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Cross Roads

E

ettiene.dyer

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I am at a serious cross roads and I have to make a choice. I have been putting off this choice for many years. Essentially, the choice is to either no longer participate in mental health forums or chat rooms or completely change the way I interact in such environments.


I am at a level of intellectual knowledge in my understanding of psychosis and mental health in general that is far from the mainstream. When I attempt to put in writing or vocalize what I know, I am met with nothing but opposition and arguments. It has caused me to do one of two things: 1) Press the evidence even further 2) Back down to avoid stress and conflict -- often it is number 2. Something has got change.


[h=2]Drugs[/h] Essentially I know enough about the drugs, especially for psychosis (the anti-psychotic variety) that to tell people to get on them is unconscionable to me. At the same time I know of treatments, a variety of them, that tend to have better results or comparable results with out drugs. If I even mention the dangers of the drugs in a forum or chat room starts a conflict with the Moderators or Operators of such sites which usually leads to a ban. Anyone that can read the inserts that come with these drugs, should know how dangerous they are. But there is more to it than that – its what they don't reveal that is worse. Brain and nervous system damage, shorter life expectancy, addiction, withdrawal, organ failure, severe illnesses such as diabetes, and instant death in some cases. To not discuss this is essentially standing around while people are murdered and maimed.

[h=2]Pseudo Science[/h] The above is just a part of the problem. There is a whole host of problems with the system. First and foremost is the erroneous idea that Psychiatrists are doctors. Yes they may have a Doctorate degree and years of schooling, but in practice MOST are nothing short of a drug dealers, that pour drugs they know little about, into people they know even less about. Additionally, the main Bible of psychiatry is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM) which is the result of not laboratory research or pathology, but the “disease” \ diagnosis criteria is voted upon by the members of the American Psychiatric Association (APA). Who has ever heard of the the concept of a disease, its symptoms, and diagnostic criteria being voted upon ? It ONLY happens in meetings for the DSM. Not discussing these facts, is also essentially standing around while pseudo science and quackery over takes and controls the lives of vulnerable people.


[h=2]Alternatives[/h] What makes all of this worse is the fact that there are viable alternatives, that are completely dismissed and vehemently opposed by the mainstream mental “health” community and its parrots (those that don't really investigate, just repeat mantras). Talk therapies such as those revealed in the book 'Rethinking Madness' (ie. Existential Therapy, Trans-Personal Therapy) for those that their psychosis was caused by or includes some mystical or psycho\social context. Orthomolecular Therapy, which is a nutritional approach to resolving psychosis for those the cause was primarily created by nutritional (vitamin or mineral) imbalances. Some websites give paltry or pathetic attention to nutrition and shoot down Orthomolecular Therapy. There are other therapies available as well for different causes that have good results, such as Dialectic talk therapy and Open Dialogue talk\social therapy as it is practiced in the Lapland of Finland (which has a very, very high recovery rate with none to little use of drugs). In fact, the further I have researched the more the picture is becoming clear, the Medical Model is a failure, not only for the people who suffer, but for their care givers, and the professionals in the mental health profession. To know these real and rational approaches to resolving psychosis (and other disorders) and not talk about them in chat rooms or forums, is being silent about solutions that could create great change in peoples lives.


[h=2]Stigmatic Name Calling System[/h] The other aspect that I want to talk about is what happens when a PERSON gets in the system. First, they are tagged with labels like “Schizophrenic” (you don't call cancer patients “Cancer” do you?). This label starts out as name calling and when the person suffering is broken down enough they start calling themselves the name. The other name call they give us and is bandied around is “psychotic”, makes one wonder about the drugs they call “anti-psychotic”? So there is a passive-aggressive stigma which results in name calling that starts with psychiatry and is extended out to the mass media and general public. Its obvious. Some suffers are so brainwashed they think the name call (diagnosis) is more important that symptom resolution. Most psychiatrist over medicate their patients, in attempt to give them symptom relief. The net effect however is just like any drug, you have side effects such as sedation, insomnia, akinthesia, disconnected thoughts, etc. What little ability some may have to work is further restricted by the drugs themselves. Without real resolution of the psychosis or because of the debilitating effects of the side effects, many schizophrenics end up being supported by their families or the government, which ensures poverty for most. This in turn engenders a sense of worthlessness and failure that can lead to illegal or illicit drug use or suicide. So standing around and saying nothing about any of this is tantamount to being in Germany circa the 1930s, with all the name calling, the filling of ghettos, and destruction of lives.


[h=2]Drug Culture[/h] Then there is the drug culture of psychiatry, everything has to have a pill, even if the pill is off label and wasn't created for the problem, it will do. Sessions after initial assessment with a psychiatrist, usually last 15 minutes (at $250 a session at the very least in private practice), with some conversation about how you are doing and then the sales pitch about a drug that might “help”. In a society where we have a “war on drugs”, drug companies and drugs are one of the biggest money making schemes ever invented – what complete and total HYPOCRISY. No wonder there is such violent opposition to anything that even suggests an alternative treatment or resolution. What would most psychiatrist do if the did not have drugs to sell you in a session? Probably would be out of work or have to work? Not talking about this aspect in a mental health community is like watching a punk in the neighborhood sell shit to kids and say nothing about it as he rides around in Mercedes to his McMansion and the kids have crappy cars, living from disability check to disability check, with no future but addiction and dependency.


[h=2]Parroting[/h] What I find most striking, is how effective the psychiatric \ pharmaceutical propaganda is. How you can take a person that is opposed to drugs (like I was), give him a disorder (socially and culturally induced like mine) so he suffers, send him to psychiatrist, make him dependent on drugs, and for the next 8 years he becomes a parrot for drug companies and psychiatry in mental health forums and chat rooms (LIKE I WAS). Thats really effective, creating an unpaid sales force thats dependent on your product. Genius. Not talking about this in a chat room or forum is like watching Tom Cruise peddle his Scientology crap and not laughing it up with your friends.

[h=2]Alone In The Wilderness[/h] I will tell you, I feel real alone in most mental “health” chat rooms and forums. There are so many parrots out there, that just repeat what they are told and do no research and take no chances. A lot of very frightened people, so afraid of doing their homework and growing up. So afraid of pain and suffering they will use any means necessary. How they attack me on any level they can! It's not only in so called “mental health” chat rooms that I feel alone, I feel alone when I go to the mainstream psychiatrist, social worker, talk “therapist”. Often I feel like I am standing in front of my judge, jury and executioner. Just another arm of the broken and steadily more an inverted-totalitarian state, that can incarcerate me, drug me into compliance, or refuse me treatment, based upon what I tell them. So called mental “health” chat rooms and forums are no different really, they argue and shut me up, ban me, edit my words, delete my posts, lock posts from comment. Yeah its getting real totalitarian everywhere. Expressing incorrect thoughts, brings out the thought police. They tell you PROVE everything you say, like the scientific method APA citation should be applied to every discussion that is contrary to their view point. Their screaming for proof just proves to me they have not researched and they are essentially in a fall back and comfortable position of following the lemmings off the cliff and taking down with them as many as possible.


When everything we do has some sort of corporation or group (other than WE THE PEOPLE) attached to it that makes the rules, when the tyranny of the majority is dictated by the minority – where is the freedom of press or speech? Where is freedom of choice -- is it only between which drug, which corporate product?


I am at a cross roads --Fight or Flight? What do you think I will do?
 
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Kerome

Kerome

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I think you have to pick your battles, and use the most moderate and reasonable language you can. The problem is you are arguing against established authority, ie the psychiatric establishment, which means people will use any excuse to call you a radical or a loony. But if you stay moderate and reasonable and don't lose your temper, there are situations where you can win the argument. On the whole I agree with a lot of your points, there is a lot of truth in it.

Luckily from a personal point of view we have some control over whether to take medication or not. So at least you personally are not trapped in the chemical straight jacket.
 
blueflames

blueflames

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Hi and welcome to you

I think you will like it here. There are a lot of people with differing views on medication and treatment methods, and it can spark some interesting debates. The mods are pretty fair, and as long as it doesn't turn personal, the threads can go on for weeks! Often filled with very interesting people and views.

Maybe stick around and have a look?? even start a thread if you feel like it :)

xx
 
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Per Ardua Ad Astra

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Hi ettiene.dyer

This is a great thread, and my own thinking around psychiatry and pharma, is similar to your own :) :)
 
SarahD

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Hi Ettiene, I agree with you.

This forum allows people to express views that differ from the mainstream.

On another forum I saw one person start a thread saying he wanted to come off drugs. He got a response from a moderator saying he was unlikely to get any replies as "this forum is pro treatment and medication".

Unfortunately for many people the only treatment they are offered is drugs.

I am also always surprised how many people seem to become attached to their 'label' and cling to the security of drugs. Must work better for them than for me. I have only had harm from the drugs. But I think you are right, there is a kind of brainwashing that goes along with the whole thing and even a good psychiatrist seems to believe wholeheartedly in the disease and drug model. I do think some people are helped by drugs. Many harmed by them. Can't understand how drugs that can cause such terrible harm are used so easily,and so widely.
 
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M

Meredithmay

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Keep fighting because you know far more than the people who are treating you. I agree with what you are saying. Labels and treatments are so powerful and undermine us as individuals.

I am not sure about which forum you were on before that regulated free speech but I hope you feel you can speak freely on here and that people will take on board what you are saying. Best wishes, Mm
 
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ettiene.dyer

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I am not sure about which forum you were on before that regulated free speech but I hope you feel you can speak freely on here and that people will take on board what you are saying. Best wishes, Mm
The forums at schizophrenia.com was where I had the most violent opposition to these issues. When myself or others bring up alternative therapies, or oppose the bullshit of psychiatry, it is met by a wrecking crew of parrots and moderators that oppose it and will lock threads, delete posts, and even edit posts. Anyone new that comes there is scooped but the parrots and moderators that tell to see pdoc and get drugs as soon as possible. Unpaid sales force.
 
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ramboghettouk

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you won't be popular on schitzephrenia, com for pushing anti meds arguments ant more than i'm popular here for my pro meds arguments as some see them

whatever the truth of arguments theres a high risk that if i come off meds i'll end up in hospital which is why i find anti med arguments unpaletable
 

cpuusage

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I am at a serious cross roads and I have to make a choice. I have been putting off this choice for many years. Essentially, the choice is to either no longer participate in mental health forums or chat rooms or completely change the way I interact in such environments.


I am at a level of intellectual knowledge in my understanding of psychosis and mental health in general that is far from the mainstream. When I attempt to put in writing or vocalize what I know, I am met with nothing but opposition and arguments. It has caused me to do one of two things: 1) Press the evidence even further 2) Back down to avoid stress and conflict -- often it is number 2. Something has got change.
i largely agree with you. Thing is this isn't just the state of play with mental health, it's across the board within many of the systems of this World. Without a longer analysis, i think it boils down to 2 fundamental questions -

1. How can 'you/we' change the system?

& similarly -

2. Is there any point in fighting the system?

The effect on me, in part is that i concede, many eventually do - in part what people experience are mental illnesses, in part it's a problem with the brain/biology/physiology & it can be treated with drugs. To be fair i think there is some truth in it. Regardless of exact truths to everything - that is the dominant Zeitgeist & it's not changing - we're headed to a near total drugged population - that is what the controllers want, but it's also what the masses want.
 
Kerome

Kerome

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Regardless of exact truths to everything - that is the dominant Zeitgeist & it's not changing - we're headed to a near total drugged population - that is what the controllers want, but it's also what the masses want.
That's a scary vision CPU. I'm not sure whether it's so much what people want or whether we are sleepwalking towards it, but you may well be right. It's a bit Brave New World where everyone is taking their soma, but at what price? I think people are losing a bit of their birthright, that the drugs, ad's etc especially, are helping people fit into the modern world at the cost of not listening to their soul, which is telling them the current situation is not good for them.

Ultimately I think the art of living has a lot to do with listening to your soul, heart, energy... That part of yourself that indicates how happy and how fulfilled you are. It's a kind of inner compass, and with psychiatric medicine what you are doing is distorting the direction it points in. You end up forcing it to point in some direction dictated by societies memes, the "larger concerns" that society tries to install in you. But in the end it's society doing some damage, forcing itself on the original genuine core of who and what we are.
 
Mark_01

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Without the pills and treatment of modern medicine, many of us here would be dead.
 
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