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Did U think U were Jesus

T

Twylight

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Quire often in Psychosis people can believe they are other people

Sigmund Freud, physician and phsyco-analyst had a theory called 'the Super Ego ',

When in psychosis experiencing terrifying audio and visual hallucinations - the mind will adopt ' a Super Ego' in an attempt to win.

a popular ' super ego ' with older people was Napoleon Boneparte probably 'cos he was the most successful military leader in history

But people can believe they are Jesus or even God - if this occurs people can also believe that they no longer need to eat.

When put on anti-psychotic medication these ' beliefs ' will slowly fade.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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Twylight: Sigmund Freud, physician and phsyco-analyst had a theory called 'the Super Ego '...

Freudian theory? Well, thank goodness I didn't believe I was Jesus' penis -- that would have been really weird.

I have a whole different take on the Jesus thing. First of all, I've noticed that people in fragmented states have a tendency to communicate metaphorically. If we were to examine what Jesus symbolizes on a metaphorical level we might say that the symbol of Jesus represents states of consciousness such as salvation, redemption, compassion, intense suffering, universal love, etc. It's been my experience that when people express a self-identification with Jesus (the symbol can change according to culture or religious/spiritual beliefs) what they are doing is sharing some important information in regard to their state of mind in that moment, i.e., they are experiencing a sense of being redeemed, or intense suffering or a feeling of universal love, etc.

Jung -- who split with Freud because he just couldn't buy the "everything is about sex" theory -- believed that the symbol of Jesus Christ was a symbol of the Center. This stage of the psyche is the equivalent of the "God Image".


Archetypes
Archetypes are essentially quasi autonomous functions which give rise to specific motifs, as common in all mythology as in any individual's life. They are often discussed in terms of personifications which appear in dreams, but they can also be seen in themes of stories, mythological or lived. They are very potent as patterns of action. Another reason I prefer to consider them functionally is that they perform discrete functions as will be seen below. They are more than just different flavours of the same thing.

Another advantage of starting with a rather broader definition to avoid a common confusion of archetype with personified image. While the Self may give rise to an image of Jesus Christ for example, it is also the archetype behind the most abstract of mandalas. I also wished to start this way because it's especially difficult in the case of the Anima/Animus who seem to be especially prone to personification, given the emphasis on gender.

Source: The Process of Individuation

It's been my experience that when Jesus, Buddha, Krishna etc. appear in someone's experience it's nearly always a harbinger of something positive. I grant that many people interpret such things literally rather than metaphorically, and this can result in continued self-identification with the archetypal symbols. I've known of at least one individual who continued to believe he was Jesus Christ well after his experience had come to a conclusion. I always suspected it was to compensate for the trauma and insult of his treatment.

I'm reminded in this moment of a story a very good friend told me in the aftermath of my own experience. The story goes like this...


Spiritual teacher Ram Dass went to visit his brother who was being kept in a "mental hospital". When he arrived, Ram greeted his brother who was dressed in a three piece suit. This was in sharp contract to Ram Dass' own outfit of long hair and beard, a flowing gown, and sandals.

His brother asked him, "Why is it that you can walk around in long robes and sandals thinking you're Jesus and you're free, but I dress like this and think I'm Jesus and I'm the one whose locked up?!"

Ram Dass looked at his brother and replied, "The problem is, you think you're the only one."


Music of the Hour: Could I Be Your Girl?


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spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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For those who may wish to explore the Jungian aspects further...

Christ, a Symbol of the Self

Carl Jung’s ideas and writings about God, religion, Christ, Christianity, and the Christian Church are some of his most challenging, controversial, and fruitful. His approach was to take ancient “thought forms that have become historically fixed, try to melt them down again and pour them into moulds of immediate experience.” Jung’s own experience of the numinosum (holy) was a lifelong passion and most of his major written works in the last third of his life were devoted to some aspect of religious experience and religious symbols, with particular attention to the symbols of the Christian myth.

In Aion Jung addresses Christianity’s central figure, Christ, and unpacks the meaning of Christ as a symbol of the Self. At the request of many of his readers who asked for a more comprehensive treatment of the Christ/Self relationship, and apparently inspired by a dream during a temporary illness, Jung worked on the project for several years, completing it in 1951. Aion remains a “sacred text” for many of us who are intrigued by the convergence of religion and analytical psychology.

One of the most significant insights of the project, which will be the main thrust of this brief article, is the differentiation between Jesus, the historical figure from Nazareth, and the archetypal Christ, the Redeemer. This distinction between the historical and the symbolical is essential if the Christian symbols are to retain their power to touch the inner depths of the modern person. As we know, Jung’s diagnosis of modern men and women was a spiritual malnutrition bought on by a starvation of symbols. He called for a recovery of the symbolic life which had been abandoned to a one-sided literal, rational approach to religious matters.

The Jewish rabbi and reformer, Jesus, lived a personal, concrete, historical life. However, it was the archetypal image of a Redeemer slumbering, so to speak, in the collective unconscious, which became attached to that unique life. This powerful collective image made itself visible, so to speak, in the man Jesus, so that seeing him people glimpsed the greater personality which seeks conscious realization in each person. Jung notes that it was not the man Jesus who created the myth of the “god-man.” Other Redeemer myths existed many centuries before his birth. Jesus himself was seized by this symbolic idea, which, as St. Mark tells us, lifted him out of the narrow life of the Nazarene carpenter.

Briefly stated, at an early stage Jesus became the collective figure whom the unconscious of his contemporaries expected to appear and Jesus took on those projections. In this way, Jesus’ life exemplifies the archetype of the Christ, or in Jung’s psychological language, the Self, which is a more inclusive word for the inner image of god, the imago Dei, which resides in every person.

Writing from a psychological perspective, Jung was interested in the archetypes of the collective unconscious which were constellated by the presence of the historical person, Jesus. He examined the Christ-symbolism contained in the New Testament, along with patristic allegories and medieval iconography, and compared those with the archetypal contents of the unconscious psyche which he had observed and experienced. He noted that the most important symbolical statements about Christ in the New Testament revealed attributes of the archetypal hero: improbable origin, divine father, hazardous birth, precocious development, conquest of the mother and of death, miraculous deeds, early death, etc.

Jung concludes that the archetypal symbolizations of the Christ-figure are similar to the Self which is present in each person as an unconscious image. It was the archetype of the Self in the psyche/soul which responded to the Christian message, with the result that the concrete Rabbi Jesus was rapidly assimilated by the constellated archetype. In this way, Jesus realized the idea of the Self. Most importantly for this article, Jung notes that the experience of the Self and what the New Testament describes as the “Christ within” are synonymous. As an empiricist, Jung was not interested in how the two entities may be different along rational theological lines...

There are multiple implications of preserving the distinction between the historical Jesus and the archetypal/symbolic Christ, both for individuals and religious institutions and groups. For the individual, the archetypal Christ is not limited to one man, Jesus, but can be seen as the potential “greater personality” in every individual. Understood psychologically, the life of Christ represents the various phases and expressions of the Self as it undergoes incarnation in an individual ego, that is, the various stages of the process of individuation.


Read the rest of the article here: Christ, A Symbol of the Self


See also:
- Schizophrenia & The Hero's Journey
- The Archetype of the Apocalypse
- The Inner Apocalypse




.​
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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Messages
186

~*~


[Image Source]

~*~

A Story That Could Be True

If you were exchanged in the cradle and
your real mother died
without ever telling the story
then no one knows your name,
and somewhere in the world
your father is lost and needs you
but you are far away.

He can never find
how true you are, how ready.
When the great wind comes
and the robberies of the rain
you stand on the corner shivering.
The people who go by--
you wonder at their calm.

They miss the whisper that runs
any day in your mind,
"Who are you really, wanderer?"
and the answer you have to give
no matter how dark and cold
the world around you is:
"Maybe I'm a king."


William Stafford: Poems for Each Other


More from the Jungians on the archetype of inner Kingship...

An Interview with John Weir Perry [Excerpt]

JOHN WEIR PERRY:
... what's particularly interesting about this collective, cultural dimension of the visionary experience, is that the historical evolution of culture recapitulates the same process that happens within the individual. It begins in fear of death, lust for power and supremacy, but soon leads over into this concern with relationship and Eros, intimacy, caring. In history, the myth original that parallels this process is one that was first conceived during the urban revolution: that's about 3000 BCE in Egypt and Mesopotamia, 2000 BCE in China, and about 1000 BCE in Israel. With this first growth of cities, a vast psychological transformation took place in society, and new myths emerged which served a guiding function for the motivations within. Now these first urban societies were preoccupied with power. Power and dominance were held in high esteem and sacralised. Some centuries went by, and you had prophetic movements, philosophical movements that arose in opposition to that.

These later myths redefined the cohesive power in society. They asserted that the thing that binds the people together into a working whole is not power and dominance but caring, brotherhood, and love. If you check out the ancient literature, you will find that this idea of the overarching importance of love or compassion is simply not mentioned in any urban texts up to a certain point.... The function of social leadership was first projected exclusively onto the persona of the Pharaoh or King. All the people had to do was to follow orders and do what they were told. The mythologies of the early urban phase were all in the power idiom at first: the King is the embodiment of the whole people. Only he can care for them. He is the one who is compassionate. He is the one who is loving, as a father is toward his children.

So what took place over the following centuries was a complete transformation of that type of myth. The first time in recorded literature that there is any mention of the Kingship belonging not only to the elected king, but also to the people, was around the middle of the 1st millennium BCE, in China. They affirmed that every individual has within himself the potentiality to be sage-king or sacral king. It was specifically expressed in these terms: "Every man shall become a sage-king!"

MICHAEL O'CALLAGHAN: Very interesting! Who said it?

JOHN WEIR PERRY: Interestingly enough, it was Confucius who expressed it first - you wouldn't expect it really! He was a great promoter of the idea of the inner kingship, democracy, self-rule, and social caring. He had the Golden Rule - the idea of returning good for evil and responding to violence with non-violence - quite clearly expressed long before Christianity. The same thing happened in India, with the Buddha. In Israel, it didn't arrive until much later on. The Old Testament prophets, projecting their image of God as the vengeful Yahveh, did not talk of this kind of brotherhood or compassion; you don't find that really until the Christian era. The point is that the central importance of love and social caring was just not mentioned in any of these cultures before their initial perception - in visionary states - by sensitive individuals.

Source: When the Dream Becomes Real: An Interview With John Weir Perry


See also: The Far Side of Madness


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D

Danage

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Quire often in Psychosis people can believe they are other people

Sigmund Freud, physician and phsyco-analyst had a theory called 'the Super Ego ',
I read about Freud for an A Level in Philosophy and Ethics - some of his beliefs were very strange.

When in psychosis experiencing terrifying audio and visual hallucinations - the mind will adopt ' a Super Ego' in an attempt to win.

a popular ' super ego ' with older people was Napoleon Boneparte probably 'cos he was the most successful military leader in history
I thought I was someone else, an Emperor of a vast empire that has never existed, something of my imagination, based on a story I wrote in my head. As to whether Bonaparte was the most successful military leader in history is open to discussion. I view Hannibal Barca, followed by Alexander the Great, as being the greatest military leader.

But people can believe they are Jesus or even God - if this occurs people can also believe that they no longer need to eat.
I once believed I was a prophet during my second psychotic episode because my psychosis told me I was. I have since rejected this belief.

When put on anti-psychotic medication these ' beliefs ' will slowly fade.
Yes, they do, which of course is a good thing.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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Twylight: When put on anti-psychotic medication these ' beliefs ' will slowly fade.

Danage: Yes, they do, which of course is a good thing.

I've noticed that when it comes to moving on after psychosis, there seems to be two kinds of people. One kind doesn't have any sort of need to sort through the experience or attempt to understand it. What they most want is to simply put it behind them and get on with their lives. That's the route that brings them the most satisfaction.

A second kind of people have a need to understand, examine, assimilate, digest, explore in order to feel satisfied. Clearly, I fall in that camp. Setting that experience aside was simply not an option for me. Years later, I still feel more comfortable knowing that I understand why things happened the way they did.

As always, from a personal perspective there are never going to be absolute routes that everyone should take. Each individual needs to determine what is best for them.

~ Namaste


.​
 
T

Twylight

Guest
Yes, I couldn't just move on and get on with life

I've been in psychosis over 20 times

But the result is . I have no fear of psychosis - I just wish they could improve on the medication
 
D

Danage

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spiritual_emergency: I fall into the mindset of those wishing to know why it all happened, if that is to what you were referring in your second kind.

Twilight: I have to agree that the medicine should be better, with less severe, and less, side-effects.
 
S

schizolanza

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I didn't think I was God.More that I thought everyone was God.I thought that the other patients were my neighbours from my street,and they were punnishing me.
I find it hard to remember exactly what my psychosis was like.But I do remember searching through my minds experience trying to explain what was happening to me.
I suppose I'm on this forum as part of that search for meaning and understanding,but I have to admit,I wish I could put it all behind me and move on.Schizophrenia sucks.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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Danage: I fall into the mindset of those wishing to know why it all happened, if that is to what you were referring in your second kind.

Thanks for letting me know Danage. The Jungian approach is very different from that of mainstream psychiatry. Some people find it to be deeply threatening for that reason -- particularly those who subscribe religiously to the biomedical model where an open discussion of one's "hallucinations and delusions" is actively discouraged. I'm fresh from an environment where another individual was giving me a difficult time for sharing my perspectives and I'm probably a little sensitive as a result. People who feel a need to control and punish others for not complying with their mindset make me feel distinctly uncomfortable and I feel much better since I walked away from the pleasure of that individual's company.

Meanwhile, you and I seem to share the following common ground...

I thought I was someone else, an Emperor of a vast empire that has never existed, something of my imagination, based on a story I wrote in my head.

I also "wrote a story". I've been talking about that a bit in the Journals section of the site if you're interested. Again, I have no idea if anything I say there might be useful to you or others but it's there if you do and if you don't, you're free to leave it be.


~ Namaste


.​
 
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Danage

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Thanks for letting me know Danage. The Jungian approach is very different from that of mainstream psychiatry. Some people find it to be deeply threatening for that reason -- particularly those who subscribe religiously to the biomedical model where an open discussion of one's "hallucinations and delusions" is actively discouraged.
I don't quite understand why not talking about them helps, so I have to agree.

I'm fresh from an environment where another individual was giving me a difficult time for sharing my perspectives and I'm probably a little sensitive as a result. People who feel a need to control and punish others for not complying with their mindset make me feel distinctly uncomfortable and I feel much better since I walked away from the pleasure of that individual's company.
It's good that you walked away, for I could ever keep hallucinations bottled up anymore.

Meanwhile, you and I seem to share the following common ground...



I also "wrote a story". I've been talking about that a bit in the Journals section of the site if you're interested. Again, I have no idea if anything I say there might be useful to you or others but it's there if you do and if you don't, you're free to leave it be.


~ Namaste


.​
Interesting. I see that I'm not the only one to have written a story in my head, and then for it to come vividly to life several years into writing it. I have since started typing up all that I have in my head regarding my story, both from what I came up with, and what my hallucinations described.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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Danage: I don't quite understand why not talking about them helps, so I have to agree.

I believe the underlying concerns are that a.) they'd be "feeding into your delusions" if they did, and b.) "it doesn't make sense anyway". I'm inclined to think those who would say such things simply don't speak the language.

Danage: It's good that you walked away, for I could ever keep hallucinations bottled up anymore.

Yes, it was better for me to walk away. There's no reason why anyone should have to stay in an abusive situation when they're free to go.

Danage: Interesting. I see that I'm not the only one to have written a story in my head, and then for it to come vividly to life several years into writing it. I have since started typing up all that I have in my head regarding my story, both from what I came up with, and what my hallucinations described.

Jung concluded that every person has a story.
When derangement occurs, it is because the
personal story has been denied or rejected.

Healing and integration comes when the person discovers or
rediscovers his or her own personal story.

I found the work of the Jungians to be exceptionally helpful to me. It's possible, you may find the same. This link may also be of assistance: Phase 1: Telling the Story of the Experience

~ Namaste


Music of the Hour: Blue Rodeo: Underground


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Last edited:
D

Danage

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Danage: It's good that you walked away, for I could ever keep hallucinations bottled up anymore.

Yes, it was better for me to walk away. There's no reason why anyone should have to stay in an abusive situation when they're free to go.
I couldn't agree more.

Danage: Interesting. I see that I'm not the only one to have written a story in my head, and then for it to come vividly to life several years into writing it. I have since started typing up all that I have in my head regarding my story, both from what I came up with, and what my hallucinations described.

Jung concluded that every person has a story.
When derangement occurs, it is because the
personal story has been denied or rejected.

Healing and integration comes when the person discovers or
rediscovers his or her own personal story.

I found the work of the Jungians to be exceptionally helpful to me. It's possible, you may find the same. This link may also be of assistance: Phase 1: Telling the Story of the Experience

~ Namaste


Music of the Hour: Blue Rodeo: Underground


.​
Thanks for the link. I can see what you mean about everyone having their own story, for everyone does, either in life or in the unlimited realms of the imagination.
 
spiritual_emergency

spiritual_emergency

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Messages
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Olanza: I didn't think I was God.More that I thought everyone was God.

At least you were generous. I always say, there's nothing terribly grandiose about thinking you alone are divine, but thinking everyone is -- now that's thinking BIG!

I thought that the other patients were my neighbours from my street,and they were punnishing me.

That's a difficult one to work with but sometimes, we can find patterns of repetitive behavior. A timeline is a very simple tool that can help illustrate these patterns. Simply mark out a line and place a dot on it to represent your birth. Then, place another one to indicate where you are now. Then, begin filling in the blanks with the high points; be alert to those events that replicate others in some significant manner. This can let us know where we need to focus some attention in regard to our own healing.

I find it hard to remember exactly what my psychosis was like.But I do remember searching through my minds experience trying to explain what was happening to me.

I did my best to write my experience down as it was happening yet I know there was a great deal I couldn't capture, particularly the aspects of communication that were wordless. Years later, I still have the "story" of the experience but some of the memories have passed from my grasp too.

I suppose I'm on this forum as part of that search for meaning and understanding,but I have to admit,I wish I could put it all behind me and move on.Schizophrenia sucks.

I agree. It does. But I know I also had to be able to say to myself that there were much worse things. That's not to minimize how difficult it can be or to imply we should feel badly if we have moments of self-compassion. For me, what it did was help shift me out of that sense of "this is the worst thing ever" because if that's what I believed, how could I possibly recover from the worst thing ever? I do still feel that schizophrenia sucks for a lot of reasons, but I no longer believe it's the worst thing I could go through.


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T

Twylight

Guest
Psychiatrists do tend to want us to forget all about it and move on

But I found this impossible

Are they so arrogant that they beleive we wouldn't understand what happens

Who are the experts on medication ? - We are.
 
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