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ESA venting / rant

gray

gray

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
89
I haven't appealed yet but I will. I'm going to write my appeal over the next few days, I started today, so far it's very... tongue in cheek and sarcastic.
 
C

cant_carry_on

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
46
Location
Harrogate
Your joking? Did you have any welfare advisers with you? OR did you try to do it on your own?

This is also what is happening to me, but, cant_carry_on- it really goes deeper than that, why should you sign on for work when you cant work?

I'm slightly skeptical but, I'd happerly hedge a bet as to say that your defo not alone, and that because of the incompetence of the "doctors" on the assesment this wont be a singular issue.:mad:
I tried to do it on my own. It's getting a real struggle the signing on specially now they are trying to send me to a back to work group session.

I don't cope well with being around people I don't know so being stuck in a room with upto 8 of them should be interesting
 
dib4uk

dib4uk

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Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
2,182
Location
south london,england
Hmmm- really the best person to deal with that is someone with more knowledge than what I have.

Unless you go back to the doctor and "present" with new or worser symptoms- and then you send the certificate off to them. In the mean time best bet is to get welfare benefit help from Mind or the CAB.

The cycle would start again- but the next time you go for an assessment for ESA you'd have someone else there to help you.

Just a suggestion, hope it helps?
:(
 
gray

gray

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
89
I'm getting the wheels in motion but everything seems so slow. Trying to get help from organisations who kept bouncing me around to different organisations all day.
CAB waiting list is 3 weeks, that's too late.

I have an appointment with some welfare rights people but it is going to leave me with about a week left before my appeal has to have been submitted. So they better not be useless or I'm going to be representing myself :rolleyes:
Needs to be right first time though, have read that in a tribunial they will only consider the points I have a problem with that are sent in my appeal letter.

Can I just ask for your opinions (I realise you aren't legal advisors) what your interpretation of the following would be:

Statements from my medical report

Has no problems with social interaction
&
Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person

Always unable to deal with own finances due to lack of motivation. Requires help from father
&
Has no problem doing their routine chores due to their mental fuction
&
Always unable to do housework and tidy up because of poor motivation

Has given up taking part in leisure activities such as watching TV
&
Likes to watch television occasionally

There are more like this but I just want to know what comes to your mind first when reading these.
 
gray

gray

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
89
I realise no one has replied but...

To me these contradict each other massively and are significant to my case:

Has no problems with social interaction
&
Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person

So speaking only for "Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person". This is what ATOS have stated, so as far as the discriptors go...

(note I deleted the descriptors that talk about being agressive etc.)

Dealing with other people

a) Is unaware of impact of own behaviour to the extent that has difficulty relating to others even for brief periods, such as a few hours - 15 points

b) The customer misinterprets verbal or non-verbal communication to the
extent of causing himself or herself significant distress on a daily basis - 15 points

d) The customer misinterprets verbal or non-verbal communication to the
extent of causing himself or herself significant distress to himself for the
majority of the time - 9 points

e) Is unaware of impact of own behaviour to the extent that has difficulty relating to others for prolonged periods, such as a week - 6 points

f) The customer misinterprets verbal or non-verbal communication to the extent of causing himself or herself significant distress on a frequent basis - 6 points

g) None of the above apply - 0 points

Is it just me or does the statement mean that d) applies to me and that I should have been awarded 9 points for this alone?
 
dib4uk

dib4uk

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Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
2,182
Location
south london,england
That is the reason why its important to go along to the relative organisations in your area that can help you.

At least with someone there they can actuarly act on your behalf- the reason why the dsecriptors are put that way is to make sure that you score 0.
 
DiagnosisBipolar2

DiagnosisBipolar2

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
261
Location
Wiltshire
Hi Gray,
Sorry to hear of your current position however do not delay in submitting your appeal. You can appeal before seeing the CAB/legal advisor etc. As you only need to provide basic info initially. You can add the full facts later when you have sought help.

If you do decide to lodge an appeal the most important thing is to do so within one month of the date on the decision letter. Get a copy of booklet GL24 If you think our decision is wrong,which explains the appeals process and also includes an appeal form to tear out and complete.You can get the booklet from your local DWP office, jobcentre or advice agency. You can alsodownload a copy from the DWP website.The appeal form asks you for:

• Your name and address
• Your date of birth
• Details of your representative if you have one – don’t worry if you’re not sure if you can
get one yet, their details can be given to the Tribunals Service at any time
• Your national insurance number
• The benefit you are appealing about – this will be ESA
• The date shown at the top of the letter telling you about the decision – this is to check if
your appeal is within the time limits
• Why you disagree with the decision (see below)
• Your signature and the date

If you can’t get a copy of the form then you should write a letter containing all the information above. But bear in mind that the DWP are not obliged to accept an appeal that is not on theproper form, so only do this as a last resort.

An example appeal:


I wish to appeal against the decision that I do not have limited capability for work. I consider that I provided enough evidence for a finding to be made that I do have limited capability for work [if you think you should be in the support group add the words ‘and limited capability for work-related activity].

I do not consider that the decision maker took full account of the severity of my condition or of the way that it affects my everyday activities and bodily functions.[If you wish, you can give an example of why you think the decision maker got it wrong, such as:For example, in my questionnaire I stated that because of my depression I usually cannot motivate myself to do everyday things like getting out of bed, washing, dressing or eating breakfast unless my partner repeatedly encourages me. Yet I was awarded no points for this.This is only one example of why I think the decision is wrong.]

Please do not ask me to provide further details of my grounds of appeal as I will not be able to do so until I have been provided with a full copy of the papers and had the opportunity to try to get independent advice and support.

If you wish to contact me about this please do so in writing. I do not wish to receive any telephone calls as I consider welfare benefits too complex to be discussed over the telephone.I wish to have an oral hearing so that I can explain the full effects of my condition to a tribunal and answer any questions they may wish to ask.

Whilst my appeal is being considered I wish to remain in the assessment phase of ESA
[ Don’t add the last sentence if you are intending to claim JSA instead]

If you do wish to continue to claim ESA at the assessment phase rate it would also be worth writing a separate letter to the office dealing with your claim explaining that you have now made a formal appeal and wish to carry on claiming ESA.
 
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gray

gray

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
89
That example appeal is very helpful, thank you.

This bit in particular:
you can give an example of why you think the decision maker got it wrong, such as:For example, in my questionnaire I stated that because of my depression I usually cannot motivate myself to do everyday things like getting out of bed, washing, dressing or eating breakfast unless my partner repeatedly encourages me. Yet I was awarded no points for this.This is only one example of why I think the decision is wrong.
For starters it is irrefutable that they did not pay any attention to my questionnaire whatsoever, it has been completely ignored. Yet the decision says that my score has been decided on both the medical report and the questionnaire. It is so easy to see that someone in the office has just took one look at the medical report score of 0 and then hit their button for fail.

Like my previous example, how can you possibly read "no problems with social interaction" and "Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person" and then not think "hang on something is a miss here".

To top it off at one of those work related interviews (compulsory) a jobcentre employee told me that because I scored 0 on the medical, I will automatically fail and my questionnaire doesn't matter...

I'm starting to trickle through information on this forum about my case, believe me there is loads more, perhaps some of you can understand why I want to sue them.

Oh yes lets not forget the same jobcentre employee who also said "you're nothing new, you're just the new bad back".
 
gray

gray

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
89
Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person

Is it just me or does the statement mean that d) applies to me and that I should have been awarded 9 points for this alone?
Also looking up the word anguish in the Oxford dictionary provides you with the definition of "severe mental or physical pain".

So again how the hell did I not recieve atleast 9 points for this alone? They really are a joke that I have to do all this crap. Has done nothing but stress me out, make my condition worse, make me more tired and I can't help but obsess over it :eek2:

The other day I was so obsessed with it I was writing stuff at 2am about it, I spent the following day doing nothing but think and worry about it and felt like I was going to pass out.
 
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DiagnosisBipolar2

DiagnosisBipolar2

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
261
Location
Wiltshire
It's very unfair Gray and is causing many people lots of uneeded hassle. You must appeal though and claim what you are entitled to. Try and stay positive and get that form sent off.
 
C

Chrissyangel

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
2
ESA

Hi yes I got zero points too,I was so shocked,and the doctor told lies,I think one mistake I did i plucked up the courage and went there myself,but I had no option as i never had anyone to come with me. Now I am feeling really down waiting for the appeal to come,the date,they put it will be between 6 and 12 weeks,and I have to say if I will be available or not available at this time,now I am worried as i go away for 25 days in 12 weeks time,hoping this break will help me in my depression,I also have chronic back pain,and at last a doctor is sending me for a scan. I am glad I found this forum,and now will try to get in touch with Mind,and go to CAB,I do hope they will have someone to come with me to the appeal,a friend said he would come but I am not sure if that would help or not,he has illness himself,hearing voices etc,although he believes they are real etc,I think maybe it wouldn't help my appeal really to take him along.I just hope I can get some help from someone. I even asked my doctor for letter,as girl from benefits said they should give you a letter,but I have asked two doctors and they said you dont need letter,and they will contact them before the appeal,is this right does anyone no please? Lets hope all will turn out for us all.Appreciate any help thanks Chrissy:confused:
 
dib4uk

dib4uk

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Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
2,182
Location
south london,england
Hey Chrissyangel- welcome to the null point (o) points page :D

Well the only advice I can give anyone is get the appeal in- Atos? are paid to fail 1 in 3 cases, thats the government remit- and after searching another website that deals with disabilities- i was not surprised to learn that they also recieved null points- ouch!

Chrissyangel- yes go along to Mind or the CAB- I opted for Mind- and they can represent you at the tribunal. I dont know how successful it has become-because thats where I am at the moment.

All I can say is the sooner you put it in the better it is for you. Even if you write them-DWP- a letter stating that you want an oral hearing at your tribunal and state that the findings are inncorrect because ...... thats what I did, and so to make sure they received it- i dont trust these people-so i also filled out the appeal forms that I got when I called up the benefit enquiry team.

As i'm a natural born cynic- something in me says that if successful with the tribunal then you will get the money that you're legally entitiled to- and the system is in place so people will not go to tribunal.

Good luck with your case Chrissyangel.

Gray I understand and I'm hearing you- but try not to procrastinate too much. It doesnt have to be that long the letter or on the form- just state that you wish to have an oral hearing. :clap:

I totally understand- it has made weeks and days unbearable, and sometimes suicidial- and when you go to the welfare benefit advice place they will also write to your psychiatrist for proff to help build your case.
 
N

Napolean Today

Guest
I worry I might snap in that kind of setting. If I'd to spend the day with eight others looking for non-existent work it'd drive me to distraction. If any were hostile I can envisage me taking a knife in and getting into trouble. :tea:
 
R

ramboghettouk

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Founding Member
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Jan 7, 2008
Messages
15,889
Location
london
i remember my namesake as far as the kids in my last area were concerned rambo ryan, who commited the humgerford massacre, he took a gun on one of the employment schemes he was on, having been on those schemes and having experienced the underlying violence i felt i could understand it
 
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