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Do you mean what you say when you are calm, or manic?

M

molmillicent

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So..I am not bipolar, and I dont understand *everything* about it, so I am sorry if anything I say is offensive, I am just wanting some answers.

My boyfriend was diagnosed bipolar by 3 different doctors ..However, 2 independent shrinks that he has found (and never met in person,phone appointments only) have told him they dont think he's bipolar, only anxious, so he has decided they are accurate and the others arent and refuses medication. (he was taking meds briefly and there was a noticeable improvement, but he's since gone off)

We have been together for 8 years.. He was in his early 20s when we met and had some anger issues but was never violent...I had very much thought (and still do) that he had asperger's , but didnt think bipolar.. After he turned 30, he got some medical issues that still havent been resolved so he thinks his change in personality is due to that ..but I have read that some men dont really display bipolar symptoms until they are in their late 20's -early 30s.


he has gotten violent, totally changed, blames me for his medical issues (or for not screaming at doctors who cant find the issue because he believes screaming at them will make them suddenly discover whats wrong with him).
When he is calm he is very calm, he loves me , and I feel loved..when he is being manic I am his worst enemy, he hates me, says and does things I wouldnt do to my worst enemy etc.

I guess my question is .. How do I know which him is the real him..? Does he still love me and just says hurtful things to get under my skin? ..or ..when you are having an episode, do you just say what you really feel? ..and how do you deal with someone that you love so much and that half of the time loves you back and the other half thinks you are a fat piece of garbage that they couldnt possibly love?
 
K

keith74

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Hello,

he has gotten violent, totally changed, blames me for his medical issues (or for not screaming at doctors who cant find the issue because he believes screaming at them will make them suddenly discover whats wrong with him).
When he is calm he is very calm, he loves me , and I feel loved..when he is being manic I am his worst enemy, he hates me, says and does things I wouldnt do to my worst enemy etc.
Sounds like he may indeed be bipolar and what you described above is classic behavior during a dysphoric manic episode. My wife had a dysphoric manic episode last year and she said similar things of how she is disgusted by me, is furious at me, never loved me, wants a divorce, threw objects at my head (rolling pin!), etc.

bipolar is hard enough to diagnosis by a trained professional in person... so imagine how hard it would be to do it over one phone call!

Something similar happened to my wife last year when her mania was ramping up. She has been diagnosed with bipolar for over 20 years. Then she had a different psychiatrist see her for like 30 minutes who said maybe she doesn't have bipolar but is instead only GAD and PTSD. That was enough for her manic mind to say "I KNEW IT! I WAS NEVER BIPOLAR AND THIS CONFIRMS IT!". She completely went off her meds, became very manic, and after being hospitalized for a month, doctors were able to convince her to take some meds to bring her mania down (which it eventually did). The reason why my wife and your boyfriend likes to hear that they may not be bipolar is because when you are manic, you tend to feel great about yourself and feel there is nothing wrong. You begin to doubt if you really have an illness and want to hear someone confirm this (and seek this confirmation).

You may want to check out this related discussion about dealing with a partner who had a dysphoric manic episode:
 
S

SFGuy

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he has gotten violent
Please remember your first priority: stay safe.

I'm so sorry your boyfriend is exhibiting such dark symptoms, but if he's violent, regardless of his diagnosis, you need to protect yourself.

Are you in counseling or have you considered it? Your boyfriend's dark moods have to be affecting your mental health.
 
C

CabbageMama

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I am never cruel or unkind when manic. I am very honest, which gets me in to hot water sometimes, but only because I lose my filter. Stay safe. X
 
M

molmillicent

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thank you all for your responses. i am sorry you are dealing with the same kind of thing..It is rough.

I am not currently in any kind of therapy but I know it has definitely affected my mental health.. I am currently at the frame of mind where I never want another relationship again and I feel like in my 30's , maybe I'm too young to be that tainted? ..or maybe not.

CabbageMama, let me ask you a question and PLEASE do not take offense.. I mean none, just trying to figure this out..

so..when he's being manic, one of the things he says, repeatedly, and actually INSISTS on, is that he's 'telling the truth' .. he will say 'Im your best f*cking friend right now!' and "youre just mad because I tell you the TRUTH!" ..the thing is the things he saying are not true..he will say something I've done to him or recant an incident but be COMPLETELY wrong about what happened (mostly his own behavior in the situation), but, he is not purposely trying to lie..he really thinks that's what happened..

so, my question, (and again, I mean no offense) ..are you sure you are just speaking the truth? Or does it go beyond that? I know everyone is different..so, I am really just curious.

Again I thank you all for your responses and I am sorry it's taken me so long to respond
 
K

keith74

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so..when he's being manic, one of the things he says, repeatedly, and actually INSISTS on, is that he's 'telling the truth' .. he will say 'Im your best f*cking friend right now!' and "youre just mad because I tell you the TRUTH!" ..the thing is the things he saying are not true..he will say something I've done to him or recant an incident but be COMPLETELY wrong about what happened (mostly his own behavior in the situation), but, he is not purposely trying to lie..he really thinks that's what happened..

so, my question, (and again, I mean no offense) ..are you sure you are just speaking the truth? Or does it go beyond that? I know everyone is different..so, I am really just curious.

Again I thank you all for your responses and I am sorry it's taken me so long to respond
I suppose it depends on the individual and how intense the episode is.

As mentioned, my wife had an intense dysphoric manic episode last year. It is common to lose all insight during these episodes. So the person who is manic really does think that what they are saying is the truth at the moment. They have convinced themselves that it is truth, even if it really is not the truth. One of the most common phrases my wife said during this time was "I've never had more clarity" or "I've never been so sure" or "I've finally figured it all out". And she was so convincing that I actually believed some of it and actually did some things she asked - which was a bad move. When she calmed down, she would ask "why did you end up doing that?" and I'd be like "you said that you've never been more sure that you wanted "x" to happen" and she would be like "I can't believe I said that, that's not true. I was just really angry in general. Why did you believe me when I'm like that?".

So you are correct, he is likely not intentionally trying to lie but when manic, that person is all emotion with no filter and no insight and will blow everything way out of proportion. The biggest mistake I made in my wife's last manic episode is actually believing some of what she said when she was manic. It nearly ended our marriage.
 
G

Ginger Kitten

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Surrey, Uk
The violence worries me. I get very angry, agitated and shouty when manic but I'm never violent and I'm pretty sure violence isn't considered part of dysphoric mania. I agree with SF Guy, above, in this situation your safety should be your first priority, both physical and emotional. It doesn't sound to me as if the relationship is viable unless your partner gets treatment - and in his aggressive moods, he sounds positively dangerous. Do stay safe. KR, GK.
 
LunaBloodmist

LunaBloodmist

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I struggle with this, a lot. I wonder which me is the real me. I have core beliefs to an extent, but when I'm down, I'll remember when I was up and think who the fuck was that? and vice versa. I have been violent and said many hurtful things, but I'm definitely not happy about it. Drugs have amplified that behavior in my case. I agree, as much as you love him, keep yourself safe. It's okay to want to be there for him, but not at the cost of you're own sanity and safety. Medication has definitely helped decrease the amount and intensity of mood swings, but the trick is agreeing to take them..I am very emotionally intense, its a process to stop and try to be logical about things. I have therapy twice a week, and she still wants me to have more sessions. Ultimately, he needs good professional help, and to be open to it. There are many techniques he can benefit from. Like others have stated, when you're manic you may not think there is anything wrong, but just because you *feel* okay for that moment doesn't mean you should stop treatment. I hope it works out for you.
 
Zero One

Zero One

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So..I am not bipolar, and I dont understand *everything* about it, so I am sorry if anything I say is offensive, I am just wanting some answers.

My boyfriend was diagnosed bipolar by 3 different doctors ..However, 2 independent shrinks that he has found (and never met in person,phone appointments only) have told him they dont think he's bipolar, only anxious, so he has decided they are accurate and the others arent and refuses medication. (he was taking meds briefly and there was a noticeable improvement, but he's since gone off)

We have been together for 8 years.. He was in his early 20s when we met and had some anger issues but was never violent...I had very much thought (and still do) that he had asperger's , but didnt think bipolar.. After he turned 30, he got some medical issues that still havent been resolved so he thinks his change in personality is due to that ..but I have read that some men dont really display bipolar symptoms until they are in their late 20's -early 30s.


he has gotten violent, totally changed, blames me for his medical issues (or for not screaming at doctors who cant find the issue because he believes screaming at them will make them suddenly discover whats wrong with him).
When he is calm he is very calm, he loves me , and I feel loved..when he is being manic I am his worst enemy, he hates me, says and does things I wouldnt do to my worst enemy etc.

I guess my question is .. How do I know which him is the real him..? Does he still love me and just says hurtful things to get under my skin? ..or ..when you are having an episode, do you just say what you really feel? ..and how do you deal with someone that you love so much and that half of the time loves you back and the other half thinks you are a fat piece of garbage that they couldnt possibly love?
I am sorry you are hurting. My bipolar is combined with schizophrenia which may cause it to be different for me, but what I see is the manic, the normal, and the depressive. When going through any one of these I totally mean what I say, but my reasoning is different in each one so when my reasoning capacity changes I may feel hurt or even traumatized by the things I have done and said especially to a loved one, and I love someone so much that I get medicated to be sure that even when I am enraged I am still able to think and not hurt him. I wasn't always like this though, there was a time when I found the abnormal as normal and thought I was ok and my mental health just fine when I was getting to know the controllers and controls which totally qualifies me for crazy, but a lot of people offline tell me I am doing fine and they are proud of me because of an ordeal I am in but coming out of. I have hurt a lot of people severely, or it may not be a lot to others but it is a lot in my opinion.
 
Wishbone

Wishbone

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Going off meds and completely changing, including being aggressive or violent, can certainly be a sign of a manic episode (more likely dysphoric mania than euphoric mania, for obvious reasons). It's more common in men, again, for what should be obvious reasons (and the thing about men not showing signs until late 20's/early 30's isn't true as far as I know, certainly for me it was 18 years of age). I've been there myself and completely lost it, destroying things like doors. Quite simply, he needs to be on his medication and if he doesn't get back onto them, and the anger/violence continues (was this violence towards you or towards objects, like doors etc?) then you would have to be looking at a possible hospital stay to get him right again. He'd hate you for that of course, but long-term, and once well, he'd understand you were only looking out for him and that he was out of control.
If he can't function day-to-day: like going to work, socialising with friends, seeing family, or mundane daily activities like shopping without problems ensuing, then this would be the time to think about an admission. This on top of what sounds like a lack of insight and possible delusional thoughts. This does not mean the end of the relationship though, if he takes medication his illness can be a lot more manageable.
The last thing I wanted to ask about was how often these episodes happen. He's in one now by the sounds of things but how long has this been going on and when was he last like this?
 
C

CabbageMama

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I say things I might not usually, like someone said, like losing your filter. I am usually over confident and certain I am right, yes, but never ever mean or nasty. what you are experiencing isn’t ok, whatever health conditions your boyfriend is dealing with.
 
K

keith74

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I say things I might not usually, like someone said, like losing your filter. I am usually over confident and certain I am right, yes, but never ever mean or nasty. what you are experiencing isn’t ok, whatever health conditions your boyfriend is dealing with.
That seems more common with euphoric mania. For dysphoric mania, it can be incredibly nasty. My wife said things that I could not believe were coming out of her mouth. Very offensive. In fact, it was one of the reasons why the hospital she was being held at was able to keep her there as they thought she is at risk of "retaliatory violence" if she talks to people like that in public.
 
K

keith74

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The violence worries me. I get very angry, agitated and shouty when manic but I'm never violent and I'm pretty sure violence isn't considered part of dysphoric mania.
Violence is not unusual during a dysphoric manic episode, especially domestic violence. Especially if there is also substance abuse involved.
 
Wishbone

Wishbone

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one of the reasons why the hospital she was being held at was able to keep her there as they thought she is at risk of "retaliatory violence" if she talks to people like that in public.
I'm glad you highlighted this, as this is also true. Whilst we may rage around like angry elephants the filter is still off and you would do or say things you ordinarily wouldn't to anyone, including the kinds that you definitely wouldn't when well. That puts us at great risk for being on the receiving end of the violence even though to a witness they may say we were the ones that initiated it. What you wouldn't be able to get across to anyone, police included - save for a diagnosis - is that it can be a part of the illness, and when it really gets its teeth into you like that, you can't do much about it.
I would also say that dysphoric mania (or mixed episodes as it was/is called) is a cyclone of too much of one thing and too much of another, all getting mixed up and thrown around you're caught in the middle of it all. You never asked for it, and yet here you are anyway being torn to pieces. It is without doubt the worst state I've been in.
But this is where most people will run a mile. The person seems angry, violent, crazy...they don't want any of that, so they leave. If the person also loses a job, a house, friends, family...what are they left with when the smoke clears? Nothing. That leaves you with a whole other battle to fight, often depression, severe depression, and doing it alone, surrounded by ruins and wreckage. What you need is someone to understand the illness and stick by you and help you to make sure you do all you can to prevent further episodes of that nature moving forwards.
I appreciate not many will stick around; I appreciate many will also be encouraged to leave as soon as violence is mentioned, but I would also urge people to think of the person with the illness at the centre of it all that doesn't want any of it either. Help is what we need but it's hardest to come by when you're at war with the world. This is why a dysphoric mania/mixed state is such a big killer: it has everything that is dangerous to the Bipolar patient included.
So @molmillicent if you can, and you care about him, stick with him and help him...BUT make sure he gets the right help quickly and make sure he knows that he needs to stay on his meds as you can't keep going through that kind of thing. This I guess is where an ultimatum comes in: accept help, stay on the meds and try to stay free of dysphoric mania, or lose the relationship.
 
LunaBloodmist

LunaBloodmist

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I'm glad you highlighted this, as this is also true. Whilst we may rage around like angry elephants the filter is still off and you would do or say things you ordinarily wouldn't to anyone, including the kinds that you definitely wouldn't when well. That puts us at great risk for being on the receiving end of the violence even though to a witness they may say we were the ones that initiated it. What you wouldn't be able to get across to anyone, police included - save for a diagnosis - is that it can be a part of the illness, and when it really gets its teeth into you like that, you can't do much about it.
I would also say that dysphoric mania (or mixed episodes as it was/is called) is a cyclone of too much of one thing and too much of another, all getting mixed up and thrown around you're caught in the middle of it all. You never asked for it, and yet here you are anyway being torn to pieces. It is without doubt the worst state I've been in.
But this is where most people will run a mile. The person seems angry, violent, crazy...they don't want any of that, so they leave. If the person also loses a job, a house, friends, family...what are they left with when the smoke clears? Nothing. That leaves you with a whole other battle to fight, often depression, severe depression, and doing it alone, surrounded by ruins and wreckage. What you need is someone to understand the illness and stick by you and help you to make sure you do all you can to prevent further episodes of that nature moving forwards.
I appreciate not many will stick around; I appreciate many will also be encouraged to leave as soon as violence is mentioned, but I would also urge people to think of the person with the illness at the centre of it all that doesn't want any of it either. Help is what we need but it's hardest to come by when you're at war with the world. This is why a dysphoric mania/mixed state is such a big killer: it has everything that is dangerous to the Bipolar patient included.
So @molmillicent if you can, and you care about him, stick with him and help him...BUT make sure he gets the right help quickly and make sure he knows that he needs to stay on his meds as you can't keep going through that kind of thing. This I guess is where an ultimatum comes in: accept help, stay on the meds and try to stay free of dysphoric mania, or lose the relationship.
You explained it perfectly
 
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