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Did U think U were Jesus

benkenobi

benkenobi

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Jul 13, 2008
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12
Interesting that no one has mentioned Lacan here. Also, Twylight, I think you may have misunderstood what is meant by the 'super-ego'. This is not intended to mean solely a well known historical or religious figure. The super-ego is more the collective conscious mind of the culture/species in which are stored all the experiences of each individual subjective mind (if you reject the concept of a single conscious mind experiencing itself subjectively) in the form of various systems of signification (literature, music, painting, mythologies so on) within the context of which systems the Ego is superimposed over the Id; all three of which (super-ego,ego and Id) combine to constitute the self, or "I/me". During an episode of psychosis the (apparently) whole indivdual fractures, and as a response another subjective position can either intrude or be adopted. Continuing with Jung, each symbolic system has archetypal figures/signs; perhaps the recurrence of the Christ identification is a result of his story (from birth through life to death), his identity/subject position, being entirely whole, accessible and enshrined in text; hence why a fractured subjectivity will adopt it to restore some kind of wholeness and agency.

So far as the biomedical model is concerned the treatment given to some of my family members is pretty disturbing. It was more a less a case of identifying the condition by which medication did and did not work. A scattergun approach of throwing a handful of pills down the patients throat and seeing what sticks; scientific perhaps, but by no means pleasant or even dignified.
 
A

Apotheosis

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A scattergun approach of throwing a handful of pills down the patients throat and seeing what sticks; scientific perhaps, but by no means pleasant or even dignified.
It's about as scientific to taking a sledgehammer to a computer; to see if that fixes it.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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Oct 15, 2008
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186
benkenobi: Interesting that no one has mentioned Lacan here...

I don't know anything about him. Would you happen to have some links to a relevant passage of his work?

During an episode of psychosis the (apparently) whole indivdual fractures, and as a response another subjective position can either intrude or be adopted.

I always like to point out to people that I didn't split into personalities, I split into functions: shattered ego, shadow, animus, Self. The Jungian model expresses that experience best (for me) but there are various other models. In this culture and setting one such model is Dabrowski's theory of positive disintegration.

So far as the biomedical model is concerned the treatment given to some of my family members is pretty disturbing. It was more a less a case of identifying the condition by which medication did and did not work. A scattergun approach of throwing a handful of pills down the patients throat and seeing what sticks; scientific perhaps, but by no means pleasant or even dignified.

I've not had medication but I've seen such approaches first hand. It's very disturbing. Equally disturbing is the way the individual in crisis is separated from their family members; frequently, their best source of support. I have run across other treatment approaches where family members are embraced as part of the support team. Jaakko Seikkula's work is probably the best example I could cite at this moment. It's worth noting that like John Weir Perry, Seikkula's Open Dialogue Treatment produced a recovery rate in the range of 85% with approximately two-thirds of those not receiving any form of neuroleptics. I wish there were 10,000 more of him and Perry.


See also: Psychosis: An Introduction to a Jungian Perspective


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D

Danage

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Jul 31, 2008
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Worcestershire, Great Britain
Interesting that no one has mentioned Lacan here. Also, Twylight, I think you may have misunderstood what is meant by the 'super-ego'. This is not intended to mean solely a well known historical or religious figure.
I have to agree, the ego that is created by some psychotic people's minds does not necessarily have to be a real figure. My super-ego that I developed was entirely fictional.

So far as the biomedical model is concerned the treatment given to some of my family members is pretty disturbing. It was more a less a case of identifying the condition by which medication did and did not work. A scattergun approach of throwing a handful of pills down the patients throat and seeing what sticks; scientific perhaps, but by no means pleasant or even dignified.
I have to agree with you here. Science does not have all the right answers though.
 
benkenobi

benkenobi

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Jul 13, 2008
Messages
12
I don't have any links immediatley at hand but I'll have a little rake around, see what I can dig up. Lacan is a quantum leap forward though. He combines much of Freuds work with Ferdinand de Saussure's work on linguistics; the basics are that all thought is based upon words and images/symbols. The meaning of any given word is not something essential to that word but based upon its difference in relation to other words. In other words there is nothing 'dog' like about the word 'dog', we only know what the word dog means because it does not mean cat, cow, bird etc. Another example: I know I am a male because I am not a female. I know what female means because I know it does not mean male and so on. It is certainly more complex than this, (I think) when Lacan gave his first lecture on these ideas he was hailed as revolutionising the field.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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benkenobi: The meaning of any given word is not something essential to that word but based upon its difference in relation to other words.

I'm not entirely certain but the focus on linguistics sounds similar to Seikkula's approach...

Vygotsky (1970) demonstrated that human language originates in social relations and that, during the first months of life, the mother (or nearest caretaker) constructs the reality in which the meaning of things around the child takes shape (Leiman, 1995). The child is born into the language context that her parents have created according to their own voices. In the phase of egocentric speech, from ages 3 to 7 years, the child starts to incorporate the behavior-guiding task of language into her own psychological functions. After saying a word aloud, the child can act according to what she said. Speaking aloud before acting becomes unnecessary in the phase of inner speech, and an adult can guide her own behavior by means of inner thoughts. The individual can internalize words and concepts, but the more important aspect of language remains the actual situations in which the sense of the words is created in each conversation. Of course one part of this conversation is the inner dialogue, in which different voices seek out several perspectives and meanings.

In contrast to the Cartesian view, here the function of language is not primarily seen as reflecting and conveying feelings, thoughts, acts or experiences of the inner reality. Instead, language is more like an environment in which we all locate ourselves according to our phase of life, our experiences, our occupation, and our therapeutic approach (Shotter, 1999). We not only use language, we also live in it.

That's from the article I linked to in my response above. Anyway, yes, if you can find some related material from Lacan, please do share.

~ Namaste


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spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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I'll have to return to hang out with Lacan later. For now this fits with the overall theme too well to not share...

~*~

I used to rule the world
Seas would rise when I gave the word
Now in the morning I sleep alone
Sweep the streets I used to own

I used to roll the dice
Feel the fear in my enemies eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:
"Now the old king is dead! Long live the king!"

One minute I held the key
Next the walls were closed on me
And I discovered that my castles stand
Upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand

I hear Jerusalem bells are ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
Be my mirror, my sword and shield
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
Once you go there was never,
Never an honest word
And that was when I ruled the world

It was the wicked and wild wind
Blew down the doors to let me in.
Shattered windows and the sound of drums
People couldn't believe what I'd become

Revolutionaries wait
For my head on a silver plate
Just a puppet on a lonely string
Oh, who would ever want to be king?

I hear Jerusalem bells are ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
Be my mirror, my sword and shield
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
I know Saint Peter won't call my name
Never an honest word
But that was when I ruled the world

Coldplay - Viva La Vida (When I Ruled the World)


Music of the Hour: Coldplay: Viva La Vida



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Rambuie Perspecador

Rambuie Perspecador

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Dec 21, 2007
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338
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Nottingham
I don't think this would be anything like so prevalent if you and I were not so thoroughly dis-orientated by being hospitalised. When something bewildering happens we struggle to account for it - and thinking we are someone we are not is one way of holding on to some sort of explanation for the bizarre feelings that result. I thought I was Lord of the Manor. Couldn't grasp how it was I was being waited upon hand and foot without having to lift a finger (initially). Anyway, it takes all sorts, and Jesus personifies the human condition in so many ways it is not so uncanny as all that. :unsure::unsure:
 
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