scottsblue
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Founding Member
my carers are like ew you go all the way to france on ur own, gettin busses an dif types of transport.
i go becuase i just carnt take anymore of the terribal life i`ve got,
i feel a bit better in somways since i got my own place but i`ve totally secluded myself, every bit of news i see its like thats gona happen to me and another good reason not go out the house.
i`m livin a nightmare most days to tell u the truth, with fear of leaving the house, never been exepted by people and never think i will be exepted and stalkers.
if i had peace an quiet i`d bury myself out of existence, i got no erges for women i carnt see and no passion or will to push myself into a long term relationship or any kind of relationship but that doasnt matter cos i dont go to pubs anymore.
coffee an a smoke in the mornin, tlkin on here when people are tlkin, poker on facebook an parcels in the post is the best i got right now.
i go becuase i just carnt take anymore of the terribal life i`ve got,
i feel a bit better in somways since i got my own place but i`ve totally secluded myself, every bit of news i see its like thats gona happen to me and another good reason not go out the house.
i`m livin a nightmare most days to tell u the truth, with fear of leaving the house, never been exepted by people and never think i will be exepted and stalkers.
if i had peace an quiet i`d bury myself out of existence, i got no erges for women i carnt see and no passion or will to push myself into a long term relationship or any kind of relationship but that doasnt matter cos i dont go to pubs anymore.
coffee an a smoke in the mornin, tlkin on here when people are tlkin, poker on facebook an parcels in the post is the best i got right now.
Fedup
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Have you had this a long time ? Or has it just occured ?
scottsblue
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my lifes always changein fedup, i just feel so drained all the time right now, before i was really really deppressed all the time, thats why i nearlly ended up homeless cos i wasnt goin to work feelin like i was.
Fedup
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You are sounding really low today imo SB 
Feeling drained .......... i know that one too well . Dr took blood today to check a few thing's out.
Feeling drained .......... i know that one too well . Dr took blood today to check a few thing's out.
Fedup
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How are you today SB ?
Fedup
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Glad you are ok
cloudberry
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Co-dependancy? Long!
Hi,
if its co-dependancy you have, then I certainly have it.
There are some good books about it, reading them has helped me understand the cycle of co-dependancy better and avoid some of the pitfalls.
Basically its a triangle and at each point is the following:
victim
persecuter
rescuer
The theory is that a co-dependant person moves constantly around the triangle, they are trapped into one of the three roles.
Victim role is feeling no-one likes you, or suffering from other peoples opinions and is a "poor old me" role.
Persecuter is about blaming others and is typified by "well if they hadnt done so-and-so I wouldnt be in this mess".
Rescuer is "help me", or even more wierd it can result in us constantly rescuing OTHERS, picking up lame ducks and having people be dependant on us. We do this because it validates us. We then feel needed, which satifies our neediness conversely. Also when someone is dependent on us we know they will not or cannot leave us - we often have a deep fear of being abandoned.
The whole cycle is miserable. Before I was aware of it if I couldnt find someone to play the game with me (be my rescuer if I am being victim, or be my persecuter - someone I can blame, or be a victim companion as in "oh yes, they are awful, no wonder you feel so bad, they did terrible things to you") I would play the game with myself. I still do.
Once I became aware of it (I read a book called Love the Miracle You Are by Roger King) I can now choose not to buy into the cycle.
The big one for me was to stop rescuing other people. I used to do an excellent line in rescuing. Even had one guy - Adrian -practically live (doss) in my house for a year. This provided me with companionship and victim validation as he Never Disagreed with Me.
However if I wanted him to go back to his own flat I then felt guilty because his flat was a mess and he didnt have any cooking facilities etc. But THAT WAS NOT MY FAULT so why should I feel guilty? Guilt is letting a co victim make you feel like a perpetrater!
Co-dependants find other co-dependants excellent company. Because we dont challenge each other on the game. A fellow co-dependant will move around the traingle with you or play the opposite role as required.
This kind of thinking feeling pattern creates fear, and the need for constant reassurance that they are loved. But no matter how much they are told they are loved, they dont believe they are loveable.
Now I challenge myself. Its like resisting a tide of neediness, but I can do it. I am doing it right now.
I dont cut off altogether, like when he was down the other day I invited him to join me to eat, I had roasted a chicken, he had very little food in, I put a funny film on and we had a laugh. Then he went home.
I got to know a guy a few months ago who was in prison. I really like him, but looking back its because he is co-dependent. They can and usually are very ENGAGING people, fascinating in their neediness, can make them appear very charismatic.
My inner co-dependent zooms in on this trait - aha! someone to play out this endless game with - brilliant!!!
Took me a while to spot it, that I was at it again. But I did, and now I am withdrawing my investment. He is not. He has started whinging, literally at times. He hasnt got a cooker, he hasnt got a job or any prospects of one, he cant afford heating, his underwear is falling apart, he wishes he was back in prison etc etc etc. He was of course falsely accused, is innocent, and is a VICTIM of injustice!!!
My instinct is to RESCUE him, and quickly! I have a lovely home, with heating and a cooker, I have some M&S gift vouchers - we could get him some new underwear, I cant change the job situation, but I have some private income which helps, it would be cheaper to live together than apart, I wouldnt be so lonely and isolated, blah blah blah.
STOP! HALT! I say to myself, stop right there.
What would happen if I went ahead with the plan?
Sure as eggs are eggs we would end up living here in splendid co-dependent isolation together "us against the world" - the world being the persecuter of course. My agoraphobia would come back with a vengeance because he would encourage it, he would go out to the shops, let the little woman stay at home, protected by him. Isolated by him. Dependent on him to deal with the big bad world.
He would be dependent on me for a roof over his head and all the trappings of a well established home.
Happy as pigs in muck? I DONT THINK SO!!!
The big clue is - they very rarely disagree with you, they are such agreeable people. I am, I am very agreeable. We want so much to be loved and approved of, so we are Yes People, and People Pleasers even to our own detriment.
The other clue is, once you realise you are getting sucked into another co-dependent relationship, and you start to withdraw or backtrack - they start to raise the stakes (of neediness or even emotional blackmail). There may be no end to how far they will go, or if you are not aware and you are doing this to another - how far you/I will go to cling to them. See end of message for an extreme example ***
This is not a recipe for true happiness. Breaking the cycle and being strong is the way to grow.
Another good book is The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie. Also Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood.
I hope this rather long message has helped, if indeed this is what you are suffering with. It can be managed! Wholeness is perfection and its probably unachievable. But breaking unhealthy patterns which hinder our growth isnt impossible.
with love and light,
cloudberry
*** true example of extreme behaviour
The lame duck - Adrian who practically lived with me for a year wanted me to pander to him more and more one day and I was drained and fed up with it. He was acting increasingly like a whinging toddler, but he was 54 years old. I had work to do. Everytime he tried to hook into me I side-stepped the game, nicely but firmly.
Bear in mind this is before I read the book and was aware of what the cycle was and how damaging it is.
I disengaged and went into my office to do some work.
Fifteen minutes later he came shuffling into my office with a look of utter despair on his face and said "Samantha, I've messed myself and I didnt even know I had done it" sob sob.
I was horrified. Did he expect me to change his nappy now?
I simply said "well you had better go and clean yourself up then".
He ended up in a hostel, and got kicked out of there for attacking a female member of staff.
I had a lucky escape.
Last I heard he was on the streets. He tried to guilt trip me into taking him in "you wouldnt see me on the streets would you???"
And it was very hard, but I said "actually Adrian, yes, I would"
I dont know where he is now. But I dont have a thieving (he stole £100 from a friend of mine while he was dossing here), lying, ultra manipulative dependant living in my home.
And I am stronger and all the better for it!!!!
Hi,
if its co-dependancy you have, then I certainly have it.
There are some good books about it, reading them has helped me understand the cycle of co-dependancy better and avoid some of the pitfalls.
Basically its a triangle and at each point is the following:
victim
persecuter
rescuer
The theory is that a co-dependant person moves constantly around the triangle, they are trapped into one of the three roles.
Victim role is feeling no-one likes you, or suffering from other peoples opinions and is a "poor old me" role.
Persecuter is about blaming others and is typified by "well if they hadnt done so-and-so I wouldnt be in this mess".
Rescuer is "help me", or even more wierd it can result in us constantly rescuing OTHERS, picking up lame ducks and having people be dependant on us. We do this because it validates us. We then feel needed, which satifies our neediness conversely. Also when someone is dependent on us we know they will not or cannot leave us - we often have a deep fear of being abandoned.
The whole cycle is miserable. Before I was aware of it if I couldnt find someone to play the game with me (be my rescuer if I am being victim, or be my persecuter - someone I can blame, or be a victim companion as in "oh yes, they are awful, no wonder you feel so bad, they did terrible things to you") I would play the game with myself. I still do.
Once I became aware of it (I read a book called Love the Miracle You Are by Roger King) I can now choose not to buy into the cycle.
The big one for me was to stop rescuing other people. I used to do an excellent line in rescuing. Even had one guy - Adrian -practically live (doss) in my house for a year. This provided me with companionship and victim validation as he Never Disagreed with Me.
However if I wanted him to go back to his own flat I then felt guilty because his flat was a mess and he didnt have any cooking facilities etc. But THAT WAS NOT MY FAULT so why should I feel guilty? Guilt is letting a co victim make you feel like a perpetrater!
Co-dependants find other co-dependants excellent company. Because we dont challenge each other on the game. A fellow co-dependant will move around the traingle with you or play the opposite role as required.
This kind of thinking feeling pattern creates fear, and the need for constant reassurance that they are loved. But no matter how much they are told they are loved, they dont believe they are loveable.
Now I challenge myself. Its like resisting a tide of neediness, but I can do it. I am doing it right now.
I dont cut off altogether, like when he was down the other day I invited him to join me to eat, I had roasted a chicken, he had very little food in, I put a funny film on and we had a laugh. Then he went home.
I got to know a guy a few months ago who was in prison. I really like him, but looking back its because he is co-dependent. They can and usually are very ENGAGING people, fascinating in their neediness, can make them appear very charismatic.
My inner co-dependent zooms in on this trait - aha! someone to play out this endless game with - brilliant!!!
Took me a while to spot it, that I was at it again. But I did, and now I am withdrawing my investment. He is not. He has started whinging, literally at times. He hasnt got a cooker, he hasnt got a job or any prospects of one, he cant afford heating, his underwear is falling apart, he wishes he was back in prison etc etc etc. He was of course falsely accused, is innocent, and is a VICTIM of injustice!!!
My instinct is to RESCUE him, and quickly! I have a lovely home, with heating and a cooker, I have some M&S gift vouchers - we could get him some new underwear, I cant change the job situation, but I have some private income which helps, it would be cheaper to live together than apart, I wouldnt be so lonely and isolated, blah blah blah.
STOP! HALT! I say to myself, stop right there.
What would happen if I went ahead with the plan?
Sure as eggs are eggs we would end up living here in splendid co-dependent isolation together "us against the world" - the world being the persecuter of course. My agoraphobia would come back with a vengeance because he would encourage it, he would go out to the shops, let the little woman stay at home, protected by him. Isolated by him. Dependent on him to deal with the big bad world.
He would be dependent on me for a roof over his head and all the trappings of a well established home.
Happy as pigs in muck? I DONT THINK SO!!!
The big clue is - they very rarely disagree with you, they are such agreeable people. I am, I am very agreeable. We want so much to be loved and approved of, so we are Yes People, and People Pleasers even to our own detriment.
The other clue is, once you realise you are getting sucked into another co-dependent relationship, and you start to withdraw or backtrack - they start to raise the stakes (of neediness or even emotional blackmail). There may be no end to how far they will go, or if you are not aware and you are doing this to another - how far you/I will go to cling to them. See end of message for an extreme example ***
This is not a recipe for true happiness. Breaking the cycle and being strong is the way to grow.
Another good book is The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie. Also Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood.
I hope this rather long message has helped, if indeed this is what you are suffering with. It can be managed! Wholeness is perfection and its probably unachievable. But breaking unhealthy patterns which hinder our growth isnt impossible.
with love and light,
cloudberry
*** true example of extreme behaviour
The lame duck - Adrian who practically lived with me for a year wanted me to pander to him more and more one day and I was drained and fed up with it. He was acting increasingly like a whinging toddler, but he was 54 years old. I had work to do. Everytime he tried to hook into me I side-stepped the game, nicely but firmly.
Bear in mind this is before I read the book and was aware of what the cycle was and how damaging it is.
I disengaged and went into my office to do some work.
Fifteen minutes later he came shuffling into my office with a look of utter despair on his face and said "Samantha, I've messed myself and I didnt even know I had done it" sob sob.
I was horrified. Did he expect me to change his nappy now?
I simply said "well you had better go and clean yourself up then".
He ended up in a hostel, and got kicked out of there for attacking a female member of staff.
I had a lucky escape.
Last I heard he was on the streets. He tried to guilt trip me into taking him in "you wouldnt see me on the streets would you???"
And it was very hard, but I said "actually Adrian, yes, I would"
I dont know where he is now. But I dont have a thieving (he stole £100 from a friend of mine while he was dossing here), lying, ultra manipulative dependant living in my home.
And I am stronger and all the better for it!!!!
Fedup
Well-known member
Founding Member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,937
A very good post cloudberry .............. welldone you
cloudberry
Well-known member
Founding Member
Thanks Scott
It took quite a while to compose, but I felt your question deserved it.
I would send you the books but I use them almost every day. The Language of letting go is a day book - an entry for each day of the year, I usually read it in the morning, then write in my journal if I feel like it.
As for the man, yes, that he had been in prison was almost the first thing he told me after his name, which is great. I didnt have a problem with it and I still dont.
Its that that experience has traumatised him and continues to, and as a result his co-dependency is even stronger than it would be otherwise. It has turned the volume up if you like.
A fifteen year old girl he was teaching music to accused him of having sex with her. She won the case. He will be on the sex offenders register for the rest of his life, and is still on license until 2012. In other words he can go back to prison anytime until then. He is effectively serving the remainder of his sentence in the community.
Do I believe he is innocent? I dont know. I give him the benefit of the doubt as I will never know. But he could well be. False accusations from disgruntled and unhappy kids do happen. She was fifteen, hardly a baby.
I know two women who have known him for a long time, they are both confident in his innocence.
Its his immense neediness which puts me off. He even hangs around where I like to go for coffee if I havnt seen him for a few days. He can get obsessive with me. That scares me. I've been stalked before.
He has talked about rape. And he talks a lot about prison. He is very traumatised. I listen and try and be supportive. But I cant take his problems on as my own or I would suffer.
I need to concentrate on my own recovery. His moods drag me down.
He encourages me to drink more as it increases his chances of getting into my knickers. I need little encouragment to drink more, so thats unhealthy.
He is a very powerful man, used to be a councellor specialising in drug/drink problems.
So knows every button to push. Is very clever. And is very desperate. And seethes with sexual desire aimed right at me. Soemtimes I find him quite scarey. All my friends describe him as accutely intense.
So no, I more than anyone else give him support (and a futon and the use of my car, and food, and tobacco and whatever else). I just dont want to be his girlfriend.
It took quite a while to compose, but I felt your question deserved it.
I would send you the books but I use them almost every day. The Language of letting go is a day book - an entry for each day of the year, I usually read it in the morning, then write in my journal if I feel like it.
As for the man, yes, that he had been in prison was almost the first thing he told me after his name, which is great. I didnt have a problem with it and I still dont.
Its that that experience has traumatised him and continues to, and as a result his co-dependency is even stronger than it would be otherwise. It has turned the volume up if you like.
A fifteen year old girl he was teaching music to accused him of having sex with her. She won the case. He will be on the sex offenders register for the rest of his life, and is still on license until 2012. In other words he can go back to prison anytime until then. He is effectively serving the remainder of his sentence in the community.
Do I believe he is innocent? I dont know. I give him the benefit of the doubt as I will never know. But he could well be. False accusations from disgruntled and unhappy kids do happen. She was fifteen, hardly a baby.
I know two women who have known him for a long time, they are both confident in his innocence.
Its his immense neediness which puts me off. He even hangs around where I like to go for coffee if I havnt seen him for a few days. He can get obsessive with me. That scares me. I've been stalked before.
He has talked about rape. And he talks a lot about prison. He is very traumatised. I listen and try and be supportive. But I cant take his problems on as my own or I would suffer.
I need to concentrate on my own recovery. His moods drag me down.
He encourages me to drink more as it increases his chances of getting into my knickers. I need little encouragment to drink more, so thats unhealthy.
He is a very powerful man, used to be a councellor specialising in drug/drink problems.
So knows every button to push. Is very clever. And is very desperate. And seethes with sexual desire aimed right at me. Soemtimes I find him quite scarey. All my friends describe him as accutely intense.
So no, I more than anyone else give him support (and a futon and the use of my car, and food, and tobacco and whatever else). I just dont want to be his girlfriend.
thanks, that was the best reply ever
i`m sorry you went out with somone like that but he must of told you he went to prison.