Depression as logical outcome

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Thiswaythatway

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Hi all,

Forgive me but just going to write some stuff and see what happens.

I dont have depression, i have a mediocre, pointless existence. I am at the extreme bottom of the human hierachy. I cannot point to a single person and say "at least i am better off than them".

The envy i feel towards every single person i know is natural and correct. There is no imbalance i can point to or hope for. I am weak, a failure and thus by evolutionary logic MUST feel the way i do and it is right and proper i do.

If i am not succeeding, flourishing, a creative, earning enough money to put down roots, attractive, of any value then a feeling of self esteem would have to be built on a lie. A loser cannot have self esteem without telling oneself a huge lie.

Sorry, a short version would be- i am a genuine waste of space and recognise myself as being so. No chemical imbalance, just plain old logic and observation. Is there a name or label for this? Like hyper self understanding, or anti self deception syndrome?

Cheers all.
 
Someoldguy

Someoldguy

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First of all, you are being disingenuous. From reading what you have written above, you are far from what you self describe as.

Do you wish to continue with your pretense, or would you like to talk about what is really bothering you?
 
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dewey

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No because society puts value on a human based on them being those things - e.g. "successful".

The problem is the relationship you have with yourself. You define yourself based on various criteria, and then you feel you do not "measure up".

You need to develop a sense of what is important to YOU and also ignore everything else.
 
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Thiswaythatway

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I apologise if i have annoyed you in any way but i stand by my self assessment. I have no wish to waste your time.
There is little i can do to convince you of my sincerity, and (no reflection on you as i dont pretend to know you in less than 100 words) i don't care to.
 
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dewey

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I noticed this a lot - in reality, nothing really matters.

The most valuable thing in life is to be stable, healthy, and not feel alone. Do what is important for you, not what society wants of you. Those are the most valuable things.

Everything else is valueless.
 
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dewey

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I apologise if i have annoyed you in any way but i stand by my self assessment. I have no wish to waste your time.
There is little i can do to convince you of my sincerity, and (no reflection on you as i dont pretend to know you in less than 100 words) i don't care to.
What are you measuring yourself against?
What represents: "succeeding, flourishing, a creative, earning enough money to put down roots, attractive" to you?
 
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Thiswaythatway

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Thank you Dewey. I am a big believer in society and believe it to be the ultimate arbiter of value. The success criteria i state are very real and i do judge myself and feel judged by them. Being me doesn't seem to cut the mustard.
 
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Thiswaythatway

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The problem is the relationship you have with yourself. You define yourself based on various criteria, and then you feel you do not "measure up".

Sorry Dewey ive gotten a little out of sync. I think my understanding of flourishing is pretty standard, earning enough for stability, owning ones own home, making some sort of difference beyond ones own interest. I dont meet any societal criterion for success and thus am a failure. The resultant feelings i have are right and proper.
 
Someoldguy

Someoldguy

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You can express yourself articulately with ease, yet you self-describe as unable to point to a single person and say 'at least I'm better off than them'?
You realize there are illiterate people world wide? You've access to a computer and knowledge to use it. Yet you self-describe as 'the extreme bottom of the human heirachy'?

Perhaps you do not intend to, but you are being disingenuous.
Your self-esteem issue comes from somewhere, and that is what I was trying to get you to discuss. Sorry, apparently I did a poor job of communicating there.
 
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dewey

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Sorry Dewey ive gotten a little out of sync. I think my understanding of flourishing is pretty standard, earning enough for stability, owning ones own home, making some sort of difference beyond ones own interest. I dont meet any societal criterion for success and thus am a failure. The resultant feelings i have are right and proper.
So, how do you move towards that. You have outlined what you want:
  1. To earn enough
  2. To make a difference beyond yourself.

    Those are good starting points. How do you begin to achieve this? What plan do you put into place?

    You need to think of a practical way you can move forward and become like you want to be. Otherwise you will be stuck in the cycle of 'I have achieved nothing and hate myself' which only takes you to 'I have still achieved nothing and hate myself'.

    It is more practical to think of what you would like to be like, and then work towards that.
 
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dewey

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You can express yourself articulately with ease, yet you self-describe as unable to point to a single person and say 'at least I'm better off than them'?
You realize there are illiterate people world wide? You've access to a computer and knowledge to use it. Yet you self-describe as 'the extreme bottom of the human heirachy'?
And even then, are those illiterate people at the bottom of the human hierarchy?

The reality is there is no such thing as the hierachy.
We are all fallible, we are all human, we are all going to die.
Death is as they say the great equaliser. We are all equals.

If however someone wants to be in a better position, they need to clearly demand of themselves how they can achieve that. It is important to observe oneself and make sure they are constantly on the road to improving themself. However this demands asking oneself some difficult questions, so most people don't want to do this
 
Someoldguy

Someoldguy

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Dewey gives good advice. The only thing I would add is, break your goals down into small, manageable parts. If your success is limited due to your income level, then you need to make yourself more valuable. Which means gaining experience or improving your level of education. Only you know your situation well enough to determine which would best serve you, so you have a decision to make. Then it's a matter of making progress toward achieving that step.

No one got where they are by happenstance, though some had a much longer and steeper path than others.
 
Someoldguy

Someoldguy

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And even then, are those illiterate people at the bottom of the human hierarchy?

The reality is there is no such thing as the hierachy.
We are all fallible, we are all human, we are all going to die.
Death is as they say the great equaliser. We are all equals.

If however someone wants to be in a better position, they need to clearly demand of themselves how they can achieve that. It is important to observe oneself and make sure they are constantly on the road to improving themself. However this demands asking oneself some difficult questions, so most people don't want to do this
I mostly agree. I think people often get overwhelmed by trying to think of the ultimate goal rather than concentrating on what needs to be done this month, this week, this day, right now.

How do you move a mountain? One shovel full at a time.
 
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Thiswaythatway

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You can express yourself articulately with ease, yet you self-describe as unable to point to a single person and say 'at least I'm better off than them'?
You realize there are illiterate people world wide? You've access to a computer and knowledge to use it. Yet you self-describe as 'the extreme bottom of the human heirachy'?

Perhaps you do not intend to, but you are being disingenuous.
Your self-esteem issue comes from somewhere, and that is what I was trying to get you to discuss. Sorry, apparently I did a poor job of communicating there.
My self esteem issue is one born of not being as good as other people and not being able to spin a nice story to make myself feel better and just have people "love me, just for being me".
I appreciate your clarification and all i can say is reading, writing and basic articulation are no big achievement in the west. Harsh but true. Computer skills are ten a penny and almost meaningless unless you can code or whatever that means.
 
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dewey

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I mostly agree. I think people often get overwhelmed by trying to think of the ultimate goal rather than concentrating on what needs to be done this month, this week, this day, right now.
I just realise how miserable I made myself through making myself feel as though I need to measure up to other people's expectations... but at the expense of my own misery.

Then I realise other people's expectations are usually bullshit. What really matters to me? That is the question
 
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