ESA venting / rant

[gray]

Hello,

near the start of this month I had one of these ESA medicals, it seemed like the doctor was understanding but I felt I wasn't given the chance to fully explain things and I felt like it was rushed.

I recently requested a report and it came in the post today. I am baffled by it quite frankly.

According to the report I have mild depression and advice of a return to work in 3 months. However I have been scored 0 points by this doctor, how can I score no points and yet be seemingly deemed incapable of work for 3 months?
This is not the overall decision as that has yet to be made, but if I have been scored 0 points we all know where that leads...

Under "other conditions reported" it says "client states no other problems", this is false. I told the doctor I have anxiety issues and OCD, I tried to explain this a bit as well. I was told that these could be underlying issues due to the depression and that I should just leave talking about them for my counselling...

I have no problems with dressing apparantly (ok I don't physically), but I wear the same pair of shorts and t-shirt for a week or more before I change to different clothes. I hardly ever get dressed properly. This was all stated by myself.

I like to watch TV generally day time TV, strange really as I tend to not watch TV at all in the day and only watch it late at night, not sure where they got this one from.

I feed and care for my pet and occasionally walk it for 10 minutes... hhmm... that is why my dad feeds my dog basically every single time and why I generally only take my dog out about once every couple of months...

I have no problems travelling to new locations. Despite the fact I told them that if my dad didn't take me to the medical I wouldn't have showed up.

adequete eye contact... i remember spending most of my time staring at the floor and then getting anxious thinking i better look up before they think im a wierdo

I am well dressed and neatly kempt. Please... I shave my hair about once per 3-4 months and then let it grow again until it becomes unbareable (I have like excma and my head can get really itchy). I showed up with a bit of a beard which I still haven't shaved today actually. I wore a football top to the medical, same thing I do when I get dressed "properly" every time (doesn't need ironing) I wear baggy jeans (doesn't need ironing), see the trend? I wear whatever takes the least amount of effort. Though I was never given a chance to defend my self by stating any of this as they came to their conclusion mearly on thier observation.

This is one perticular thing which annoyed me greatly too, as I have said previously I wasn't given a chance to explain fully about anxiety / OCD etc. I have no reccurrent thoughts, complex sequences, internal debates, distressing repetitive thoughts etc etc... THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE and they would have known that if I was allowed to explain things fully.

I don't experience depersonalisation (the feeling of being unreal) don't know how they came to that conclusion as I was never asked about this sort of thing. I do sometimes feel things like this and what's the point in life, am I real? does anything really matter?

sorry for the rant but i just had to vent, just rang up my dad in work and had a good moan too

oh and to top it all off they have made a very big mistake, I have a single sheet that is someones actual decision. Their name, NI number, date of birth, how many points they scored etc. What should I do about this? Hang on to it as a sign of DWPs own incompetence?

 

[unlucky]

I'd get on to whatever health professionals you have and ask them for help with this. I get incapacity benefit so luckily I've not had to go through this but this is really scary if thats the way they are dealing with things. How many others must be in the same position?? I think I'd also get onto the CAB to see if they can help.

 

[dib4uk]

Hey hon!


Appeal.

Just dont accept what these people say to you- you know how you're feeling and as the other poster said contact your local mind charity or the CAB who can help you with the appeal.


These people who do the medical assesment are incompetent and really well i believe so, the "doctors" should be trained psychiatrist, psychotherapist and at least mental health nurses.

Oh hon, i just had to re-read your last statement, that is not only very poor practice but thats against the data protection act-- right? I think you shold tell them straight away.

 

[Apotheosis]

Grey - You come across as intelligent, articulate, insightful, & competent. You write, & express yourself very well.

Despite popular misconception - mental illness does not equate to stupidity, lack of insight, & incompetence. Indeed - Mental Illness can be found in people with the opposite of those traits.

That you, me, or anyone; can have insight into things, & articulate well our situations; & mental states - in no way negates the severity of 'mental maladies', or how we are affected & impacted by such things.

I get the same difficulties, & I know that others do too - we come across as competent, when a more accurate description would be an 'apparent competence'. So we are left arguing & focusing on illness. How mad is that? When we want to be, & get well? Some aspects of my life have become to such a degree an explanation, & of introspection, & self analysis - that freud would be proud of the levels of self assessment. It can make me feel like some kind of a computerised self diagnostic program, some days, or a reference manual. It's Crazy.

From playing a game of feigned sanity to get out out of nut houses - to arguing illness - you couldn't make it up.

 

[Apotheosis]

What should I do about this? Hang on to it as a sign of DWPs own incompetence?

Their incompetence is self evident - but evidence helps too.

 

[maudikie]

To Gray.

First i should see your G.P. aboout the condition on your head. It must be very distressing if it is irritating.
Regarding your application, I should talk to your G.P. about that as well, and ask his advice regarding your work, or referral to Social worker or advocate.

 

[gray]

Thank you for your kind words Apotheosis and yes it's quite sad that we seemingly have to become experts of our own medical condition just in order to argue a point across. I think it's also the everlasting search for the answer of why you are like you are, in some kind of vain attempt for a quick cure.

Anyway...

I have had my first introductory appointment with psychotherapy etc. just to take a look at my problems and decide which type of therapy I should take (counseling).

Atleast I know what type of condition I have now, they told me I have reactive depression from a lot of bad events throughout my life. I pressed them to give me some sort of guess if my case was converted into the scale of minor / moderate / severe, which would they say I am and they said moderate. Although this is all prelimanary at the moment so maybe they will say I'm worse / better with more appointments.

The talk with them delved far deeper than the ESA medical, so I'm inclined to believe the diagnosis of reactive (moderate) than simply just minor depression which ATOS have put. So I guess that's one more thing to disagree with on the ESA report and I could likely get some evidence from a mental health specialist.

I spoke with my normal doctor too and mentioned about ATOS, they said they have had a few cases of problems over ESA. Cases where their patient clearly couldn't work and they were just given 10 minute examinations and told they are fine etc. I mean it says everything really when your own doctor calls them terrible.

 

[DiagnosisBipolar2]

You have a month to appeal the decision. If you haven't left it too late I suggest you seek advice from your local law centre or CAB. A quick google search using the word ATOS will bring up some very interesting stories.

 

[dib4uk]

gray,

I believe we're in the similar boat. Book an appointment with your local Mind organisation- they have benefit and advice advisers there, thats where i have been this morning. Basically what you do is call them and explain to them and make an appointment- and take all the relevant documents to them and they can advise your further.


Dont let them win hon, as long as you post your appeal off then it will be fine.

Good luck, and if you need anymore help just let me know.

 

[gray]

I got decision letter today and of course 0 points scored.

I have begun picking apart their reports. I am honestly considering suing both the DWP and ATOS, this whole matter of lies, twisting etc has left me feeling more stressed and has lowered my mood over the course of it all. I really shouldn't have to go through all this crap but I guess that's their whole goal, they want to save money so they pray on the weak.

I have to say it really is only a matter of time before these fools provoke the wrong person and push them over the edge (if they haven't already).

 

[dib4uk]

I got decision letter today and of course 0 points scored.

I have begun picking apart their reports. I am honestly considering suing both the DWP and ATOS, this whole matter of lies, twisting etc has left me feeling more stressed and has lowered my mood over the course of it all. I really shouldn't have to go through all this crap but I guess that's their whole goal, they want to save money so they pray on the weak.

I have to say it really is only a matter of time before these fools provoke the wrong person and push them over the edge (if they haven't already).

Gray did you write on your appeal that you want an oral hearing?

Yes i understand 1000% on how you feel, i really do. I know how it makes you feel, mad-scared, angry, resentful, bitter.. and almost like hitting your head against a brick wall... and all for a few extra pounds in your pocket.

I heard back and they are paying me the standard rate of benefit untill my hearing- but they stil require a medical certificate to pay me, and my doctor is on holiday untill next week= it all takes sooo much time and effort and mental anqish to get what is yours.

On my report- well if you could call it a repot all of it had 0 on it, and I'm appealing.
Gray, my offer of support still stands.

 

[CompassionVictim]

Snap

I also got a zero score. I don't recognise the questions and half the answers are the opposite of the truth. And why was so much typing necessary after each of my monosyllabic responses? Perhaps this "professional" was working on a novel, or some other work of fiction in addition to the "assessment". I cannot understand how I could be so thoroughly misrepresented by mistake.

An appeal has been sent, but everything has been "lost in the post". Again. In fact the only document the DWP admit to receiving from me was the one sent by recorded delivery.

I don't usually believe in conspiracy theories but if there is not an intention by government officials to obstruct and delay benefit payments, the incompetence of the department is stunning.

 

[dib4uk]

I also got a zero score. I don't recognise the questions and half the answers are the opposite of the truth. And why was so much typing necessary after each of my monosyllabic responses? Perhaps this "professional" was working on a novel, or some other work of fiction in addition to the "assessment". I cannot understand how I could be so thoroughly misrepresented by mistake.

An appeal has been sent, but everything has been "lost in the post". Again. In fact the only document the DWP admit to receiving from me was the one sent by recorded delivery.

I don't usually believe in conspiracy theories but if there is not an intention by government officials to obstruct and delay benefit payments, the incompetence of the department is stunning.

Yeah it's beyond belief really that they can write and write stuff and yet still get null points. Even more so the incompetence of Astoms is beyond belief

CompassionVictim- yeah i believe that it might just be a conspiracy- and becuase of that, I wrote them a letter appealing and seeking oral hearing, and then i got them to send the appeal form and i did that- put the same thing that i wish to have an oral hearing- never put paper hearing.

Yeah they wrote to me on the 5th- after recieving my letter(s) on the 30th of July. I called them up and they said they recieved my appeal on the 30th. 2 days and i got the letter- and yet when you send in a certificate it can take a week or so.

Compassionvictim- your soo not alone.

 

[cant_carry_on]

I went through all of this with my claim and in the end i gave up on it and have to have my mum take me in to sign on every 2 weeks because the stress etc from going through the appeals was making me physically ill and I was finding it so difficult to cope that it was easier to have my mum take me to sign on every 2 weeks than it was to kepp fighting.

My dr still insists i should be on ESA but even his report did nothing for me in the appeal.

 

[dib4uk]

I went through all of this with my claim and in the end i gave up on it and have to have my mum take me in to sign on every 2 weeks because the stress etc from going through the appeals was making me physically ill and I was finding it so difficult to cope that it was easier to have my mum take me to sign on every 2 weeks than it was to kepp fighting.

My dr still insists i should be on ESA but even his report did nothing for me in the appeal.

Your joking? Did you have any welfare advisers with you? OR did you try to do it on your own?

This is also what is happening to me, but, cant_carry_on- it really goes deeper than that, why should you sign on for work when you cant work?

I'm slightly skeptical but, I'd happerly hedge a bet as to say that your defo not alone, and that because of the incompetence of the "doctors" on the assesment this wont be a singular issue.

 

[gray]

I haven't appealed yet but I will. I'm going to write my appeal over the next few days, I started today, so far it's very... tongue in cheek and sarcastic.

 

[cant_carry_on]

Your joking? Did you have any welfare advisers with you? OR did you try to do it on your own?

This is also what is happening to me, but, cant_carry_on- it really goes deeper than that, why should you sign on for work when you cant work?

I'm slightly skeptical but, I'd happerly hedge a bet as to say that your defo not alone, and that because of the incompetence of the "doctors" on the assesment this wont be a singular issue.

I tried to do it on my own. It's getting a real struggle the signing on specially now they are trying to send me to a back to work group session.

I don't cope well with being around people I don't know so being stuck in a room with upto 8 of them should be interesting

 

[dib4uk]

Hmmm- really the best person to deal with that is someone with more knowledge than what I have.

Unless you go back to the doctor and "present" with new or worser symptoms- and then you send the certificate off to them. In the mean time best bet is to get welfare benefit help from Mind or the CAB.

The cycle would start again- but the next time you go for an assessment for ESA you'd have someone else there to help you.

Just a suggestion, hope it helps?

 

[gray]

I'm getting the wheels in motion but everything seems so slow. Trying to get help from organisations who kept bouncing me around to different organisations all day.
CAB waiting list is 3 weeks, that's too late.

I have an appointment with some welfare rights people but it is going to leave me with about a week left before my appeal has to have been submitted. So they better not be useless or I'm going to be representing myself
Needs to be right first time though, have read that in a tribunial they will only consider the points I have a problem with that are sent in my appeal letter.

Can I just ask for your opinions (I realise you aren't legal advisors) what your interpretation of the following would be:

Statements from my medical report

Has no problems with social interaction
&
Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person

Always unable to deal with own finances due to lack of motivation. Requires help from father
&
Has no problem doing their routine chores due to their mental fuction
&
Always unable to do housework and tidy up because of poor motivation

Has given up taking part in leisure activities such as watching TV
&
Likes to watch television occasionally

There are more like this but I just want to know what comes to your mind first when reading these.

 

[gray]

I realise no one has replied but...

To me these contradict each other massively and are significant to my case:

Has no problems with social interaction
&
Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person

So speaking only for "Interaction with others is misinterpreted most days leading to mental anguish for the person". This is what ATOS have stated, so as far as the discriptors go...

(note I deleted the descriptors that talk about being agressive etc.)

Dealing with other people

a) Is unaware of impact of own behaviour to the extent that has difficulty relating to others even for brief periods, such as a few hours - 15 points

b) The customer misinterprets verbal or non-verbal communication to the
extent of causing himself or herself significant distress on a daily basis - 15 points

d) The customer misinterprets verbal or non-verbal communication to the
extent of causing himself or herself significant distress to himself for the
majority of the time - 9 points

e) Is unaware of impact of own behaviour to the extent that has difficulty relating to others for prolonged periods, such as a week - 6 points

f) The customer misinterprets verbal or non-verbal communication to the extent of causing himself or herself significant distress on a frequent basis - 6 points

g) None of the above apply - 0 points

Is it just me or does the statement mean that d) applies to me and that I should have been awarded 9 points for this alone?