicide funeral of a Sane lovely boy from a Sane Lovely Family soon.

:shrug:
 
calypso

calypso

Well-known member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
41,475
Location
Lancashire
#18
Don't be hoodwinked by the "professionals" who say the two conditions are the 'same'. They aren't at all. Even the mood swings are totally different. Its lazy thinking by these 'professionals' who are about as pro as I am a wombat (Don't comment on that :LOL:).

You have to learn how to handle these morons. Always say things deadpan and don't joke, they have mainly had humour transplants, and have someone with you if possible. They behave themselves when they aren't alone with you. I still think there are a few good ones, but the bad ones are strongly there still.

I was alone last time with a psych nurse and a consultant. As soon as the consultant went out, she started in on me. I was bullied basically and I won't go alone again even if I have to drag someone off the street to be with me. (not seriously)
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#19
Don't be hoodwinked by the "professionals" who say the two conditions are the 'same'. They aren't at all. Even the mood swings are totally different. Its lazy thinking by these 'professionals' who are about as pro as I am a wombat (Don't comment on that :LOL:).

You have to learn how to handle these morons. Always say things deadpan and don't joke, they have mainly had humour transplants, and have someone with you if possible. They behave themselves when they aren't alone with you. I still think there are a few good ones, but the bad ones are strongly there still.

I was alone last time with a psych nurse and a consultant. As soon as the consultant went out, she started in on me. I was bullied basically and I won't go alone again even if I have to drag someone off the street to be with me. (not seriously)
fucking awful some of it

you need treatment to get over the treatment :hug:
 
BorderlineDownunder

BorderlineDownunder

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
17,146
#20
I also had my Automatic Respect gene dug out forcibly by two bully older brothers - if theres one thing I can thank em for its QUESTION EVERYTHING TRUST NO ONE
 

Similar threads