Enlightened Witness

[*Sapphire*]

I am very eager to find myself an enlightened witness as described in Alice Millers books...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Miller_(psychologist)

However I am finding it very hard to locate one at all never mind in my vicinity.

I am very interested in a treatment in London which combines Alice Millers approach with Arthur Janovs as a form of Primal Therapy but it may mean going three times a week which I can not commit to working full time and with travel and costs etc.

Does anyone know of one? has any one ever found one? Did it make a difference? In fact do they exist?

However I have lately been learning about Jung and I quite like his approach but I am not sure how effective it will be in helping with my issues, I do wonder if it will be more of an interesting foray into my own psyche which I would very much like to do as a project but perhaps not as a therapy if that makes sense? If you can do such a thing?

Thanks in advance....

 

[Apotheosis]

I would like to look more into Alice Miller. I've not heard of Arthur Janov.

I do think that very much we can become our own psychologists, therapists, & our own counsel.

It is very possible to undertake our own Jungian analyse of ourselves. I do find that friends also that are following similar paths; can also be very therapeutic. There is also profound benefit in trying to deeply listen to another, & to help them out as best that we can, to be of service. In helping someone else dig themselves out of a hole, it is very often that we dig ourselves out of one as well.

I have Carl Jung's Red Book on order - I think that just reading it will be a cathartic Journey & therapeutic in itself.

But I do think that all these things are very expansive & they evolve; understandings change - perspectives change - The more that we find psychological space - the more things open up; & I have no doubt the 'inner'/subjective/micro cosmic world - is as massive & expansive as the 'outer'/objective/macro cosmic one. Our Inner Universe is as large as the Outer One - & both are largely unexplored, unknown, & undiscovered.

I like the saying 'Herein lies the 7 seas & myriad stars'.

 

[*Sapphire*]

Thank you for your reply Apo.

I would like to look more into Alice Miller. I've not heard of Arthur Janov.

I know more about Alice Miller myself than Arthur Janov but from what i've read the two approaches may work very well together. Alice Miller has a startling perception on how the most subtle events that can happen in childhood can have a profound effect on us as adults. And I mean really startling, the books i've read by her have been far more in depth and helpful then any standard psychotherapy I have had or any book i've read on the subject.

I do think that very much we can become our own psychologists, therapists, & our own counsel.

So yes given my above statement perhaps that is true. I guess I have been moulded into needing someone else there, but then again sometimes it is hard for me to spot things so I find it useful to have a guide or witness as such.

It is very possible to undertake our own Jungian analyse of ourselves. I do find that friends also that are following similar paths; can also be very therapeutic. There is also profound benefit in trying to deeply listen to another, & to help them out as best that we can, to be of service. In helping someone else dig themselves out of a hole, it is very often that we dig ourselves out of one as well.

That's also true but to find such friends who have that maturity and insight is hard work. I have found being on here deeply therapeutic though, offering support and a listening ear has brought my own life issues into focus and my perspectives that were so rigid in many ways before are rapidly expanding.

I have Carl Jung's Red Book on order - I think that just reading it will be a cathartic Journey & therapeutic in itself.

I think I may try to read that myself, please let me know what it is like.

But I do think that all these things are very expansive & they evolve; understandings change - perspectives change - The more that we find psychological space - the more things open up; & I have no doubt the 'inner'/subjective/micro cosmic world - is as massive & expansive as the 'outer'/objective/macro cosmic one. Our Inner Universe is as large as the Outer One - & both are largely unexplored, unknown, & undiscovered.

I agree.

I like the saying 'Herein lies the 7 seas & myriad stars'.

I like that saying too.
BTW you have a good memory Apo, I wish I could remember all the quotes and phrases you do! Have you built yourself a memory palace to do that or is this something that you are naturally adept at? I have a shocking memory, so it makes it hard for me to draw on all the quotes, texts and responses I have gathered in my lifetime!

 

[Apotheosis]

Alice Miller has a startling perception on how the most subtle events that can happen in childhood can have a profound effect on us as adults. And I mean really startling, the books i've read by her have been far more in depth and helpful then any standard psychotherapy I have had or any book i've read on the subject.

I realise more & more the deep effect of childhood - 'it is the boy that maketh the man'. Maybe things also go back further? I am a reincarnationalist. I will try & have a read of a Alice Miller book sometime.

So yes given my above statement perhaps that is true. I guess I have been moulded into needing someone else there, but then again sometimes it is hard for me to spot things so I find it useful to have a guide or witness as such.

Of course - & for us all. But there is an aspect of being our own witness. Such ideas can be found in the works of Eckhart Tolle (among others); & with the awareness of the Eternal 'Other'.

That's also true but to find such friends who have that maturity and insight is hard work.

Of course - all relationships are hard work. Finding like minded people can be difficult. I am grateful today to have good people in my life. But I find different perspectives interesting; I don't just want agreement. It is more finding people with more experience of certain areas that I have. Women have been very helpful in this regard over the past year - it is another perspective.

I have found being on here deeply therapeutic though, offering support and a listening ear has brought my own life issues into focus and my perspectives that were so rigid in many ways before are rapidly expanding.

That's good - I'm glad that it has been a help to you.

BTW you have a good memory Apo, I wish I could remember all the quotes and phrases you do! Have you built yourself a memory palace to do that or is this something that you are naturally adept at? I have a shocking memory, so it makes it hard for me to draw on all the quotes, texts and responses I have gathered in my lifetime!

Memory is very strange with me, I vary from day to day with recall & in how articulate I am. Some days things are foggy; & other days clear. Google is your friend.

 

[enlightened]

Art Janov, believes some traumas do not have access to words because they were experienced pre-verbally, Alice miller makes it clear that Words must be found for all traumas, a discourse must be found between the child we were and the parent that abused us. The two are imcompatable in real terms. I would run with Alice Miller, all sufferering occurs because we were silenced and made to adapt to our parents needs, why should we be silent about our suffering?

 

[*Sapphire*]

why should we be silent about our suffering?

A good question. IMO we shouldn't.

Have you found an enlightened witness yet my friend?

 

[oneday]

Hi Sapphire,

Don’t know if this info might help: it’s years ago now, but I’d read Alice Miller’s book ‘The Drama of Being a Child’ (and maybe other of her books by that time) which really resonated for me, and I came across an ad in a cafe I used to go to from a psychotherapist where he mentioned influences such as Alice Miller (also RD Laing, Carl Jung, Karen Horny, John Bowlby, Taoism, Buddhism… those that I remember, but lots of others too). This was in London, though I know he doesn’t live/work here anymore. He was then in training at a school of psychotherapy in London that, I think, had ‘Inner Child’ in the title (I forget what it was exactly), but I know it has changed names a few times since, and it is now called ‘The Bowlby Centre’ (John Bowlby was a (child) psychoanalyst/psychiatrist who focused on the importance of our secure attachment to our mother/parents/caregivers for our mental health), see: www.thebowlbycentre.org.uk - if you go to ‘About us’ you’ll see them mention Alice Miller among their other influences. Anyway, I saw this therapist for about two years, once a week. He was pretty affordable because he was a trainee, though had had lots of previous mental health experience.

Of course there are going to be other therapists, trained in other schools of therapy (perhaps especially in the ‘humanistic’ or ‘integrative’ schools of therapy), who will be aware of or influenced by Alice Miller - and I’d hope that many psychotherapists would act as an ‘enlightened witness’ to the pain of our childhood (and beyond). It would then be a case of asking them, I guess.

I’ve said this elsewhere, but I can't imagine coming through all the distress and confusion in my life without having someone to go to regularly (at least weekly) who listened to me and who I felt accepted by, as well as appropriately/gently challenged, to help me work out the whys and wherefores, and the meanings, of my difficulties.

There’s also mention above about counselling with peers. Just to mention co-counselling that some people find really useful. Co-counselling communities exist all over the world, including the various areas of London. You learn the basics of this approach through attending 40 hours of a ‘fundamentals’ course over several weeks, for which there’s a charge (though they try not to exclude anyone due to financial circumstances), then you set up your own co-counselling sessions which of course are free. There’s two main international bodies for co-counselling (there was a split): ‘Re-evaluation Counselling’ and ‘Co-counselling International’. Google them, or I can find out more if you want.

 

[oneday]

As for Arthur Janov's 'Primal Therapy', I don't know much about finding therapists trained in this approach. To be honest, it's always scared me a bit - I've imagined it's about going too deep too quickly for what I'd be able to cope with personally.

 

[*Sapphire*]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply Oneday that is really useful information.

I've chatted with a few therapists and they believe that a place in London could help me, in fact similiar to what you mentioned, people who are trainees. But I was told I would have to commit to five days a week for two years, which is impossible for me, and I really don't like going into London very much.

But i will certainly look into what you mentioned further, perhaps these people have contacts locally.

I’ve said this elsewhere, but I can't imagine coming through all the distress and confusion in my life without having someone to go to regularly (at least weekly) who listened to me and who I felt accepted by, as well as appropriately/gently challenged, to help me work out the whys and wherefores, and the meanings, of my difficulties.

That statement is true for me too, although I need to do some further work I couldn't have got as far as I have without that kind of support, acceptance, validation and acknowledgement. I believe that kind of help would help so many if not all members here too.

 

[philmriv]

MediTation can expand on this.

The use of mediTation can expand on this.

A lot of Eastern meditation traditions involve "developing a witness" (an inner stance of neutral and detached 'watching', both within and without).

This can also really be good for mental health issues.

**Helps you to separate from, or get a new perspective on, your problems.

And in the case of emotional problems, can even help difficult emotions (or compulsive urges) to dissolve, which can help tremendously. (For example, this can be great for OCD and also other anxiety disorders.

In my case, this sort of meditation has really helped my social anxiety problem. (And my OCD problem).