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Endogenous depression? and other terms

rollinat

rollinat

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This is probably a daft question - my GP has talked about my having endogenous depression, the psychiatrist talked about severe depression and the CPN said depressive episode. I am assuming they are all ways of saying the same thing but I'm not sure. I don't suppose it matters unduly, just it is sometimes easier to have it clear in my own head (ha! clarity - what's that?!) and then easier to have something to say to others.

TIA.

Rollinat
 
yakuza

yakuza

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Endogenous depression

The definition goes something like this....

Endogenous depression is a mood disorder that some people are born with. It's believed it's genetical - either inherited, or 'given' as genetic disposition. A sufferer, although is prone to get depressed on occasions of traumatic events, exhaustion or high stress may not be aware of the disorder until confronted by the notable and impairing symptoms of depression for the 1st time. Depressive episode can occur at any age, or despite the predisposition may never become a serious problem. The severity of depressions for this diagnosis vary greatly (from mild to severe).

Worsening of persons mood may not be triggered by any external element. It's hard to determine its endogenous origin. Mostly is sufferer first confronted with life events that might trigger depressive condition, and just when no particular source of the mood disorder is found, the depression is considered endogenous.

The treatment, however, is basically identical with treatment of non-endogenous depression, with exception of necessity of non-pharmaceutic therapy, which is meaningless, if roots of the depression are endogenous. Although psychotherapy isn't usually prescribed, knowledge of techniques to deal with stress and anxiety may be beneficial to the patient.



It seems that it would be worth finding out as much as possible about this Rollinat,hope that helps anyway :)
 
rollinat

rollinat

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Thanks for that Yakuza - made interesting if not exactly encouraging reading. Thanks for taking the time to reply - much appreciated.(y)
 
yakuza

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You're very welcome rollinat.

I had'nt realised that there were so many types of depression,I am still learning all that I can about mine (psychotic depression) but please post any information that you feel comfortable with as I think we can all learn from each others experiences.

Good luck with everything (y)
 
nickh

nickh

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rollinat - the most important fact in this area is that no-one has the definitive answers. So definitions like 'endogenous' are contested ones and while there may be a majority within the psychiatric profession who accept a particular definition there will also be some who disagree. (If someone did have the answers then they would be able to find a cure, then we could cure depression, then this Forum - or the part of it for depressives - would cease to exist :D).

'Severe' of course is a different matter - that is just a measure of how bad your depression is - from 'mild' to 'severe'; its a rating system just like that for movies. It is measured by the presence of a range of symptoms. Any 'type' of depression can be 'rated'.

But for the types the matter is one of contention. How much weight is attached to medical, psychological, social factors varies according to who you are reading. Broadly I think it is agreed that there is a difference between those types of depression which can be traced to some specific cause (eg: post-natal depression, a bereavement these are also termed 'reactive depression' for obvious reasons) and those which can't (ie; for which there is no obvious cause). The latter are called endogenous. But some people argue that this is just a cop-out and that there is in fact always some under-lying cause - its just that it hasn't been discovered.

Personally I am fairly conventional and believe that there are genetic/chemical predispositions to depression, which will lead to someone who has those predispositions being much more likely to experience depression. But on the other hand I think it likely that for the vast majority of people there will be some trigger, although that will often be very far from obvious or current.

I was diagnosed with endogenous depression and have always had pharmaceutical treatment, but finding the right psycho-therapist has also been enormously important for me. As we say so often here everyone is an individual and it is an individual solution which will enable everyone to cope with their condition.

But one does have to be aware that different branches of the psychiatric/psychological professions do at times like to push their own particular agendas! :rolleyes:

Unless and until they find a pill which works for everyone 'endogenous' depression is little more than a label really. It may have some use but should never stop anyone searching for the right individual coping strategy for themselves.

Well that is my (wholly amateur!) view anyway.

Nick.
 
rollinat

rollinat

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Nick, thank you for your (as ever) considered, informative and useful reply. I tend to agree with you in that there are those who are predisposed to depression, and it seems that I am one. I'm in two minds as to whether that makes it better or worse. Better in that it makes it seem (to me) more of a real illness so I can start working on those feelings of guilt that I'm just being pathetic / weak / selfish. Worse in the fact that if it is part of me then will this always be the case, and am I in fact more looking at management rather than cure?

But you are right - looking for the right coping strategy is the way forward in any case, regardless of the possible causes of the depression. I feel more supported at the moment and that certainly does help. I am feeling a lot more positive today and feel like I don't need anything - drugs, counselling, the whole lot - but I know on other days that is very far from the truth.

Thank you again.

Rollinat
 
yakuza

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Hi rollinat,

It took me a long long time to accept that I was ill,never mind accepting the label that came on the package.
Shame,guilt,and low self-esteem can result from the mistaken belief that to express pain is a sign of character weakness,but these feelings are in fact symptoms of the illness.

Cognitive behaviour therapy has become increasingly recognized as a valuable tool in treating many types of depression.
It is essentially a way of changing low mood and the consequent behaviour by modifying the underlying negative thoughts.It is very much a way of treating the cause rather than just dealing with the symptoms and although the term 'endogenous' may refer to no obvious cause,I would like to think that finding and approaching any way of dealing with the ups and downs of daily life would be extremely helpful.
I don't think there is a definitive 'cure' but rather long term 'self-management' is and can be beneficial to all of us.

:)
 
rollinat

rollinat

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Thanks Yakuza. I have looked into CBT and I hope it will be a way for me to make the right changes in my life. I did look at an online version a couple of months ago but it was too hard for me to do it on my own at that point - was too low and couldn't think of anything positive about myself. I haven't looked since as I would like to keep thinking that I am making some progress so don't want that to be disproved. But my GP has referred me to a psychologist and I think that will be for CBT so hopefully it won't be too long before I get that appointment through. Have you found it useful yourself?

Rollinat :)
 
yakuza

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Hi rollinat

I found that it gave me a base to work from and helps keep me more stable and realistic for longer periods than before.
Once I'd finished the course I spoke to my GP about 'where to go now' and he pointed me in the direction of group therapy which was okay in theory,but the reality is that I suffer with chronic dizziness and find groups very difficult to deal with (I did give a go for a short time).

Although CBT does'nt work for everyone,for many people it can help break the negative spiral of altered thinking,feelings and behaviour.
It aims to get us to a point where we can do things ourselves and work out ways of tackling problems.
It's about identifying where we can make improvements and turn the negatives into positives although my therapist correct me for continually referring to my changing thought patterns as a new 'positive thinking' mode as it was really about more 'realistic' thinking.

I realised after a while that I had been focussing on my symptoms when I should have been concentrating on the cause of them.
CBT concentrates on the 'here and now' but talking about the past and getting things out 'in the open' helps build a picture of how the past affects us now.

Forgive me if I've gone off subject but I'm afraid my dizziness has grabbed a hold of me :confused:,I'm sure that you will find your appointment very helpful and will be able to take many positives from it.

Take care and good luck with the psychologist (y)
 
nickh

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rollinat - thanks for the kind words :). You are absolutely right - it is both positive and negative. And the really important thing is getting a coping strategy which works for you.

And yakuza hope the dizziness is better now.

Nick.
 
Libra1

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Hi Yakuza, have been following this topic with interest. I know this may seem like a daft question - how long does one usually stay with a therapist/counsellor for when doing Cbt? Am interested as I am starting this shortly and cannot get a straight answer from lady I work with.

I started a daily journal at begining of the year and not really done anything else with counsellor?
 
yakuza

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Hi Libra1,

Most courses last between 10-15 weeks depending on the severity of problem,obviously some people are affected physically which involves working with a physio as well.

It does involve doing a little 'homework' but as you've said,you have been keeping a diary which is a great advantage once you get to your appointment.
The therapist will give you a questionaire for you to fill in and update on a daily basis,it explains how you feel on a day to day basis,the therapist will go over this with you and together you will be able to analyze where and if you need to make certain improvements.

I found that it gave me a benchmark for my good and bad days and it really can help you cope better in the long term.

I really hope it goes well for you,I'd be interested to know how you get on,good luck with everything (y) :)
 
rollinat

rollinat

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Thanks for the info on CBT Yakuza - it sounds like it has really helped you. I have had a few good days this week so I think it would be a good time to start something like that, so I hope I get my appointment through soon.

Thanks again.

Rollinat :)
 
J

jamesdean

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Can i get some answers

Hi rollinat ive wanted 2 get involved in conversation. Ive posted stuff on a couple of places. The thing is this conversation is about types of depression. U c i had a kinda partial diagnosis in 2000. "ongoing dysthymic state with bouts of probable clinical depression" i understand this as chronic(long term)
They say that labels dont help im not so sure its helped me go 4ward. Though now having joined this forum. i think may b i should b asking some questions of the mental health team. Ive been quite happy keep going 2 my 3monthly appointment ( which is just 2 check that im alive).
I havent had much in put from the team lately n i guess thats because i really do look after my own health. I have done stuff, cbt n seen a psycoligist(that was 2 years) cut short though with my mental health social worker killing herself almost b4 my very eyes n which it was even suggested that i'd killed her! A comment i just had 2 accept which i didnt like.
Should i b asking 4 an up 2 date report? I guess it does all depend where u r in your life, but i dont want 2 keep answering my own questions. I do worry by not screaming down the phone 2 the out of hours it might seem that im ok. But it sounds 2 me like perhaps i should get some up 2 date questions answered. Could some 1 please tell me how should i aproach the subject @ my next apointment on 12th june( i mean its been quite nice keep seeing very kind doctors each time) Sorry have posted in the right place? I worry i might end up on some1s ignore list, i get very paranoid.
i wrote a little about my journey on journals yesterday.Am i making sense. ithink ive been asleep 4 many years not realising there is a whole world. This as been great finding this forum.So if i clarify this reply! should i b asking 4 more of a deeper look in2 the kinda depression? Ive known i was suffering with depression since aged 8 n it took until age 38 2 get any answer at all n a lot of very difficult times. I dont think theres ever geen clinical depression in the family. My social worker who killed herself said it was genetic cause her mum had it 4 years. I know im not bipolar cause idont get manic. I mean i was very manic the years i worked n engaged in the normal world n i do feel i should of killed myself then on a high i might of got it right.
I do go on but i seem 2 have a million questions in my head all trying 2 get out. I have found that since the anti depreesants i can now listen 2 the radio not thinking there r secret messages 4 me. n music i think was my 1st love falling in love with Marc bolan in 1970. I was told @ clinic the voices r from myself i never quite understood that but in glad i dont hear them no more thanks 2 abilify. Lastly i 4get that 2x 80mg of half inderal stop the physical shakes. I would love 2 here some comments i notice people on the forum talk about phsyio's, Is this a new thing? Cheers james:grouphug:
 
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