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Denial that one is ill; rejecting one's voices

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John A

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Messages
206
Location
Launceston, Cornwall, United Kingdom
There are many who have leaned to cope with & overcome mental illness. But am I not right in saying that you don't think you have any 'illness'?
So asked one of the moderators of me, in a private message.

There is a class of voice hearers (sparsely represented here, I admit) that denies "mental illness" in the sense of any malaise that is endogenous. Rather these "targeted individuals" allege an exogenous cause of their hearing voices, "electromagnetic harassment", involving the deployment of "Voice-to-skull" (V2K) weapons.

The approach such people seem to adopt successfully, to cope with their affliction, involves the opposite of the "accepting" of their voices that Marius Romme and Sandra Escher advocate. They actively REJECT their voices, as well as all attempts to diagnose them psychiatrically.

Romme and Escher present statistical evidence that those who accept their voices tend to fare better. But perhaps it is not the acceptance of voices that does the good, and the rejection that does the harm. Pehaps it is that those with the sort of voice content it is quite pleasurable to accept tend to fare better than those with the sort of voice content nobody in their right mind would choose to accept. In that case, the statistical support for the advice to accept voices as a coping strategy, is flawed. The type of content (acceptable -v-unacceptable) and the choice between acceptance or rejection are not INDEPENDENT. One causes the other. Voice acceptance and good prognosis could be caused by a common cause, voice content acceptability, and voice rejection and poor prognosis could both be being caused by voice content unacceptability.

If the V2K thesis of the TIs is correct, just in their own cases, even the acceptance of acceptable voice content could be ill-advised. Pehaps the "good cop" has the same sinister agenda as the "bad cop". Insult can demoralise, but flattery can corrupt.

Is there any good evidence that admitting mental illness per se is a good predictor of good coping? If one defines psychosis (as one must) in terms of lack of insight, and uses subject denial of iatric diagnosis as a metric showing lack of insight, then, circularly, one arrives at the conclusion that denial of diagnosis is, by definition, poor coping, because the patient is still psychotic. But, on other metrics of how well one is coping, what a priori reason is there for predicting recovery from the admission of illness? That is no better than the policy of denying parole to those who claim to be wrongly convicted, a policy that leads to those who have died in prison being posthumously pardoned.

Anybody?
 
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cotswoldhedges

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
Do you not think that in order to be a "TI", you must've done something to action it? Either by association, or by involvement? You admit on your profile that you are an "activist".
One does not "become" a TI overnight, nor does one become a TI without proven evidence.

There are many reasons why some "hear voices" and why some do not. For some those voices are a comfort, a "guardian angel", or even their God talking to them directly.

Here in the US, all this talk about V2K "weaponry" is quite frankly, "old hat" (as the English are so fond of saying). Technology has moved on from all that now, which is the only reason why it has never been proved that it has been used on the "ordinary man in the street", and to be honest, your encouraging it is of no help to those who come here for support and advice.

The first hurdle of a diagnosis, is usually an admittance of a mental illness - So go jumping, man!

Quit using this, and other forums for your own agenda. So do yourself (and us) a favor and admit to yourself that you are ill, and only then will you be able to be a help and support to other alleged TI's.
 
J

John A

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Messages
206
Location
Launceston, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Do you not think that in order to be a "TI", you must've done something to action it?
No. Nor do I believe that rape victims are to blame, for dressing provocatively.

Quit using this, and other forums for your own agenda.
Why? You don't seem to see anything wrong in your using the forum for your "agenda".

... admit to yourself that you are ill ...
You don't know me. How do you know whether I'm "ill" or not?

Generally speaking, it's not good manners to try to respond to an invitation to discuss issues and facts with personal remarks against the person inviting the discussion, especially when you don't know the person concerned.
 
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cotswoldhedges

Active member
Joined
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Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
so what's the clothing of a rape victim gotta do with being a TI?

I ain't got an agenda. I came here for support and advice as a TI, and found YOU!

Come off it John, a simple Google search can find a load of stuff that you've written, and all about your failed attempt at becoming an MP - I ain't no genius, and I found it!

To be frank, a load of the stuff you've written shows you up to one real ill guy, even though in some of the stuff you write that you ain't. So why not go and check out if there's help for you out there?

What's up? Frightened of what you might find out about yourself?
 
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cotswoldhedges

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Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
Oh and before you "go off on one" (as my UK friend would say), remember this is an OPEN forum - anyone can reply to messages/subjects/opinions here.
 
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cotswoldhedges

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
Right, ok.
I have now spend nearly all day reading and re-reading every "inth" of what you have written and is freely available on the WWW.

And to be real honest with you, you wouldn't know a real TI, if they came up to you and bit you on the @r$e.

All this "cloak and dagger" stuff is really not being much help to those of us who are TI's on a DAILY BASIS, if anything you and your ilk are actually DISCREDITTING us, rather than SUPPORTING & ENCORAGING us.

So wake up and smell the coffee Man. You is ill, get help.
 
J

John A

Well-known member
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Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
206
Location
Launceston, Cornwall, United Kingdom
Believe you me, I am as disappointed as anyone that such a large percentage of the content in Hearing Voices is content that I put there myself. You cannot really blame me for this. There was a gap of two weeks between my last post before today, and the posting I made today when I received a response.

I am happy to discuss anything worthwhile and of substance that it'll help anybody lurking to discuss, if there is anybody lurking. What I cannot be bothered to do is to dignify with a reply some complete stranger's rant expressing dislike of me as an individual, because I express ideas, or present information, that makes the stranger feel angry.

I don't enjoy hearing voices, but there is nothing anybody I know can do to stop this daily occurrence that he or she is likely to do soon. I have found contentment, and earned respect in my two communities (the town where I live, and the international community of alleged targeted individuals) , in real life (as opposed to here, in bad-tempered cyberspace). I am happier, and nicer to know, nowadays, making the best of a bad job as I am, than I was before I became targeted (or "ill", if anybody insists on putting it that way.)
 
J

John A

Well-known member
Founding Member
Joined
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Messages
206
Location
Launceston, Cornwall, United Kingdom
I have now spend nearly all day reading and re-reading every "inth" of what you have written and is freely available on the WWW.
Why???????

All this "cloak and dagger" stuff
What "'cloak and dagger' stuff"? My life is, as you've discovered, an open book. I am using my real name here, for instance. My phone number is here, and my home address. There's nothing "cloak and dagger" about me. What you see is what you get.
 
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cotswoldhedges

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
Why???????
Ha ha, if ya were a real TI, ya wouldn't have to ask that question
:LOL:
I just returned home to Houston, after staying in the UK near a very dear friend (another true TI) in a little place near Camberley. I actually visited Fleet, with the intention of meeting you, but I got to the shop (the bigger one, not the confusing little one) and one of my voices told me not to go inside. I tend to listen to this voice, as it always warns me of danger, and has kept me safe thus far. Then I came home with the question in my mind "why not?" and began to check out everything.

.....My life is, as you've discovered, an open book. I am using my real name here, for instance. My phone number is here, and my home address...........
Yeah, I noticed that. Same elsewhere too. So why? Are you trying to convince yourself that you are a TI? Or opening yourself up to the PTB cos you want to be a TI - you want that excuse for your undiagnosed illness.

It ain't no fun Bro, being followed everwhere, being filmed, taped, bugged. your life aint your own, you gotta be careful of who you meet, (your actions could make them a TI too), what you do.

My voices are complete separate from my being a TI, I'm a Spirit-Filled Christian, and I believe my voices are my God, and His Angels watching over me. I only began to audibly hear Him, after I got baptised in the Spirit.

So where do you think your voices came from then?
 
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cotswoldhedges

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
..............
What you see is what you get.
What I see, is one real sick guy. What I see is one real sick guy with delusional ideals. I don't see a fellow TI, and believe me, over the years I've learned how to recognise one even before they come up and bite me in the butt!

I see a real sad, lonely, unloved, Christian guy. And that's real sad, man.

What's even more sad, is that this Christian guy thinks he's above the God he purports to believe in, follow, listen to. You remind me of the guy who asked God to save him, and God sent a helicopter, then a boat, then....complained to God that He wouldn't save him!
 
C

cotswoldhedges

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
Believe you me, I am as disappointed as anyone that such a large percentage of the content in Hearing Voices is content that I put there myself. You cannot really blame me for this. There was a gap of two weeks between my last post before today, and the posting I made today when I received a response.
Being a TI is not (so far) a MH issue. I wondered why the subject was here in the first place! But hearing voices is a MH issue. Most Ti's ( or those who believe they are TI's) would not come to a MH forum to find other TI's. There appears very little support for those who believe they are TI's out there on the www.

I am happy to discuss anything worthwhile and of substance that it'll help anybody lurking to discuss, if there is anybody lurking.
Ha ha, I ain't lurking Pal, I'm in your face!
What I cannot be bothered to do is to dignify with a reply some complete stranger's rant expressing dislike of me as an individual, because I express ideas, or present information, that makes the stranger feel angry.
ha ha, I ain't no stranger Brother, I'm a fellow SFBeliever in Christ Jesus. Who just happens to be a TI. Who just happened to come to you for the support which you (here and elsewhere) purport to be providing for people like me. Boy was I wrong! Big Time!


I don't enjoy hearing voices, but there is nothing anybody I know can do to stop this daily occurrence that he or she is likely to do soon.
I love hearing my voices! They are comforting presence for me. They warn me of impending danger, and encourage me in my Walk. I don't want them to stop any day soon.

I have found contentment, and earned respect in my two communities (the town where I live, and the international community of alleged targeted individuals) , in real life (as opposed to here, in bad-tempered cyberspace).
Like I said previously, WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, before they chuck it in your lap! When I asked anyone about you (when I was over your way) all I got was "oh him", and the eyes rolled upwards. If this is the respect of which you write, you can shove it up...... . They is humoring you Pal.
I am happier, and nicer to know, nowadays, making the best of a bad job as I am, than I was before I became targeted (or "ill", if anybody insists on putting it that way.)
Just because you are ill, does not make you a TI.
Nicer to know? Happier? Ask someone who has known you for over 15 years that question, but don't be surprised at the answer.
 
J

John A

Well-known member
Founding Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
206
Location
Launceston, Cornwall, United Kingdom
I'm in your face!
I do not wish to conduct in public the sort of robust dialogue (to put it politely) that you seem to want to conduct with with me. I do not think that that would be edifying. If you wish to continue this, please have the courtesy to email me privately. If you insist on everybody else reading what I would say to you, and to you alone (in obedience to Matthew 18:15, which you ought to obey too), you would be at liberty to post my emails to you into any forum you chose. I wouldn't encourage you to do so, but I wouldn't be able to prevent you either.
 
C

cotswoldhedges

Active member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Houston Tx, USA
I do not wish to conduct in public the sort of robust dialogue ......
Oh Wow! All of a sudden you don't wanna be as open as you profess to be?

And regarding Matthew 18: 15, I ain't gotta problem with you John, what I gotta problem with is who or what personality I am debating with.

What? Can't take the heat? :rolleyes:
 
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F

firemonkee57

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
8,222
Is there any good evidence that admitting mental illness per se is a good predictor of good coping? If one defines psychosis (as one must) in terms of lack of insight, and uses subject denial of iatric diagnosis as a metric showing lack of insight, then, circularly, one arrives at the conclusion that denial of diagnosis is, by definition, poor coping, because the patient is still psychotic. But, on other metrics of how well one is coping, what a priori reason is there for predicting recovery from the admission of illness? That is no better than the policy of denying parole to those who claim to be wrongly convicted, a policy that leads to those who have died in prison being posthumously pardoned.

Anybody?
An admission of illness would make a person more likely to engage in treatment ,whether mainstream or otherwise, with the potential of improving the illness and in some cases bringing about 'recovery'.

Psychosis contrary to common belief doesn't always entail complete lack of insight.

delusions.png

http://tinyurl.com/ceu8yg
 
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